ArtMan_NL

Thanks guys!!

@Molevitch, Enjoy your holiday in Morocco. I think you needed that holiday after all the problems with our stick :) I´m afraid you are right about the longer "throw". I did a small test flight and the Ka-50 was rock stable instead the Huey.... That thing went everywhere. Unfortunately I have an another problem as well. My framerates are far to low with my ATI videocard. A common problem as far as I can see on this forum. Tonight I will get an Nvidia videocard to solve this problem. Then I will continue my testing. In the meantime I will try to lower my console and make the stick longer. Thanks for mention that possible problem with my setup :thumbup: @C6_Hellfrog: Thanks mate. I never had that before about activate the trim and vibrating so neither did I with my modified stick. However I do have some movement in the locked position. But when you have a long stick I think it doesn´t bother you anymore. I´m afraid Molevitch is right about that point. My extension is to short due to a high console I made. I couldn´t make my extension longer because your arm has to rest on your upper leg during flying. 2 chopper pilots told me that was the trick to better chopper flying. Also in real life a chopper is a thing that wants to kill you when you are not skilled enough :D So, there is still some engineering to do at my side :noexpression: First I´ll do some further testing with my Nvidia card when I pick it up tonight. High framerates is absolutely necessary when flying a chopper. @Dayglow: There are no dump questions here in this topic. I think it is not possible because every USB controllerboard has his own hardware ID. It is not a one way communication to the controllerboard. The controllerboard will communicate back to windows. And what's the deal? You only save 1 cable and 1 USB port.

Then I started with extending the wires from the grip. Here I finished my MSFFB 2*2 mod. As you can see I made the console shorter. Now I have to do the configuration in DCS world and some further testing. I keep you informed guys. I hope I will see other mods here soon :pilotfly: /Arthur

I'm back again with some updates :) It's very quit in this topic, I hope I didn't make other users scared with my manual :D It took quite a while to show you some pictures again but it was a lot of work to finish the console. I brushed the console with my Wagner paint brush. The outside satin black and the inside satin white which give you a better view when you have to do some service. (And after all I had to do that.... After finishing installation I discovered one of the potentiometers went lose in the frame :doh:. I had to disassemble everything!) After finishing the console I prepared the print from the Cougar. I made a small frame and painted it black. Then I made 4 threaded ends for hanging the complete assembled MSFFB 2 frames. I think this way is far more stable and stronger then the 4 plywood screws PeterP used for his set up. In this stage I made the console 100 mm shorter. It was just to high for putting it behind my chair.

Thanks :) I just have luck with the lathe from a customer but without it your door stopper is as good as well and it saves you a lot of time. I had almost the same but the inside of that door stopper was from a very hardened material. I couldn't make a threat in it. I think it was made from old German tanks :) After all to make this mod nicely it costs me a lot of time and I'm still no flying and enjoy the Huey or the Shark like you. I like the CH hardware and in the past I had the Fighterstick and Pro throttle. It's waayyyyy better than that stuff from Thrustmaster. Just have a look at the pots they used.

Nice to hear :thumbup: This week I made some progress. The counterweight. 1,5 kg. A disassembled Cougar. Some self made parts and on the left side a 20mm alu. tube. Assembled it will look like this: On the other side the alu. tube will be mounted on the upper force feedback. Today I ordered a rubber shift boot for an Amarican truck. I'm afraid I have to wait 2 ~ 3 weeks till I receive it from the U.S. Assembled it will look like this: That's all till now :)

See: http://www.campgroundvfs.nl

I'm afraid I did a miss calculation about the height. :( If I look to my weight, I need almost twice the height I first mentioned to you. But it is just a raw and quick calculation.

:thumbup: Molevitch, you just designed the smallest stick on earth with the new Intel 14 nanometer technology :D Thats why your case was so small :D As a matter of fact I like to remind you to this site: Leo Bodnar This guy designed top notch equipment for all DIY flightsim enthusiasts. All plug and play with built in drivers for Windows 7/8. With those prints you can make your own collective, switchboards and so on. Extremely easy for non-technicians too. I'm very happy for you you could solve the problems. At this moment flying for me will be a little difficult because I just disassembled the Cougar. I'm always amazed about the built quality of such a expensive stick. Unbelievable. I'm sure we will fly together. I'm very curious about your experience with the stick. Does the Huey fly easier now? /Arthur

Hi Molivitch, I think you mean: 250 x 250 x 280 mm. Otherwise you have a very small case :)

Good question. The weight should be around 1,5 kg like PeterP calculated. I kept his dimensions about the casing. It is about 25 x 25 x 25 cm. PeterP has these dimensions too. Please see below for the sizes. I did a miss calculation for my situation. After I assemble my case I'll be absolutely sure. /Arthur

Congratulations ! So you have the same wiring as me now? :pilotfly: Great!

