rocketeer

Hi Shane, good to see you here again. From a design point of view, would the connectors be stacked at different height between the rows? Most breakout boards like those from Hagstrom and OC are arranged in a semi-circle. Yours are in parallel rows. if they are all at the same height it might be a bit too crowded for the finger as you'd be many wires in the same area. An stacked arrangement like this will make it easier to do the wiring. http://users.skynet.be/jcordon/cockpit/electronique.htm

This is my idea of the NMSP panel. I want a push button of the exact size (around 14mm) with LED. Rather than trying to find switches like NKK ones (which are very expensive), I decided to have some fun. 1. cut a square from a thick acrylic sheet. Drill a recess (not too deep that it breaks through to the other side). 2. Get a LED that is relatively flat. This one is dome shaped and is super bright. I bent the legs sideways to reduce its height further. 3. take an Omron tactile switch and stick it into an acrylic cube. 4. Put the LED under the thick acrylic sheet with its dome head into the recess of the acrylic, then put both on top of the tactile switch and cube. This way I'd get to have LED light plus the push button. 5. Secure them with hot glue. 6. Cut a panel for the NMSP, cut some square holes. Put a few of the above combinations together plus a toggle. This will be the top row of the panel. Testing the size of the square holes to fit the toggles without too much gap or being too tight. 7. Test the LED to make sure it still works. The label is just some random paper I picked up from my leftovers. When to switch on the LED will be driven by helios and OC connection to mirror the state in the sim. I hope this works!

Now I don't have all the toggles yet but you get the idea. Can you tell that the AHCP is 5/8" above the baseboard?

Have a blessed Christmas, Trigger!

Succellus, I'm not going the CH or ergodex route as those are just push buttons, no toggles, encoders or pots. But that's just me. You are right. Its better than touchscreen. Others can use this method, like what warriorX has done for the ufc. Feed, I'd be getting the same small body big bat toggles for the ahcp. I don't have the monitor yet. I might also build steam gauges through OC next time but that'd take a long time.

No problem Alex, you can post anything you want here. Ok, now with a better prototype, with correct dimension and a cutout to view the gauges. Now I've put the board on a small table and viewing it vertically. the view of the flaps is a bit blocked. Guess it's not that bad? I'd widen the cutout more to the right. Also I'd move the gauges down some more in helios. Other than that I'm happy with it. This is the front panel that I'm most concerned with the view of the gauges being blocked by switches. The rest are less of a problem. The slight adjustments that I have to make within the front panels to get a good view of the gauges are nothing compared to if I were to shift the gauges to undesired locations. Guess I'm going to stick to this layout! Feed, I'd make sure the panel is mounted higher up so that the switches don't touch the base at all, including bending the legs sideways. So I think that'd be safe from pressing against the monitor. :huh: I think this is doable.

Check if there is matching cap with it. If not get the omron B3F-4050 bit has square and round caps with ideal size for cdu and ufc. See post 23 by Boot in http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=62995. There are tactile switches with longer/taller body. Dont get those type. They wobble sideways too much. The 4050 doesn't wobble much as it is stiffer. I'd like a push button to go straight down and not sideways.

Feed, to address some of your concerns here. 1. Where there is no switch but an opening to show the glass cockpit that is fine. Where there is a switch infront, there'd be a base board as the 'floor'. In fact the picture I showed will be the base, with many openings to show the gauges. Then where there are switches, they'd be protected by the base. Also I'd mount the switches so that the legs don't even touch the base. Thus no force should be transferred to the monitor surface. 2. It may still look funny with some parts jutting out. We'd minimize it by keeping it as close to the monitor as possible by using smallest possible switch bodies. Also, I think cutting a larger opening than necessary will help prevent the switch panel from blocking the view of the gauges due to the panel sticking out further. I'd experiment with that tonight. 3. I am also going to use rotaries for the ADI/HSI knobs. Can't use the CTS288 though. They'd be too big. You can find some that are shorter and smaller, not solder lug type but PC pin. They are like half the size of the CTS288. Isn't this challenging and fun?

Since parts are cheap and manufacturing highly developed in China you should build a CDU or UFC and sell it. There'd be DCS fans who'd buy them. and you'd be doing them a favor. Not everyone is crazy like the few of us in trying to build things from scratch. Time and skills are limited. But for you it'd be easy. Get the panel cut and engraved by machine. Parts readily available. Even making of PCBs. Better yet just just one USB connection like Go Flight panels. Besides the HOTAS and MFDs, nothing more useful than the CDU and UFC.

