mrsylvestre

Yes, I was also surprised yesterday by the performance in Godlike with just quadviews and 72 Hz. In fact, adding other tricks such as FSR@85% and forced lower resolution at around 3000x3000 with OXRTK did not really yield further gains.

Considering that your signature mentions an RTX 4090, I'd go for VD. 1. Yes ! 2. Not sure about that. 3. Not worth it with a 4090. I observe that most if not all those who report better performance in Oculus rather than SteamVR/OpenXR seem to have older GPU's (1080s, 2070s).One caveat: wifi is great for the freedom of movement (no pesky cable, although it is not that much of an issue for flight sims) but limits the gameplay duration (battery). Of course, you can still keep the headset connected to an USB port, charge or powerpack while streaming through wifi (VD does not officially support streaming through USB, hacks that allow this are often not stable).

AMD GPU in my signature, no FFR with OXRTK in DCS's DX11. That is why I use QuadViews. That said, I do use FFR from OXRTK in MSFS2020 (DX12 mode), but I must say DCS QuadViews look better, because the high resolution central zone blends more nicely with the low resolution peripheral zone. I can't do an apple to apple comparison, though, because MSFS2020 does not support quadviews. Perhaps it may be worth to someone with an NVidia GPU to compare both options in DCS. I suspect that performance might be improved, because OXRTK's implementation of FFR is generic while QuadViews is being developed specifically for apps like DCS which are "quadviews-aware". If anyone is interested, here is my "settings.cfg" file for the Pico 4 (to be put in ..\AppData\Local\Quad-Views-Foveated) # These settings are for all headsets and applications smoothen_focus_view_edges=0.2 sharpen_focus_view=0.0 [SteamVR] # These settings are specific to SteamVR devices such as Pico 4 peripheral_multiplier=0.4 focus_multiplier=1.1 horizontal_fixed_section=0.5 vertical_fixed_section=0.45 turbo_mode=0 [app:DCS World] # The settings are specific to the app "DCS World" # (no particular settings here, some are shifting focus upwards with vertical_focus_offset=0.1) The setting sharpen_focus_view = 0.0 might seem odd (default is 0.7) but my thinking is there is anyway a sharpening pass done afterwards by VD so I might as well avoid sharpening on top of sharpening Sound advice about using 72 Hz mode in VD when trying to maintain 72 fps, thanks. I'm nearly there with fps now in the high 60's - low 70's after dropping view distance in DCS from high to medium.

On VD discord, one user has shown a screenshot of the current DCS-MT running with the Oculus API (VD emulates the Oculus runtime). To achieve that, he apparently renamed his SteamVR folder (presumably so that DCS can't find a steamVR/OpenXR runtime). No use of the registry edit was mentioned. Currently, I am still using VD (godlike settings) with steamVR/OpenXR and I tune performance with OpenXR Toolkit (force resolution to around 3040x3040 per eye with 85% FSR so that DCS renders at about 2584x2584 per eye) and MBucchia's QuadView foveated rendering tool on top of that (it's designed for DFR on eye-tracking headsets but also works for FFR on the Pico 4). I get acceptable results with VD's retroprojection (@45 FPS) with very limited ghosting. Still playing with the settings in the hope of achieving 72 FPS without retroprojection and with acceptable image quality.

1. The OpenXR runtime provided by steamVR is is to my knowledge the only one available for the Pico 4. 2. I'd be happy to know as well, as streaming assistant was working for me in the past but doesn't anymore (DCS stuck with the clouds window, does not enter the Mig hangar in VR or the main menu in 2D). Not much of an issue as I use VD but I'd like to know if I broke something in my PC software of if I just don't remember the correct procedure for SA.

FWIW, Pico 4 provides performance that is acceptable (to me, with ~medium DCS settings) with a 5800X3D and 6950XT, using Virtual Desktop as streamer, with VD's retroprojection (45 FPS), capping the resolution around 2840x2840 per eye and 85% FSR using MBucchia OpenXR toolkit. A good connection with the PC is essential, either through an USB-Ethernet adapter or with a dedicated WIFI router. As mentioned above by QCumber, getting the settings right is quite an endeavour, but to me the compromises I have to make to be "in the sim" rather than "watching the sim on the screen" are worth it. And there lies trouble: I can't go back to the flat screen but I have to live with those compromises until 4090 performance becomes (more) affordable with the next gen GPUs, hopefully.

Very good summary of the VR proposition.

