AnzacPT

i thought i should make another point... here is what it says in EVERY piece of Microsoft software: "Important: You must accept the ENCLOSED License Agreement before you can use this product. If you do not accept the terms of the License Agreement, you should promply return the product for a refund." and before anyone starts yelling that Microsoft refunds people, they mean BEFORE you open the product or even READ the enclosed License Agreement! which is equivalent of returning an UNOPENED software to the store. no problem there. but you receive a download software, it´s another story... it´s like saying that you agree the License Agreement BEFORE you make the download... i find it much worse having to activate Microsoft products and if you are someone, like me, that keeps formatting your system, then you also keep phoning Microsoft to activate your product and saying every time that "yes, i have formated my system AGAIN... can you please give me my activation key?" and for someone who said that there will always be flight sims, that it true... there will ALWAYS be flight sims, but that doesn´t mean that there will not be times that there will be no flight sims until someone makes one... and i think most of us should consider that the sim market IS changing... what alternatives do we HAVE, right now? NONE. Falcon 4 is legally impeded to go any further and really is long in the tooth... Fighter Ops is basically stopped and will take years to come out if and when they start working on it again... Thunder Works, "Jet Thunder" is under development, but even they say that it will take time to be ready, and also state that normal distribution channels will not be used, just like ED with FC... it also doesn´t have the F-16, F-18, etc... so a lot of people will keep waiting... and we also have X-plane that is also developed like ED are doing... sold on a web page and costs 50$... and Micro-Flight using the same methods... Think...

not paranoia at all :) basic consumer rights. I have faith that ED are going to release something good, BUT.. it's not a fool's faith. I can see in this thread others who share the same concern. If there will be a way to get a refund then there's nothing to lose. Not to mention the dubious legality of selling something without possiblity of refund. basic consumer rights in WHAT country? as i have stated, in Portugal there are no refunds after you open the plastic wrapping of the game...

in reply to Shark that on the Ubi forum suggested that ED join with Ubi to distribute FC, i thought it was relevant to post this here: "if it was distributed by Ubi, i might NOT buy FC... i don´t understand what people here are thinking... there are NO software returns in Portugal after you open the plastic wrapping... that means you could copy the game and get a refund... i have bought several games that were PURE C*R*A*P and had to bite the bullet... one fine example... "Line of Sight: Vietnam" by Atari... incredible waste of money!!! to bad... oh.. and it costed as much as FC... get serious.. also i tend to buy what WERE great games of yesterday only to find that they do not work in newer systems and/or operating systems... thought these come quite cheap (around 5$), i´ve bought several were this has happened... and several little jewels that i can play too... why would ED send an easily copiable CD or download to refund later? 5 minutes later it would be on every major server... it can still happen if one that buys makes that... but i truly hope it doesn´t..."

Which is why I want further information, don't try to be clever. If it isn't functional on a system where a claim has been made it is, the developers should respect that a refund is necessary. Obviously you can't send back your download. A refund is means reimbursement, not an exchange. Think you're misunderstand what I'm saying. Game developers, EA games/Valve/ED/ect ect do not give refunds on games....period.You may return a defective product for the same product but no refunds on an open product in which this case a dload is opened goods. Weather or not it runs on your rig is not part of the eula. Game Devs cant controll what kind of crap you put on your pc or if you built your pc who is to say its the game and not your hardware at fault? If you have ever returned any game and got your money back then I'm sure the Best Buy or Walmart or where ever you got the game ended up biting the $30.00-$50.00. Or, the employee of named store got it taken out of his next paycheck for giving your money back. This is just how the gamming business works. Been this way ever since I can remember. If we could all take back games weather they work or not. Developers would make no money with todays technology of CD/DVD burners. irrelevant. changing the method of sale does not entitle any party to circumvent law. if the developer is selling the product, they also become the retailer, and will be covered by any applicable laws. is all of this really relevant? i mean... i´m all for consumer rights... but sometimes it seems that there is a death wish in this community... when there are no flight sim´s for us to play with... be happy because you still have your consumer rights intact... were we talking about a FPS... i would understand all of this... but we are not... we are talking about one of last flight sim developers... let´s get serious... if you don´t want to get FC, don´t. if you want to... then by all means get it... if i can support ED by paying them more, i will... i paid 40$US to Ian (IJ) on CougarWorld for the replacement buttons for my Cougar... he asked for a lot less, but people like him and ED that work for our amusement deserve to be compensated...