Thanks Alex. Haven't seen you around for a while. Welcome back. Succellus, the wiring will be a pain. But the motivation is for each one wired it'd become operational. So looking forward to it, but I still have a lot more to go with the building part.

Very nice!

Thanks Gus. It's nothing compared to what you've done.

Moving on to the front console, as usual I begin by protyping to check dimensions and placements. If IRL the AHCP is about 4"x6", which I've used above as a guide, then a 23" monitor is not going to fit even without the two panels at the sides. Everything in the 23" display will have to be condensed. That is fine if you are using a touchscreen monitor. But to pit builders, you'd realize that your left and right consoles are fairly accurate in size but the front console is small compared to the side consoles, at least that's what I found if I squeeze things into a 23". So, to keep things in proportion, and the stubborn old me wants to do things the hard way by placing real switches infront of the monitor rather using the easy way of touch screen, I arrived at the layout above. Then I realized that a 30-32" display would be required if I want to cover the side panels (gear and fuel). Oops! That's much bigger than I planned. I can shrink things down, but not too much for leg space as to be in between the two side panels, and ideally the Nav and TISL panels should be as wide as the ADI and HSI. Ah, design decisions. If you insist on placing real switches over a glass cockpit like me, you'd have to use switches with small body to keep the height of the panel down so that they are 'closer' to the surface of the monitor. I realized with delight after protyping that I can get the gear panel and fuel panels done without having them too high. Else they won't look good and then I'd have to move the flaps and fuel gauge further in to which I don't like. This is how I plan to do the gear/flap panel. The landing light switch and the gear lever will both use flat toggles. One is 3 way and the other 2 way. Then both shaft will have a horizontal slit to fit the flat toggle. This way it won't rotate. Then both just flip up and down. The gear lever won't look as nice as what some of you have designed but it's again my quick and dirty way of building things and is simple and functional. The two levers above are just protypes. I'd make better looking ones and without the masking tape! Checking the height including the thickness of the board that will be partially covering the monitor shows that the total distance from base board to the panel will be max 3/4". I can live with that. I can further reduce it a bit by bending the legs of the switches sideways. Here's the fuel panel. Bending the legs reduce the height a bit. What do you guys think of this approach of putting switches infront of glass cockpit. I do it because I'm trying hard to preserve all the positions of the panels. Is this stubborn or stupid?

This part is my most challenging build so far, building concentric switches for the Tacan and ILS panels. On the right of the Tacan and the left of the ILS require a 45 degree rotary switch at the bottom knob and an encoder at the top knob. In the real panel it uses a series of gears, which I don't have any. So I tried doing the below. the result is this. I was able to rotate the bottom knob without moving the top knob (almost always). Still need some adjustments. Rotating the top knob definitely doesn't move the bottom knob since the rotary switch requires more force and the resistance of the rotary will prevent it from rotating easily. How I did it. 1. The outer knob will be tied to the top switch. The inner knob to the bottom switch. That means the encoder will have to be connected to a small pipe or rod that goes through the middle of the rotary switch. I use a 3/32 pipe. Rod will be better, and brass would be better than aluminium, as it would be stronger and doesn't bend as much, keeping it straight. 2. Take apart the rotary switch. Do it in a plastic bag and pry it open slowly. In case the two ball bearings or springs jump out, they won't disappear if you use the plastic bag. 3. Remove the ball bearings and springs if they are still inside. Drill a hole through the top half of the rotary. Use a small hole size first and slowly increase it. Obviously using a drill press is better here. Drill until your pipe can go through it. 4. Drill the bottom half of the switch till the pipe can go through it 5. For the two springs, cut both a bit shorter. Again start small. I just cut them about 5 or 10% shorter. Why the need to cut them? We'd be putting the pipe in the middle through the rotary. The springs at both sides will be squeezed tighter/shorter by pipe in the middle. Trimming them will reduce the ball bearings from jumping out as much. You can't just drill a hole right through without taking it apart first as you won't be able to get the pipe in without separating the springs first. 6. The top half of the rotary is made of two parts. A shaft with the body and a case. Put the pipe through the shaft, then put both springs in, the one ball bearing. Rotate the body till it meets an opening at the bottom of the case. Press both together and use a small screwdriver to squeeze the ball bearing in and shut it in by rotating the body. 7. Align the hole with the other spring with the opening and put in another ball bearing. Again rotating it to lock it. Hold both body and case togeth will the springs and ball bearings may fall out. 8. Put the bottom half of the switch, threading the pipe through its middle first before closing the two halfs. Make sure the pipe stays in place. If you pull it too much the springs inside may close up then you can't put the pipe through again till you open it up again. 9. Drill a hole on the encoder till the pipe can get in. Seal it tight with super glue or hot glue. 10. Put rotary switch and encoder together while try not to bend the pipe. There you have it, a concentric switch. It looks like many steps. It was intimidating to me at first too. After a few times you'd be ok with it, like stripping a rifle blindfolder with practice, well almost. Though this works for me, some of you may prefer to use other methods, like adding a push action before it can be rotated etc. to prevent one knob from affecting the other. The next challenge is the right side of the ILS. That requires an encoder for the top knob and a pot to the bottom knob. It seems to me that you can't drill through a pot as the middle is where the contact is. I'd have to try using a bigger pipe connected to a gear connected to another gear that drives a pot, then the inner pipe connects to the encoder directly. Got to get some gears now. Hope this gives you some idea on how to tackle the Tacan and ILS. If you guys have better methods please share too. I'd like to know.

