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This is very interesting. I thought buttkicker products are plug'n'nplay with dcs? That's why you pay the $$$ no? What is needed for this type of "sound FFB" anyway? A subwoofer driver (I guess that's what the actual membrane is called), an amplifier and a sound card? So if you had the software, could you make your own hardware system?

Sory Zahry, I'm on your side, I'll be getting one of your srceens asap, along with my grips and throttles, physical instruments, g-seat and a complete cockpit... but your statement is completely bias from a pit builder point of view. It's like if Enzo Ferrari said "please, if you get a Toyota Supra you might as weel sit in an office chair and go wroom". While in fact a cheap toyota supra will give you one HELL of a ride for one TENTH of a price of a Ferrari. Not only that, but our precious inventions and expensive phisycal cockpit representations will never ever get close to the visual imersion a cheap oculus set gets you, of simply flying around. I myself would rather get a 20$ joystick and oculus to experience the sensation of flying around. Just because you wish it wasn't so doesn't make it true. That's fact, and it will soon become apparent when you see the VR market making billions of $$$ and us making what, one hundred thousand of that :) Again, you (we both) might wish it wasn't true, but it just is. Sorry, but VR is the sh...t!! We can only try to compete with it. Otherwise facebook would have bought both you and me for a lot less then two f...ing billion :) Still, I say we take 'em on!

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Yes. Grips will be completely interchangeable, that's the whole point. For my bases I will most likely adapt the warthog 5pin standard. If you're ordering a complete hotas with the bases, this doesn't concern you. For anyone interested in only grips/throttles, they would choose either warthog compatible grips, or x-55 compatible grips, and those grips would be completely interchangeable with either their warthog or x-55 bases.

Guess who's doing my electronics and firmware, and who's doing his custom cut styrofoam packaging :music_whistling: These crafty Croats are in it from the beginning :)

Yes, my own bases are also in development, which will feature metal gimbals, custom firmware, force and damping adjustability etc...

For the altimeter, can't you define the 1 turn stepper as having 40*720 steps? But have it display only tens and hundreds? I'm no mathematician but there has to be an easy formula to code that? Or manualy write the code for each thousand of feet? Let's say max ceiling is 40.000 feet, so the hundreds needle would have 40 turns max. And have the needle turn only -720 steps on each start to hit zero position.

A few reasons for this little "down time": 1) After the very first hardened resin grip prototype/mockup turned out way better than I had hoped for, I immediately set out to improve my custom 3d printer, and set it up for production of first small batches of "beta" grips. This required fabrication of additional components/parts for the machine, laser and plasma cutting in general, which I have to order, test, modify then order again until I get the perfect part. A bit expensive, and worse it's time consuming. So I set out to see If, in this great age of DIY and open source, I can maybe make/assemble my own laser and plasma cutter. I built my own industrial size/quality printer so why not, all of those machines are not in direct contact with the material they're fabricating so you don't need a few tons of metal construction to get decent results, like you do with cnc machines. And what do you know, all the parts are available for a DIY solution, and to my surprise, both laser and plasma cutter use the very same electronics and firmware I already have in my printer. It does cost some $$$ in parts and components so I have to do some boring work first, along with the research and design preparation for the laser and plasma cutters. 2) My own laser/plasma cutter will allow me to go even bigger and better with my printer design, so I need more than "just" F-18 controls. I started F-14 grips and throttles, well continued actually since I already had the research and first models already done from the very beginning. I also started Mig-21, Fw-190 and Bf-109 grips and throttles. All of which I had done research and models from before, but now it's time to prepare the models for manufacturing and electronics and warthog/X-55 compatibility. 3) Laser/plasma cutter will also allow me to make instruments and panels too, so a great deal of time, research and design preparation went into that. 4) Had to wait for all the electronics and hardware to arrive to start prototyping that part of the deal. Both for the grips&throttle, and the laser/plasma cutters. 5) My only experience with flying is the old Il-2 sturmovik series, and on a fairly amateur base regarding navigation and flying knowledge. In order to design and understand flight instruments and systems on modern aircraft I needed to know how to actually fly an airplane, not just pull the trigger. So I am proud to say I became a moderate navigator and pilot in the Mig-21Bis, and getting better each day :D Takes me more time than your average simmer, because in addition to understanding WHAT each instrument does, I need to understand HOW it does it from the mechanical point of view. So that's it. Just a little patch that might appear to be down time from above the surface, but down below there is a great deal of work, research and preparation being done. Sorry for the boring writeup, I too cannot wait get something real into my hands. Here's some graphic design concepts that also take time and effort do myself:

Wow! That is a beauty! And the sound must have been something too.