i hope ED and Nic Cole make another version of the manual should it become necessary... i bought the first one and would gladly buy the second... also... maybe Nic can tell us how many manuals DID he sell? i would sure consider that as an indicator for how many people would buy FC... :)

i just posted this on the Ubi Lock On Forum and i thought i should post it here too... "35 bucks of the US of A is a true... BARGAIN! first: COD:UO costs here around 39 Euros.. equivelent to 50$US... this can vary slightly depending where it is bought, but... point made. second: though i like COD very much and MOHAA also enough to make me buy all the games and expansions with a total investiment of around 85 Euros (110$US) for COD and another 130 Euros (170$US) for MOHAA, including Pacific Assault, they are still games that are immensely enjoyable WHILE i don´t get to the end and from then on it´s basically multiplayer with friends. third: i was expecting more for FC. i was expecting something around 50$US... and truly.. ED deserves it... fourth: FS2004 costs 80 Euros... 100$US. each add on or plane costs more than LO-MAC... let´s get serious..." the one thing i want to add is... i hope Mastercard is also an option... that´s the card i have... otherwise, i´ll have to use my wife´s... and we all know that´s not a good idea...

Hello Wags... there might be several reasons... i can point some... a) internet traffic is usually expensive... at least when we are talking about almost 250MB download... unless you have a higher priced internet connection without traffic limits... so it would make sense to order the CD instead of being hours making a download and in the next cable modem/adsl provider the invoice has grown bigger... b) there are going to be people even with broadband that due to network problems/limitations/distance are going to download veryyyyy slowly... c) there might still be people without internet connection or with dialup connections which for the case in hand is basically the same... i am sure that many forum contributors, contribute most from their work place and computer, just like me... :) d) the final and who knows the most important one... psychological effect.. i don´t know if having to record a lot of CD´s is a problem to ED... maybe you are afraid of that... i, for one, prefer to order a CD... for lazyness, pride and probably my psychiatrist can fill in the rest... i don´t know.. maybe it has something to do with the feeling of paying and GETTING something... when i bought my TrackIR, along with it came a Voice Buddy and some game editions... i also had a choice... Download or Physical CD... even though i had to pay delivery charges... i chose physical CD. and in a way, my subconscious tells me that i might be helping ED to sell CD versions, when in reality i am probably giving them a boatload of work... maybe there are more people here that feel the same...

and i am sure it can´t be that hard to make work both ways... :)

subject is clear then. pardon my confusion. there was nothing on the 1.02 mentioning this. i´ll drop the subject then, with only a small suggestion: maybe in 1.1 FC can this be made an option? so that it can be choosed to be "on" or "off"... Thank you for everyone´s attention and to all that took the trouble to reply me. i´ll finish by saying why i tried so hard to point this out... it is not usual for a gamer in Portugal to have a Joystick unless he his already a simmer. trying to show lomac to my friends to see if they would buy also and having to buy a joystick to see if they liked the game was hard. but point well taken and subject dropped.

Thank you, Dmut for having the trouble to check... that what i was talking about... :D Thank you again...

why do you think so? I know people who extremely good in flying with keybord, but only in current setup, where pitch works as trimming. i think so... because the LOMAC documentation leads one to be mistaken... new people to the game WILL be confused... i´ve seen it happen... anyway... i just posted this because i though it was such a small correction that it might be made with or without FC 1.1 with a small "hotfix"... but i´m not willing to make an argument out of this... what is reasonable to me may not be to others... so... if there´s no interest, i´ll drop the subject...

