ishtmail

Yes, I suppose it's in ED's best interest to alienate loyal customers.

You're being insulting. This is not about free planes. This is about being able to CHOOSE which planes we get, instead of getting stuck with the one plane we all already own.

Cost of development of one module has been estimated at 200.000 dollars and more. This is a low estimate (I'd say 300.000 is more realistic). This means that ED needs to sell AT LEAST 5.000 copies of one single plane to break even. Since the 200k estimate was low, ED actually needs to sell AT LEAST 10.000 copies of a single plane to make it work. There are only 2.500 backers of DCS:WW2. Our impact on the financial viability of this project is minimal. The bulk of income from these planes will come from full price sales. Even more than that, we're only talking about a $10 price difference ($30 P51D versus $40 Dora), which means the 'loss' is only 25.000 dollars (but you can't call it a loss, because you can't assume that people will buy the new modules if ED sticks them with the P51D). So, the 'loss' is less than 1/10th of the cost of developing a full module. Minimal 'loss', but the gain of loyal customers is priceless. I don't understand why you don't see that. Instead, you're proposing that ED sticks it to us, and gives us a serial for a module we already own. How many of the 2500 backers will they piss off that way? How many loyal customers will they lose? How much future income will be lost because of that? 25.000 dollars lost now is 100.000 dollars gained over the next two years.

Please elaborate how this would be too great of a financial impact? 1. The infrastructure for selecting rewards on the website is already made. Tweak it to correspond with the new reward tiers. An hour work at the most. 2. Modules are priced the same: $50 full price (or $40 reduced prepurchase price, as for the Dora right now). The only exception is the Mustang at $30 (a $10 difference), which would accumulate to 25.000 dollars total 'impact'. Considering the price of development of a full DCS module (200.000+ dollars), this is peanuts. And considering how many backers would be happy and would forever remain loyal customers, ED would be nuts NOT to give us a choice. 3. There are only 2500 backers that need to have this choice. This is peanuts. The actual sales that ED needs to make these modules financially viable is 10.000+ PER AIRPLANE. 4. The only financial impact that COULD happen is if ED assumes everyone would buy all the modules, if we can't get them as pledge rewards. That's quite an assumption.

Um... Until this post by Wags, DCS:WW2 was still a separate game. Backing at $40 level meant you got Dora for DCS:WW2 (whenever it was released, so maybe next year, maybe in 2 years), it did NOT give you Dora for DCS:World (available in August) though. It was with this last post by Wags that DCS:WW2 is no longer separate from DCS:World.

Here's a quick math: P51D module = $30 New DCS modules = $50, but prepurchase reduced to $40 (like the Dora is right now). Difference = $10. If ED were to give the 2500 backers the option to choose the first airplane as something different (so, instead of P51D, people would select the Spit or the BF109, because most already have the P51D), that means $25.000 "loss" for Eagle Dynamics. 25 grand is nothing. A single module costs anywhere from 200k and up to develop. The gain of happy customers that would finally be happy with their purchases, if we were allowed to CHOOSE the first airplane, however, is priceless.

I still believe in crowdfunding, being part of several successful crowdfunding projects that I believe will manage to fulfill all the promises (Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen come readily to mind). I also believe in DCS:WW2 and am absolutely thrilled that ED is continuing on the project. And if ED right now gave me an option to raise my pledge from $80 to $140, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, how ED is addressing backers (and specifically those with lower tier pledges), giving them the obviously unwanted P51D module serials instead of giving them at least one new airplane, that's not cool. The first flyable (at $20) should be either one of the new planes, or ED should let people choose which plane they want (even if that means they'll wait for it for over a year).

You seem to think that the 2500 backers that pledged during Kickstarter are it, that that's the whole fanbase that will ever buy these airplanes. That of course is silly. The 2500 backers haven't even payed for a single airplane development. Eagle Dynamics aren't stupid. They know that they need to sell at least 5.000-10.000 licences OF EACH SEPARATE AIRPLANE to make that module financially viable. With five airplanes (P51D should already be profitable by now for ED), that's 25.000 to 50.000 licences, so at least 10x as much money and purchases as the backers provided. What I'm saying is that honoring Kickstarter pledges is not even close to being financially unviable, because KS backers are peanuts compared to the whole potential market for DCS:WW2 airplanes. Furthermore, any and all such math about 'viability' is based on a simple, but completely false premise: that KS backers, if they don't get these airplanes the way they were supposed to, will simply BUY all the modules. That's quite an assumption. Many people who contributed to the KS campaign, and will now get less than what they pledged for, will be aggravated, disappointed at ED and DCS, and it's highly unlikely ED will be able to keep all of them as loyal customers. Thinking that if you don't give me my pledged fleet, that I will just outright buy it, is the same false thinking that music industry has about piracy (that if pirates were unable to pirate music, that they would simply buy all of it). This theory has been disproven several times over.