This is the backplate for the UHF panel, with pot, rotary switches and encoders. Things can get a bit crowed underneath. Obviously I can face the encoders outward but that could get in the way of other panels. Those of you building the pit will realize this too when you get there.

When you create the Enter button cap by dipping the square cap into a box with resin, use the omron switch as well, tie the switch with the square cap upside down attached to a flat stick, then place over a container. don't put it all the way to the botton. don't touch the bottom. Leave a small gap of say 3mm. This way not only will the resin found around the sides to become a rectangular shape, but the gap will mean the top of the cap is uniform and smooth as well and does not show the edge of the square cap is put all the way to the bottom. I guess I am stating the obvious. If you can't get the NKK push button switch with LED for the master caution, you can make an even better rectangular cap like above with the omron switch in the middle and place two LEDs at the sides. Just sand the bottom of the cap to help distribute the light evenly.

Gadroc, I'm waiting for you to add more functions so I can test rotary switch, pot and encoder :smilewink:

Not sure if you guys have noticed. Most toggles are two way, some three. But a few are 'special'. These are the ones I've noticed so far. red circle: mom-off-mom blue circle: on-off-mom

up down, up down. fuel lever done. It's not obvious in the pictures, but I've replaced the old push buttons with four push pull buttons.

Hmm, no one else seems to share this excitement of helios interfacing with real switches. guess everyone else just cares about the glass cockpit and touchscreen stuff.

Boot, this is great find! The dimension for the key square and round key caps are perfect, so is the illuminted push button from NKK. Personally though I'd prefer the one that sticks out eg. UB03KW035F-FF but that's just me. For teh rectangular Enter button how I'll do it is to make a rectangular box, but a square cap in it upside down with the top facing down. Then pour casting resin (which I have a big bottle) up to the height of the cap but not to spill over to avoid it flowing into the underside of the cap. Dry overnight and my square cap is now rectangular. I really like the NKK PB find. It is a push button, the rectangular dimension is ideal enough and is also illuminated. Thank you!

Trigger, you have redefined the term 'hardcore', and I'm not talking about porn!

Now that the glass cockpit is working great for gauges, I turned my attention to interfacing with real switches today. Took Gadroc's instruction and hooked up my leo board, then added it as an interface in helios. Son of a gun! It works. Just drag and drop. I couldn't believe. I used to fuss over the switch functions in the lua files. Using helios avoided all that. First I tried push button. Have to bind twice, to the press, and the release. Then tried toggles. One more step required, ie. give the values eg. 1=on, 2=off etc. You select an action on the right, drag it over to the desired button on the left, then set value. Given that this is beta, I expect the release version to have a lot more switch functions. Now I only see mainly the gauges and a few switch functions under DCS A10C Interface category. There is nothing there for me to try the more complex stuff like pot, rotary switch, encoder etc. Can't wait. This is going to be so much easier than SOIC. I hope Helios will cover ALL A10C functions that are exposed by ED. Please pretty please! This is awesome!

Wow!