The LOMAC Documentation clearly states that the arrow keys are used to control the AC. how can it be considered a bug before 1.02 then? again i admit i never played Flanker, but still i find it odd that only the pitch keys are working as trim keys and the roll keys are not... very, very odd... also even though in the Readme file that came with 1.02 patch there was mention that the ENTER key was now used to fire missiles and the SPACEBAR for cannon (or vice-versa) and there was no mention that the pitch keys were now used as trim keys. and nowhere in Ubisoft´s forum i have seen requests to make it "like Flanker"... on the contrary, i´ve seen requests for this issue to be corrected. on the past weeks i´ve noticed that there quite a few people that just got LOMAC on the forums... (UBI´s forums) and i had already told to several that either they stay with 1.00 or they have to buy a joystick... nothing wrong with having to buy a joystick... the problem is... if they are not warned about this... that they CANNOT use the keyboard to play at all... they might be confused and ditch the game... i know i would...

fair enough... it´s your call... can´t argue with that... however, if one day i have to send my Cougar to warranty service or to be modded, the only game i won´t play is going to be LOMAC... also, if i happen to take the computer with me to play LAN games with friends, LOMAC is also not gonna happen...

that is not the point... it may suck to you, but others may not think that way.... right? each person is entitled to it´s own opinion... IMO... it´s not like i´m asking for something to be ADDED to the sim... just a small correction... after all, when launched, it was working... right? should not be that hard to correct it... and IF, one day, you´re caught without your joystick, for whatever reason, you´ll be glad that you can play LOMAC with the keys...

hummmmm... not wanting to start an argument here, even more because i haven´t played Flanker... however, BEFORE 1.02 the arrow keys were used to control the AC. it was even stated in the manual and nowhere it was said that it was mandatory to have a joystick to play the game. the trim control was something like CTRL+arrow key if i am not mistaken... on Ubisoft´s Lock On Forum, at the time of 1.02 release, this was discussed and it was recognized as a bug. i don´t know how flanker worked but i find it very strange to have the pitch keys working as trim and the roll keys not. on 1.02, if you don´t have a joystick, LOMAC is unplayable. not pretty...

this may not be the biggest issue in the world but.... it should be sooooo simple to solve... that it is amazing that months have come by and it´s still not solved. it is discussed in detail here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=49610606&m=294106451 and here are the important parts of that thread: faasie posted Sat January 17 2004 07:21 When you patch the game you are only able to fly with a joystick, because the arrowkeys are only useable for trimming, I do not like this. I have a crappy joystick and I love playing with arrow keys. Online I shoot down guys that are using joysticks and I do not feel handicapped by using arrow keys... so why did they pull it out of the game?? And I want it back on, I'm not going to buy a new joystick so I'm forced to sell the game to someone else when they don't put it back in. ----------------- ***** --------------------- AnzacPT posted Sun December 26 2004 17:38 he is right... it´s a known bug that came out with 1.02... don´t like it either... 1st - i personally travel with the computer a lot, so i may not have the joystick with me... 2nd - it WAS working before 1.02 and it´s such a small correction that i don´t think that it´s not possible to use it again... 3rd - not everyone has or likes using a joystick... a lot of people playing LOMAC from scratch will become confused why the controls don´t work and not knowing that it´s a bug will leave the game. i´ve warned several begginers already... i´ve only bought my HOTAS after playing LOMAC... had i tried LOMAC after 1.02 came out and didn´t know what was happening, i would very probably ditch the game forever... this is a serious question on a matter that can be EASILY fixed. a small patch like the SFP1 F4J hotfix would do it... Posts: 430 | Registered: Mon June 07 2004 END QUOTE. thank you for your attention.

i hope you can get your problem solved... if i could help you, i would...

i would appreciate a credit card option too... i´m not very fond of using paypal... but for 1.1 if i don´t have alternatives... i´ll make an exception...