Max Mak

Emergency mission to protect own aircraft carrier from anti-ship strike by Russia Tu-22M3 group.

A short single player mission to protect the aircraft carrier from anti-ship strike. The AI F/A-18C can change to client if you want to play it online. F18 anti-missile task4-7.miz

Undesignate button magically lock the own missiles when multiple missiles launch Bug report for the recent patch DCS 2.7.16.28111 Open Beta. After the in depth testing of how the own missiles being mistakenly designated when multiple missiles launch in the current F/A-18C module, I got some new findings for the bug. In order to keep the consistency of every replicated tests. I standardised the procedures for every replicate tests: 1. Hold attitude and auto throttle just at mission start 2. Select AIM120C, then TWS mode (variable parameters in each replicate) or RWS mode 3. Shoot first missile at time 04:01:00, and complete final shot at 04:01:12 4. Press undesignate button at 04:01:13 5. Screen capture at 04:01:15 All the following tracks I shows are using 20 degree 2 bar scan for TWS mode; 140 degree 2 bar scan for RWS mode, 4 seconds AIM120 radar profile age out time. I actually tested all the combinations with these settings, also in RAID mode, or even not in EXP option, but the final outcomes are all the same so I only provide the 4 most representative tracks here. Test 1 In the first test I use TWS auto and press the undesignate button to cycle the contact between AIM120 launch. The final press of undesignate button at 04:01:13 (step 4) resulted in own missile lock. Noted that the radar elevation is going up, should be weird because all my contacts (IL-76MD) are co-attitude with me, the missile I locked is already going up, I shouldn’t have chance to even tracking it. Test 2 After Test 1 I think the problem should solved if I use TWS MAN, as the TWS will not change the antenna elevation settings with contact position, and thus I should have no chance for looking up like Test 1. Like Test 1 I also use the undesignate button to cycle the contacts between launches. Interestingly, I also lock the same missile as in Test 1 after the final press of undesignate button at 04:01:13. Noted that the lock is clearly outside my radar elevation scan zone if you compare the radar elevation setting that the TWS auto bring me in Test 1. Test 3 Then, I do think that the problem should be the undesignate button. Therefore I do the same test again, and this time I use TDC depress button to cycle the contacts instead of using the undesignate button, but I also press the undesignate button once at 04:01:13 as I did in Test 1 and 2. This time I don’t lock my own missile anymore even I’m in TWS auto. Own missiles still clearly defined by MCs as a triangle symbol. Test 4 Finally, I also try these AIM120 launch procedures once not in TWS mode but in RWS mode, using the undesignate button to cycle the contacts, and again the finale press of undesignate button at 04:01:13 still locking up the same own missile. Thus, it clearly shows that the problem is on the undesignate button itself and not related to the scan radar. Conclusion 1. Own missiles lock problem is not radar related (TWS rankings, gating etc.) 2. Undesignated button can do a magical lock on own missiles even without a contact track from own radar. 3. Once the own missiles being locked, all the track files on the tracking radar will be lost. This will screw up your multiple missiles launch on multiple targets. I know that the issue can be solved by the user end that not to frequently press the undesignate button to cycle the contacts. However, it is clearly a bug and need to be fixed, you won't see the TMS right will do this weird behaviour when cycling the contacts during mulriple missiles launch in F-16 module. I think the problem should be related to the MCs memory being erased by undesignate button. I don’t know, but I hope that the tests I did can provide a direction for you the ED team to fix the problem. Thanks for reading this long paragraph. Best wish, Max Mak Test 1 TWS Auto undesignate 20220729.trk Test 2 TWS MAN undesignate 20220729.trk Test 3 TWS TDC depress 20220729.trk Test 4 RWS undesignate 20220729.trk

Yes, I’m just saying that in whatever setting you need 5 sweeps now, so narrowing the scan zone will get faster for those 5 sweeps to build the track. That’s why I anticipated that in 140 degree 6 bar scan will now take forever to make enough 5 sweeps to build a track.

Yes, now the 5 sweeps are the minimum counts before the track can be generated. Thus, you can only narrow the scan zone to make it becomes faster to build a track. I think it will take forever to build a track if you use 140 degree and 6 bar scan. Don’t know if this 5 sweeps rule also applied to other ED modules like F-16, I will give it a test soon.

I do think the big change in this patch is that the generation of track files required 5 sweeps hits of a brick and turn into HAFU. I actually take control your track files in your last attemp for a Su-33 within 20nm. In this moment you just move too down for your Antenna elevation control, it didn't got the consistent 5 sweeps hit to build the track files. Therefore, I move the radar elevation up a little bit and finally got a consistent 5 sweeps hit to generate the track files. Then, I immediately change to TWS auto to maintain the scan zone focus on the targrt and shoot him a AIM120C and he is hitted. I attached my corresponding track file and tacview file in regard to the video above here for your reference. 123 re-fly by MAX 20220726.trk Tacview-20220726-013918-DCS-123 re-fly by MAX 20220726.trk.zip.acmi

Tested the multiple locks in TWS mode in the recent build (DCS 2.7.16.27869 Open Beta), the ghost contact issue is fixed, just the radar can still sometimes locking the own missies, but it is another issue that should be discussed in other thread.