Here's a screenshot borrowed from Witchking, proving what I'm saying: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2101385&postcount=47

You have completely misunderstood the rewards. At $40 level, you would get SIX airplanes, for DCS:WW2 (when DCS:WW2 is released). At higher pledge levels, you would also get serials for Dora and P51D, but for use in DCS:World. More from the Kickstarter page: As you can see, the $20 level of pledging already granted you FOUR airplanes (so, P47, Spit, BF109 and potentially ME262). Why then would anyone back at $40 level? That's right, to get SIX airplanes (that includes P51D and Dora). But they would only be flyable in the STANDALONE GAME DCS:WW2. For those of us who wanted to pledge more, the incentive was to get serials for these two airplanes, for use in DCS:WORLD, which was at the time of Kickstarter a separate game from WW2. Why select the higher pledge tiers? Here is why, it's well explained on Kickstarter: Please understand, that during Kickstarter, there was a distinct differentiation between DCS:WW2 and DCS:World, two completely separate games. Both would use the same engine, but would be separate games. That's why you have "DCS:World" tiers of pledging: extra planes mentioned there are only for DCS:World (as you already get them for DCS:WW2). More so, here is my $80 Backer Section screenshot, where I selected my rewards... Note that there are separate sections for 'Flyables' and for 'Rewards'. In Flyables, you selected the DCS:WW2 airplanes (SIX of them), while in Rewards, you could select the DCS:World serials for Dora and P51D. I have seen people with $40 level of backing, who don't have any 'Rewards' to choose from, but they do have SIX flyable airplanes for DCS:WW2 to select.

Yeah, I doubt it as well, although I would at this point very much like to increase my pledge from $80 to $140. I have no problem paying full price for the two missing planes (P47 and ME262), but that won't grant me alpha access to those two planes, or the Normandy map.

You should not respond with false information.

No, that's completely wrong. P51D and Dora were a part of the 'all flyables'. By backing at $40 level, you would get: DCS:WW2 game + Dora for DCS:ww2 + P51D for DCS:ww2 + BF109k + Spitfire + P47 + ME262 All of these FOR DCS:WW2 game. Six DCS level airplanes in all, but only for DCS:WW2. Dora and P51D were additionally available in higher pledges, but for DCS:World. Just so we're absolutely clear. 6 airplanes for $40, but only within the WW2 game. This from the Kickstarter page: ME262 was then unlocked as a flyable in a stretch goal.

I also already have the p51d, so I feel you. I hope ED changes this decision and allows us to choose at least the 1st plane.

No, in your pledge, the plane is valued at $20. If you're not getting a plane as a part of your pledge reward, it'll cost the full price to buy it.

My first choice instead of the p51d (which I already own) would be the Schwalbe, but alpha access to the map would be fine as well :) Anyhoo, another vote to let us choose which planes we want (at least the first plane).

Yes, but not alpha access to it. According to Wags, Normandy Alpha is at $140+.

I'll swap my p51d key for the map alpha purrdy please...

I've pledged $80, so I'm two planes and the map alpha short. Where can I up my pledge to $140 to ensure I'll geteeverything?

The Dora YOU chose is the Dora for DCS:WW2. NOT the Dora for DCS:World. The only backers who should be given Dora serials for DCS:World (when Dora is released) are those who backed at higher pledge levels and have specifically selected Dora for DCS:World (in addition to all the flyables for DCS:WW2). People seem to keep forgetting that DCS:World and DCS:WW2 are supposed to be separate games.

DCS:World updates automatically when you run it. OK, it doesn't update in the background (like Steam does), you actually have to RUN it to update, but there is no manual updating left, as it used to be in the olden days of yore.

Considering ED's involvement in this project (serials for World modules, shared resources, even giving the P51D module for inclusion into DCS:WW2, actively advertising the project on their pages, setting up the Backer Rewards page), I doubt that this project was NOT approved by ED in full. Yes, it was a mess, but ED gave the green light (or they wouldn't invest as much into the project as they have).

I hope that those of us who pledged to include Dora for DCS:World (in addition to all the flyables for DCS:WW2) will get Dora in time for the August release of the module. This is what was promised during kickstarter: that we would receive the World versions of the planes (that we select as rewards) either immediately (P51D) or as soon as they're ready for World release (Dora). There was NEVER any doubt about it: the idea that we would only get World serials when WW2 was released was NOT a part of the deal. As for the pain: World serials were granted to RRG by ED. I highly doubt Luthier would go into his own pockets to buy all these serials from ED - it makes zero sense, the kickstarter money was supposed to fund the project, not fund purchasing the appropriate serials. That's why it's my firm belief that this was something ED gave to Luthier during kickstarter, as an additional support to the project, to incite more people into the mix. It would really make zero sense for Luthier to promise World module serials (for P51D for instance), and then out of 150.000 dollars raised pay 100.000 to ED for these serials. And one more thing: granting the promised World serials costs ED NOTHING. Except if you delude yourself into thinking that people would buy these modules if they didn't get the serials (and therefore giving serials away would mean money loss for ED), which of course isn't true at all. This is the same kind of argument the music publishers and movie publishers are spewing around, that 1 movie pirated means 1 less purchase - an argument that has been disproved several times over. I think ED is trying to do the right thing, but they are not entirely honest about their original involvement in the project. Yes, it's unfortunate that they are left with the bulk of development now, but they have been involved in the project from the start, helping it along with some additional rewards for the backers (namely, World serials for higher pledges), and ED should stop making it seem as if they're doing backers a huge favor (or going out of their way and at a huge expense of their own) by honoring these digital rewards. I understand that the physical rewards (manuals, Tshirts) are an issue as they have to be produced. But honoring digital rewards (like World serials) should not be an issue.

Intel I7 4770k, 16GB DDR3 @1600, SATA3 SSD disk for DCS installation Graphic card: Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB TriX

From Wags' post, one would think that everyone at $40 or above is getting a Dora serial number for DCS:World, regardless of whether you have selected it among your 'rewards'. If that's so, then having Dora DCS:W as a reward is redundant (if I'm getting it anyway), and I might change my reward selection to something else... :) I'll wait for the official update though.