You made a short circuit on the power pcb? :music_whistling: So? your wiring was wrong? Only the potentiometers or your motors as well? I hope the guide will solve your problems. I'm very curious about your progress. Good luck :thumbup:

I hope I made some parts clear of this nice mod. I think this was the most important part but I will continue while I'm building this stick. As a pay back I expect input from you guys. Don't let it be one way communication but give feedback with your wiring. Please let me know if the wiring I showed here is working. Please do not ask questions if it is written in the manual. Take your time and read the manual twice or print it out and put it near your test bench. For the English speaking guys: forgive my European Style English. It is not my native language :smilewink: After all: I would like to thank PeterP for this great mod. For me this guy is a kind of Einstein for DCS. I haven't seen him some time here on the forum so I hope he didn't give up DCS. /Arthur

Wiring the motors lower MSFFB2 The plug from the motors are on the other side of the print. Please face the plug in font of you and have a look at the wires: By the way I didn't cut any wires. I push out the connectors very carefully. I used a tool like this on the picture below. After changing the wires it is time for further testing :joystick: BE AWARE: keep out the cables from the upper MSFFB2 when you test the lower one. Otherwise the test will fail. Plug in the power cable and the usb cable in your rig. Does the MSFFB centre it self or does it slam to one of the corners? If so please re-check the wires of your potentiometers. Stay the stick in the centre? Well congratulate yourself. You have had the most difficult part of this project :) Now we are doing the same test as we have done before with the upper MSFFB. But there is an other very important part in your setup needed !! ERASE all the settings in the controls tab for this MSFFB. Especially the X axis and Y axis but do not forget to enable the FFB and the swap axis option Now it is time for starting the Gauntlet mission where the Shark is waiting for you with running engines. Do a Right-Control-Enter to fire up the red controls mini hud. Press on your keyboard the upper arrow key and look at the Diamond in the controls mini hud. It should go upwards. When the Diamond goes upwards look what your stick is doing. Don't look at the lower stick but, just like before with testing the upper MSFFB, at your upper stick. It doesn't make you tumble weed and saves you calculation in directions of the sticks. Because the upper MSFFB hasn't any power it is just slaved on the lower stick. If the engine wires are OK the stick will make the same direction as the upper stick in the first testing phase. Make also an left and right stick test. The stick should behave itself as the upper MSFFB with testing. As an example, I had some trouble here :) When I pushed the upper arrow key on the keyboard my lower stick went in the X axis direction. NO GOOD at all. After a simple wire change at the motors everything was OK. So, as a reminder: When you stick slam to the corners the wires from the potentiometers are wrong connected. When the stick is going in a wrong direction you made an fault with the motor wires. Do also an testing with the trim (T on your keyboard). But the diamond won't move this time because you erased the X-axis and Y-axis in the controls tab. You didn't forget that part of this manual heh? :book:

Lower MSFFB OK, after an intensive test of your upper MSFFB we are going to mount the lower one. Please, do not forget to take the power plug out and the USB plug from the upper MSFFB2 Because you mounted the blue Conrad frames already in the first stage it is very easy and comfortable to mount the lower MSFBB. By pushing the motors through the mounting hole where they intend to be the whole part will be right adjusted. Tight the black bolts with a fitting screwdriver. Now, please have a look at the picture: Before you tight the screws be absolutely sure the small "sticks" are in a straight line. Be very precise otherwise one of the two units will hit the end stopper of the frame giving extra stress on the gears. Well.... :D Now its time to show you the long awaited wiring. Please see picture below: When mixing up with those wires you can cause damage to the potentiometer. The RED and the Green wires are always in the middle of the other wires. PeterP gave us an perfect description of the function of those potentiometers. If you want to experiment with the wires only change brown and orange with each other and Yellow and Blue with each other. When the wires are wrong the stick will slam to one of the corners. Why? Because when you plug in the power cable and after that the USB cable the windows driver will initialize the stick to its zero (centre) point. When you mixed up with the wiring the potentiometer will give a wrong value to the print. The cpu will then try to force the stick to its centre giving a lot f stress to the gears. So, after slamming immediately pull out the USB plug from your rig and do further investigation. But before doing that we have to change the motor wires. Do not plug in any cable right now...

As an advice I suggest you wait till I publish some pictures about the wiring. Please be patient :thumbup::) /Arthur

After this guide it will be a piece of cake :thumbup:

