thanks for the help guys, the ones who actually tried to help.to the others,apparently I have to scan a manual constantly for one obscure reference which isnt in the manuals index.If I could have found it in the manual I wouldnt have posted here. Duh. Thanks for that advice ., Never thought of reading the manual. And I cant ask for help in more than one place. That would be awful. hope someone can be as helpful for you in the future.