Yes, it should be a problem, I'm just waiting their upcoming patch to see if it was fixed. It's difficult to get the passion back to F/A-18C currently with the bugs. Just every updates I'm waiting for a fix, once I saw it was fixed I was excited and I immediately test it again and found that it didn't fixed. Then, I reported once again, not acknowledged and post merged to the original post, that's it. Okay, I go for a new thread to do several tests exactly the same again to show it didn't fixed. Therefore, I know your feeling well, sometimes we have to put more efforts to make things work, just be patient and don't give up, once it is a bug, it always a bug. Keep reporting until it was eventually fixed.

You’re right, that’s why we have the “Bugs and Problems” to report the bugs we have in the module, and notice the developers that there is an issue need to be fixed in the future.

@BIGNEWY I did another fight test today with even much slower missiles launching fequence in TWS mode than yesterday (24 Jun 2022), and the same issue still happened. I attached the corresponding track file and tacview file here for your reference. In summary, I've already done a triplicate tests with different missiles launching fequence in TWS mode and showed that this issue is highly reproducible. Tacview-20220625-011425-DCS-1 vs 5 AIM120 train.zip.acmi TWS bug 20220625.trk

Thanks for reply. I've taken your advice and slow down my missiles launching in TWS mode to do the same test again. However, I still locking the ghost object behind as shown in the video above. I attached the corresponding track file and tacview file here for your reference, you can take a look on that. Many thanks. Tacview-20220624-031523-DCS-1 vs 5 AIM120 train.zip.acmi TWS bug 20220624.trk

Original post: Since ED stated that the “TWS ghost contact: fixed” in the DCS 2.7.12.23362 Open Beta update on 28 Apr, 2022. I updated the game and tested it again on 30 Apr, 2022. However, I found that my TWS lock is still messing up by unknown contact when launching multiple AIM120s. In this mission I firing AIM120s to five IL-76MD, I suddenly locking an unknown target (170Vc, 0.7RNG; as you can see in 1:20 in the attached video) when I switching targets. This clearly not the own missile (as the own missile must be negative Vc), and not the IL-76MD (as all of them are at 900Vc, 2X.X RNG). The unknown contact messing up my TWS, and I finally losing tracks for all the previosly launched AIM120s. Although the AIM120s finally hit targets, it is only due the the current build of AIM120 able to turn on their own radar in the final phase to aquire the target, my own radar already losing tracks for the AIM120s at the time when detecting and losing the unknown target. Therefore, the ghost contact issue is not completely fixed, it only disappear faster than before, but I can still detect it easily when switching target in multiple AIM120s launch. This test finally merged into the original post and seems haven't reported again so I put it here again. As following @BIGNEWY advice to wait the new patch DCS 2.7.15.26783 Open Beta releasded on 22 Jun, 2022 and test it again. I've done the same test today 23 Jun, 2022 with the same mission, actually the issue is reproducible. This time I also use the HMD to tace what is being tracked, and I found that I have tracking something behind, which is improssible because no matter IL-76MD or own miissiles sholud be in front of me in this scenario. I inclued all the track files and tacview files on the tests done on 28 Apr, 2022 and 22 Jun, 2022, as well as the mission file here if you want to try. I hope that this issue can completely fixed in the coming patch. Tacview-20220430-222445-DCS-1 vs 5 AIM120 train.zip.acmi TWS bug 20220430.trk Tacview-20220623-095334-DCS-1 vs 5 AIM120 train.zip.acmi TWS bug 20220623-2.trk 1 vs 5 AIM120 train.miz

Thanks you guys for justification. Then I will wait for the improvement for C model. I still have fun for firing the Mk60 to hit the bomber and… IL76MD (seems a little bit inhumanity) at very long range in the current build.

If the AIM54C is that bad, then I see no reason why US replace the AIM54A with C at 1986 IRL, because in DCS AM54C just lose to AIM54A in every aspect. Now no matter the purpose is for hitting the fighter or boomer at high or low altitude, not saying Mk60, even AIM54A Mk47 can perform better than AIM54C, the AIM54C just make no use in DCS.

According to the detial tests in this video comparing the capability of different varients of AIM-54s in DCS. I just want to ask whether the speed of AIM-54C is really corrcect? IRL it is an improved model and I expected that with the same motor (MK47) to AIM-54A it should at least have similar speed. However, the AIM-54C is now significantlly slower than the AIM-54A (MK47) and make that long range shot worsen due to the lack of speed at terminal phase. Therefore, just want to know is that normal? Now it seems that AIM-54A MK60 is the best varant in DCS. Many thanks.