First test run upper MSFFB After finishing the things you did in the previous posts it is time for the first test run. Re-check the wires. Be aware for the power circuit board. 220 Volts! Plug in the power cable. Do not touch the cicuit boards !!!! Switch on your rig. Does it have enough USB ports? Plug in the USB cable. The MSFFB will centre itself. The power led is shining red but can be switch off after a few seconds after internal check by Windows. (XP, 7 or 8, all will work and have drivers !!) When something is wrong with the potentiometers the stick will slam to one of the corners. That means you fu**ed up something. Probably a short circuit between the potentiometer and the house of the motor. Distance is very little and it isn't well engineered in my point of view. :music_whistling: Remember: when you check the wires pull out the powercable from the outlet and pull out the USB cable from your rig. Well, it is time to fire up DCS world and Black Shark. For testing purposes I was using my old BS2 copy. The one without DCS world. I expect it will work in DCS world 1.2.7 as well. First go to the options menu, choose Black Shark SIM, choose axis commands, and check if FFB is on and check the swap controls check mark. Choose a mission were the shark is on the ground but with running engines. For me it was the Gaunlet mission. Do a right - control - enter. This will show you the red controls mini hud. When you press on the upper arrow key you see the diamond goes up in the red controls mini hud. When you have a look at your test bench MSFFB you will see the stick is going forward as well. Now take that black small mini stick of your msffb touch "T" on your keyboard and be shure it is functioning like an out of the box MSFFB2. After releasing the button "T" from your keyboard the stick stays on the place where you left it behind. Please don't care about the shark. It will crash but there are plenty of them. Yes, as you can see now the controls are synchronized which will be a great help for further testing. Will be continued....

Start with upper MSFFB2 Oké, First start with disassemble the upper msffb2 and make a test bench the way I did: This test bench gives you a good view on everything. If you have the inside of the MSFFB (frame with mounted motors) you have to take off the small gears from the motors. The best what you can do is using a disk puller. Working with screwdrivers will cause to much stress on the axis from the motor causing damage inside the motor. Just go to a local garage with your frame and ask for a disk puller or make your own tool. Probably the spindle of the disk puller is far to thick but if you take a screw with the same diameter as the axis, you can put that between the spindle and the axis from the motor. When the gear is off you can mount the Conrad frames. Before doing so it is strongly recommended to mount the two frames to each other. Space is very limited and now you have enough room to tighten up the screws and nuts. Mount the Conrad frames between the motors and the original MSFFB frame. You can use the same black screws from the motor. They are just long enough. Best is to use some Loctite to prevent losing through vibration. After assembling the motors and Conrad frames you can mount the unit in the test bench. For testing you can do the PeterP methos to fasten the frame with 7 cm plywood screws. As a technician I can say this is to weak but for testing its oke right now. Later on I will show you a better solution. :music_whistling: Now you can connect the PCB's. I use only wiring for the potentiometers, USB cable, Motor plug and power led. Everything else I don't use like PeterP is doing with all those wires. Later on I use my Thrustmaster Cougar and that is enough for my brains. More buttons won't work for me ;) Please, see the picture below for the wires I use. As you see I took out the MSFFB grip detector. You just don't need it and I cut it off. Another picture of the test bench:

Things you need. As PeterP already mentioned you need a couple of things to make this mod. 2 pieces of Microsoft Force Feedback 2 joysticks (USB plug!!!) Some tools. 4 pieces of frame's PeterP mentioned which you can buy at Conrad. Please see the previous posts. 4 pieces of M4 allan bolts, 8 M4 rings and 4 M4 self-locking nuts A nice case for your modded stick. I bought 18 mm MDF and make my case self. Other stuf you like to add to your stick. The frame's from Conrad are great because they are very strong and give you the right distance between the gears. I used 2 m4 bolts each frame to connect to each other. Be aware there is a lot of power in those motors. They are expansive but just buy them. I used M4 self-locking nuts to tighten up the frame's.

Idiots guide for PeterP MSFFB2*2 Mod. Finally I find a solution for the problems I mentioned in the older posts. I have to say that I was sometimes totally tumble weed after fighting with the wires :smilewink: Before I start with the guide I have to say that it is a dangerous operation for non-technicians. You are working with a unshielded printed circuit board with a very high voltage. Accidental touch of those boards can cause death. Doing this mod is at your own risk. So don't blame me if you are touching a 220~240 Volt Printed circuit board. Over here you see a part of my test bench:

I did that but it didn't fix the problem. I'm considering to use my third and spare ffb for testing. Very weird problem which I can't explain..... Unfortunately I don't have time to look after it today :( /Arthur

Ok I have been testing last evening and my lower msffb is slamming to one of the corners instead of centralizing itself when I plug in the usb cable. Wiring is good. The story continues..... ;-)

I have been thinking whole day about it and the answer is very logical...... Honestly I must say it is just very stupid I didn't think about it. The lower msffb is behaving different because we erased the X and the Y axis in the settings. For this reason the lower msffb isn't "powered" off if you push the trim button. The motors just deliver a certain power but are just movable with a certain resistance. The upper msffb has the X and the Y axis assigned in the settings. So this one will move without any resistance when you push the trim button. After releasing the button the motors will get power (gain) again holding the stick into position. After all the function of the lower msffb is just holding the 1,5 kg weight and pass the "force" of this weight through to the upper msffb. The question asking myself is now: do you really need the circuitboards for the lower msffb? There isn't any axis or other function assigned to this joystick........... The counterweight is the magic..... Well its all very theoretically what I am writing here but helps if you run against some problems. :smartass: I'm not sure if I am right and wish I had a good friendship with one of the developers responsible for the flightcontrols section :joystick: /Arthur