"level flight" commands are on the stick, not on the panel. "A" on the keyboard, or push the most right black button on the stick, the "SAU - Recovery". To disengage push the most left red button on the stick, the "SAU cancel current mode" Edit: Buzzles beat me to it with a more detailed info

Hi are there not any keyboard bindings/shortcuts for Radio channel selection, RSBN Navigation channel and PRMG Landing channel selection? I can't seem to find them in the control settings... or am I missing something.

The end stop would not be on the instrument, but rather inside, geared to the number of full revolutions for a specific instrument. So if the altimeter needs 10 full revolutions, I would make a geared end stop inside the instrument after 10 revolutions. As I said, the needle would not be totally fixed, so when it hits the end stop, the needle would stop, but the motor could continue spinning freely without damage. This would allow you to turn the motor 11 revolutions in reverse upon each start of the program, therefore returning the altimeter to zero regardless of its previous position, while using the cheapest non-positional steppers. Pressure and numeric readout would also be mechanical, counter wheel systems, operated by two more steppers. So the altimeter in this case would have 3 steppers altogether. I'll make some examples as soon as my workshop gets operational, so that anyone interested can try to get it working.

Thanks for the lengthy response. A zero point would be a very trivial solution on any stepper motor. The pointer/needle can be put on snug enough so that it stands on it's own, yet loose enough so that it can "free-spin" if it hits a hard stop. That's no problem at all. So you could just have it turn xy full turns backwards at each start of the program so that it hits the zero hard-stop at some point and that would ensure that it's always at zero when starting. No position tracking like that, would allow me to use the cheapest steppers from the link I posted, which are still 1/2 of the price of the auto instrument ones you talk about. No need to even mention customer support or dedicated electronics. If every project started by discussing the final design we wouldn't have any projects at all. All I am asking is if it's possible, and if anyone is interested in taking a crack at it. I'm not asking to have it done today and sell it tomorrow. I can provide the hardware, an altimeter for example, with the motor inside and connections for the arduino and power. That's it, someone else needs to make it work. I would then open source all my cad files and designs and offer the instruments at manufacturing prices (that's zero profit) so that this community can finally have 10-30$ instruments instead of 300$ ones that are available now. Edit: Regarding the force feedback / force loading, the system is identical to a speedometer with a stepper motor. I don't know if it's possible to "disable" damage reporting or something like that, but regardless, it would get it working. And it would be the first of it's kind, very cheap and very simple. So I believe it's worth a try for a first step.

Well, I was thinking of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-DC-5V-Stepper-Motor-ULN2003-Driver-Test-Module-Board-28BYJ-48-for-Arduino-/291349227311?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d5c4672f I haven't seen anyone using them without the driver boards. I read somewhere the limit for servos and steppers and as I recall it could handle more servos than steppers. I could be wrong, it doesn't matter, I don't care, that's for someone else to figure out. Can't discuss the system, as I said it uses steppers, that are moving acording to speed, altitude and other instrument related parameters. That's all you need to know, it works in another simulation and I would love to get it working in dcs. I will not be doing any fabrication of machines, just ordering open source components and assembling it all together. I am not the first one to do it, there are dozens of examples of DIY co2 lasers and plasma cutters. Both of these are machines that are not in direct contact with the material they're working on (the very reason I choose them) so there is absolutely no stress transferred into the frame nor the machine itself. It's pretty straight forward and no extreme tolerances are needed to assemble the machine, nor are extreme tolerances needed to make gaming instruments. I'm not building space shuttles here. CNC routers, mills and lathes are a completely different story, but I don't see me mention building/assembling those. 3D CAD has nothing to do with "designing pretty pictures", especially not my 3d cad designs. 3D rendering on the other hand does. And a 3d render represents less then 1% of the total work on any given 3D CAD designed object of mine. Hence why the "pictures" look so "pretty". Because for the 15 minutes it takes to render it, it took about 1.000 hours to design the 3D CAD model itself. I can do much worse renderings if it would raise your trust in my abilities :D I just thought doing the best 3d cad designed and rendered grips in the world today would do that :doh: Cause I don't see anyone else with a conceived, designed and manufactured prototype of warthog compatible grip. let alone the design and building the complete tools & machinery it took to produce it, and near the quality of work that I aspire to. Not only did I conceive, design and manufacture my product, I actualy conceived, designed and manufactured the complete machinery that machined that product. And every tool/machine for it was cnc, not a single hend held powered instrument was used. And it was all non existent by the way, I had to invent every 3d printing tool/machine myself. Therefore I don't see any reason whatsoever to doubt, nor discuss my abilities. That wasn't my intention. I don't want to clog up the thread. I was simply sending an open invitation, if anyone wants to share the workload, so I don't have to learn dcs-bios myself too, it would take much less time to get this to production. Design, prototyping, spending thousand of $$$ and production are my worries, if anyone want's to worry about simply implementing steppers in dcs-bios, let me know.