This is an follow up report for the same issue: I need to open a new topic because the previous one had been closed. Since ED stated that the ghost contact have been fixed in the change log of DCS 2.7.12.23362 Open Beta. I updated the game and tested it again today. However, I found that my TWS lock is still messing up by unknown contact when launching multiple AIM120s. In this mission I firing AIM120s to five IL-76MD, I suddenly locking an unknown target (170Vc, 0.7RNG; as you can see in 1:20 in the attached video) when I switching targets. This clearly not the own missile (as the own missile must be negative Vc), and not the IL-76MD (as all of them are at 900Vc, 2X.X RNG). The unknown contact messing up my TWS, and I finally losing tracks for all the previosly launched AIM120s. Although the AIM120s finally hit targets, it is only due the the current build of AIM120 able to turn on their own radar in the final phase to aquire the target, my own radar already losing tracks for the AIM120s at the time when detecting and losing the unknown target. Therefore, the ghost contact issue is not completely fixed, it only disappear faster than before, but I can still detect it easily when switching target in multiple AIM120s launch. I also attached my track file, tacview and mission file here for your reference, many thanks. 1 vs 5 AIM120 train.miz TWS bug 20220430.trk Tacview-20220430-222445-DCS-1 vs 5 AIM120 train.zip.acmi

This TWS behaviour seems now a common issue in DCS… like I reported several months ago for the F-18 TWS issue.

@BIGNEWY can you take a look in the new evidences that I’ve provided? Many thanks.

Yes, definitely that the “ghost targets” only present during missile launch, normally the radar didn’t pick up something weird all the time. Let’s wait the ED team responds on this issue, hope that they can correct it very soon. I’ve already lost interest to the Hornet due to this radar issue, now I have much more fun playing with the old F14B.

Detecting own missile is acceptable, but clearly on my video footage there are something’s other than the missiles can be detected by own radar during missile launch, and surprisingly they are invisible.

Supplementary evidence to my last post is provided here. Attached flight record is showing that when TWS lost lock to those "ghost targets", the AIM120Cs no longer active to chase and hit the original targets. At the end of this flight, my radar finally lock my own AIM120Cs instead of my "ghost targets", and clearly that the TWS engagement parameters of my own AIM120Cs are differed from the "ghost targets". Thus, these things are not the own missiles. Collectively my conclusion is that the "ghost targets" will definitely messing the TWS to chase and hit the "real targets". This issue is not related to 1) contact fade time and 2) RAID mode of TWS, it is an separate issue that the TWS tracking something that DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXISTS. I hope that you will really notice that this is a problem. Many thanks. Tacview-20210924-235330-DCS TWS bug (ghost target)-lost lock.zip.acmi TWS bug (ghost target)-lost lock.trk

Seems the problem did not fixed yet. Maybe this time I need to point out the problem more precisely to see if there is any possible fix, no matter it is really a bug or it is only my operation problem. I did another flight in DCS 2.7.6.13133 Open Beta, since this problem is easily to reproduce. I attached the track file, tacview and the video recording here. You can clearly see that I have already increased the contact fade time from 4 to 16, also no RAID mode was used in the TWS mode. After that, in the missile launch you can clearly see that the locking is already very fluctuated when switching target (another issue), and then I suddenly locking an unknown target that messed up with my originally launching sequence on multiple target. This time the AIM120Cs are luckily enough to continue chase and hit the target. However, most of the time this unknown target will make my AIM120C no longer active to chase and hit the original targets if I lost lock to this unknown target. This time since the lock haven't lost so I follow the unknown target again, and you can clearly see that actually there is noting in front of me. Noted that there is more than one unknown target in my radar contact. This problem is really annoying and make the TWS mode in F/A-18C is even more unreliable than the old F-14B... If you need other evidences showing that how AIM120C being inactive when loss lock to the unknown target, I can provide it in the next reply. Many thanks. Tacview-20210924-223915-DCS TWS bug (ghost target)20210924.zip.acmi TWS bug (ghost target)20210924.trk

I actually use contact fade time 16 and no RAID mode was used in my attached track. But seems that this issue is not related to the contact fade time or the mode being used, it is about the unknown targets being tracked by the radar. Thanks for reply.

I've seen some reported bug on the TWS issue in the current built. One of the topic talking about the F18 radar confused between more than 1 contact. Recently, I found that the TWS seems messed up by the "ghost" targets when launching the missiles on multiple targets. Basically, when I try to launch 10 AIM120C to 10 targets that is work perfectly in the previous build, the radar seems to be messed up by some very close targets and losing lock to the original targets during the missile launch. I initially think that it is due to the own missiles being scanned by the own radar. However, when I try to pick up one of that mysterious target and chase it. I found that it is a "ghost" target. Therefore, it seems that the TWS is messing up with some unknown emission during the missile launch, and may explain why someone report previously that the F18 radar confused between more than 1 contact. I attached the track file and the tacview file here for your reference. I record them in DCS open beta DCS 2.7.5.10869. Many thanks. new tests: 1. 2. TWS bug (ghost target).trk TWS bug (ghost target).acmi

Killing 10 Su-33 at once with 10 AMRAAMS using TWS in F/A-18C. Not a fair fight indeed, but really fun on that. Feels like a movie scene on that, haha.