Hi guys. As many of you know I am working on low-cost hi-quality instruments and hotas solutions. DCS-bios is very interesting to me because it was the very thing missing, and stopping me from moving forward on the machinery needed to produce replica flight instruments in large quantities. Now that it's here, and kicking but, it's time to go big or go home :) I have parts for a large industrial 2x3 meters laser cutter, and 2x1 meters plasma cutter arriving in a few months, so I've done my part. Now, using cheap mini servos is no problem, and a done deal, as far as I know? But, many of the instruments use continuous rotation, or at least a couple of full rotations, which the cheap servos can't rally provide at decent resolutions. So stepper motors would really be a big improvement. I know they require additional drivers along with an arduino, and that arduino can can't control as many steppers as servos, but these are still very cheap and would open doors to some amazing and affordable hardware. As I understand stepper implementation would require an arduino library to make it work? I'm no programmer but if someone is willing to hassle the task I would be happy to supply him with anything from my lineup of products, in any quantity. With stepper motors implemented, I would also be able to do Force Feedback, or to be more precise Force loading on my joysticks and rudder pedals, through DCS-bios. Also a very hi quality, yet very cheap system that doesn't rely on DirectX and expensive controller boards and software, but on lua export of speed, altitude and some other parameters that dictate flight control "stiffness". But this requires arduino stepper motors. Or Ian, if it's within your capabilities, and would make it worth your time, I would be interested in a commercial license, with a fee involved for every unit sold. I am also open to the possibility of making all the instrument designs open source, so one could take the files to their local laser cutter, thus saving even more $$ and bringing the 10$ per instrument dream closer to reality. So if there's anyone willing to hassle the job of making the arduino library for stepper implementation, speak up. If there's more of you, even better.

The bent pin can be re-aligned with a screwdriver no problem, I've done it a couple of times. The wire cut, and then soldered and protected with a shrink-sleeve. It's a sturdy unit, and every last bit can be replaced with off the shelf parts, even without TM parts. I have my warthog disassembled to the least bit, if you get stuck, take a picture, I'll be glad to help..

This is the beautiful world of 3d printing. I can make it left handed with a single mouse click. It's a 3d model that's produced straight from the printer so no re-tooling or any extra work would be required. Sure, if someone wants a left handed version no problem. Even the throttles, with just slightly different wiring inside.

Nope, nothing special about the resin. "Obstacle" because right now I'm buying it and it's probably xy times more expensive then mixing my own. The shipping and import duties alone would cut the cost in half. It's better then usual 3d printing materials because usual material is ABS fillament, that's all the hobby market is talking about. And when someone said "it's just a 3d printed part" they were referring to ABS filament and comparing this to that could not be more wrong.

I'm not waiting on this newest tech. I should have 10,000 unit capability within a month or two. At this point delays happen when a component arrives broken and I have to spend a a few weeks e-mailing, and a few weeks waiting on replacements. That's it. There's no more major breakthroughs or problems to overcome. Just stupid delays like the laser cutter the other day. I was supposed to be cutting and making instruments, but the laser arrived broken, and after 2 weeks of e-mails I have to wait another month on replacement parts.

Yes I do, but I am buying it from a supplier. Now, I can mix my own which can further reduce the cost of production.

Here's the situation. I can start right now, right this moment. I'll make you a grip and pedals in a few days, and then someone else will want one. And another one and so on. And before you know it, I'm stuck making a couple of products each week, with no time on improving the production process. I can't stop because I'm making profit, but I can't go forward either because I've reached my quantity limits... This is the situation with every single (small) simulation gear maker today. I will not go down that path. Waiting lists and pre-orders are not my dream, and is not the path that leads to 60$ grips. 10,000 pieces per month. That's the goal. Potential pieces of course, I won't manufacture that much without the market to support it, but I want that potential. I don't know if it's destiny :) but: 1) today a company revealed a patent for a 3d printing system that is 100 (one hundred) times faster than what I have right now, which was already two times faster than anything else. and with surface finish quality unimaginable until today. I only have to modify my system slightly to get to that level. 2) a major player released it's resin recipe under open source license just a couple of days ago If you read my last post about 60$ resin grips. There were two obstacles holding them back. The very two I just mentioned, DIY resin and faster printing. They're solved now. So hang in there, the magic show is about to start, just not today. But not so far as to be next year either. It will be monthly improvements and giant leaps forward.

Servos and steppers are starting to arrive. I'm still waiting on arduinos. But the laser cutter I was going to use came with a broken laser tube so I'm waiting on a replacement. Well, it was never easy so I'm kind of used to stupid things like that by now. I will also use my industrial 3d printing machine for many of the parts here, so it's all kind of tied up and one project cannot get off the ground before the other. But it's happening...

Plug'n'play

but that is what I'm doing Just replacing warthog electronics, hats and triggers, and just manufacturing an F-18 shell By the way, this cannot really be called "plastic". It's not heat melted ABS, that cheap 1mm thick crap you get from the store shelf. It's a liquid resin, cold hardened by a chemical reaction. Just like the real F-18 grip. It is NOT 3D printed plastic. That 1.500$ hobby ABS 3d printers have nothing at all to do with my machine. Not even the 3-6.000$ SLA commercial 3d printers are close to mine. I started with a 10.000$ machine, and printed this first prototype grip on a 2nd generation machine which will probably be 15-20.000$ when it comes out. Final products will be manufactured on a large, industrial 2x3m 3d station which will probably be 300.000$ - 500.000$ from the manufacturer. These are machines used by Mercedes, General electric, Boeing and alike. I am part of the development team, and it just so happens I am a simulation buff, and will be using my example to produce simulation gear. My shell is 4-5 mm thick now, and it will probably be completely solid on the final product. Before I put it on for sale, I will post videos of me running the grips over with my car, and then plugging them back in and continuing like nothing happened. Try that with your saitek or suncom... You know, I started all of this only because I wanted metal grips for my self. Now that I have the hardened resin grip in my hands, a very logical question presents itself. This thing is indestructible. As it's 4-5mm thick, or completely solid, it weighs the same or more than warthog grip. It feels nothing like the cheap, squeaky and thin cheap Chinese plastic. It has that colder metal feel to it. And the surface texture is not glossy and shiny, but has a slightly rough texture to it, just like something military/stealth like. So here's the thing that concerns me (keep in mind, I am the biggest fan of hardcore, realistic, metal replicas you will ever find): Process for manufacturing the cold hardened resin grips: 1) 5-10 days CAD designing and printing preparation 2) straight to manufacturing and sales no paining, no additional treatment whatsoever so from concept to production of 10.000 pieces in 1 month no additional equipment to further drain me financially and time wise product price 120$, down to 60$ (and less!) as I start ordering electronics and materials in bulk no waiting lists! Sell today, ship tomorrow! that's it! 2 steps, bam! done! Now, here's the process for manufacturing the aluminum cast grips: 1) 5-10 days CAD designing the grip 2) 5-10 days CAD designing the master molds 3) 5-10 days CAD designing the sand molds 4) Build a home made aluminum melting pot 5) Melt and cast first examples, look at mistakes 6) return and re-do steps 2 and 3 7) Melt and cast again 8 )repeat as many times until I get good castings 9) Cut and sand leftovers 10) Drilling and tapping all the screw holes 11) Painting casting requires silicon master molds, $$$ in equipment additional treatment requires painting equipment, more $$$ drilling and tapping requires even more $$$ from concept to final product in 3-6 months for each new model product price 120$ - 200$ regardless of quantity, less than 100 pieces/month waiting lists / I. Hate. Waiting lists. So, with the cold hardened resin F-18 grip (like the real one!) being so good, is it worth it to go the metal route just to get something that might be 25% bettter in terms of a more metal "feel"? That will also be 300% more expensive, 600% more time consuming and can be produced in 1000% less quantities? And will be less realistic than the real thing ?? *that's the fact that bothers me the most. All that extra work to make it less realistic :doh: I am all for metal grips, that's why I started this, but I need to start selling the resin ones first as they are literally 95% less work to manufacture, and at the same time being more true to the real thing than the aluminum one would be. As I said, I'll post some torture tests first, so you can see just how amazing and tough this stuff is. Like throwing them form a building, and running them over with my car. Then on to sending samples to some reviewers and testers to get their opinion. Then releasing the resin grips for sale and making the whole project self sustainable financially. Then, moving on to aluminum casting.

That would be moi :music_whistling: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104154