I have a 6950XT but I run it undervolted *and* underclocked (not the memory) to 6900XT level because I like my PC's to be as close to silent as possible. Pico 4 is quite usable with Virtual Desktop "high" to "ultra" settings (not "godlike") and ~medium settings in DCS. This is with VD's retroprojection at 45/90 FPS so you might have a bit of ghosting when a bandit is at your 3 or 9 o'clock. I wouldn't use a PICO 4 for DCS (or MSFS) with less than a 6900XT, though, and I fly single (no multiplayer). CPU is a 5800x3d @ 114/75/115 PPT/TDC/EDC (also to limit fan rpm). A G2 should provides a bit more performance as it can skip the encoding to h.264 (h.265 doesn't work well on AMD with VD at this time) but it comes with a much narrower sweet spot. The Pico's pancake lenses provide clarity across practically your entire FOV. Factor in the cost of VD (19.99, sometimes 14.99 on sale) and a basic ac or ax dedicated router (45.00 - 120.00) to be installed close to your PC (which can open another can of worms depending on your existing network setup). Check VD's discord for a list of recommended routers. Depending on the shape of your face, you might also want an aftermarket facial interface for better comfort, that would be another 25.00. Setting everything to your liking can also take up some time. In your position, if I couldn't trial the Pico from a seller with a good return policy I would probably wait for the G2 to die and see what will be available at that time (the worse that could happen is a fall/autumn sale on Pico 4). I am happy with my Pico and my setup, there is no turning back to my 2D ultrawide monitor and head tracker and I cannot see a wired headset in my future after experiencing the freedom of wireless, but sometimes I wish I had a 4090 to use the Pico 4 closer to its full potential in DCS.

Yes, even though it doesn't make sense to me at all. I can have a perfectly fine session on the evening with DCS (MT) using the OpenXR API with the SteamVR runtime (for the Pico 4) and the next morning, with absolutely no update of DCS, Windows, the streamer app, Steam VR, GPU drivers, headset or anything in between, DCS would stubbornly remain stuck on the initial loading screen until I close steamVR after 10 min, then it starts in 2D / flatscreen. And then on later attempts it sometimes would work again. Until it doesn't anymore. Without changing one single parameter. PC is not overclocked in any way (the only reason I would understand to cause inconsistent behaviour) and works fine with MSFS (which also uses OpenXR), IL-2, VTOL VR, racing sims,... Perhaps some sort of race condition being triggered? I can see that in the windows performance monitor, two cores alternatively go two 100% load every 2 seconds (when one is at 100% the other is at 0% and vice-versa). Again, DCS is the only software that triggers that behaviour.

I think that if you have DCS standalone and no steam, no steamVR, no WMR,... installed but just Virtual Desktop (VD, as streamer) DCS will use Oculus mode for VR. I had it running like that once, even though I never installed anything from Oculus on my PC. Nowadays, I use steamVR which DCS sees as the OpenXR runtime (no special setup, vanilla install, everything in steamVR left to auto or default and DCS started without any special command line options) and VD as streamer on high or ultra (with a 6950xt). Currently, I don't use MSAA in DCS options but set Pixel Density to 1.3 in the VR tab. I can get 36 or 45 fps with VD's SSW (which, I understand it, is retroprojection done on the HMD side rather than on the PC side), depending on the settings in the system tab of DCS options (tip: start with the VR preset and build your favorite settings from that). Between the need to optimise the link between the PC and the Pico 4 and then all the possible settings in the streamer, steamVR and DCS, it can be quite a journey to VR bliss.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link.

Yes. The single threaded version can work with the Oculus runtime, without Steam VR. For that, you have to launch the ../bin/dcs.exe from within virtual desktop via the "launch game..." contextual menu from the VD icon in the system tray, to the right of the windows taskbar (if you launch it through the start menu or from the file explorer, it will default to Steam VR). Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think that it is possible with the multithreaded version. Note that you don't need anything in addition to VD to use the Oculus runtime (I never installed any Oculus software).

Option 1 : If connecting the two routers without a cable is unpractical, you can have your PC connected to both your main router (via WIFI) and the dedicated router (wired) at the same time. The VR device is connected wirelessly to the dedicated router. It is important that the two routers are accessed through different SSIDs (e.g. MYHOMENETWORK and MYHOMENETWORKVR), so that the traffic between the PC and the internet goes through the main router (e.g. for streaming MSFS2020 scenery to the PC) and the dedicated router is used exclusively between your VR device and your PC (to stream the video). As the VR device is confined to the local network of the dedicated router, it cannot access the wider internet (not a problem if using Streaming Assistant but Virtual Desktop will not work). Option 2 : Adapters exist that can provide WIFI connection to a device (e.g. a PC) that only has a wired network interface and no wifi card (look for "travel router", such as the TP-Link TL-WR902AC or "WIFI extenders" that have a port for a network cable and a feature called "client mode"). You can connect one of these to the WAN port of the dedicated router so that it can link through WIFI to the main router. Neat, but at the cost of an additional device. Option 3: do not change anything to your network. Connect your Pico 4 via USB to your PC and use Streaming Assistant which is now much better than it was when the product was launched even though it is still lagging a bit behind Virtual Desktop in features. Additional benefit: the USB connection limits the battery discharge. But you will be tethered to your PC with a USB cable. Option 3b (not for the faint hearted): Instead of Streaming Assistant, use ALVR through ethernet over USB. You need an ALVR nightly (the release version does not support the PICO 4 yet) and to install the Pico Setting apk on your device to make it appear as an hotspot to your PC (so that the VR device will appear to have an IP address, which is needed for the ALVR link) use the instructions and batch script found here. Sorry if all of this sounds a bit convoluted, because it is. Life would have been much easier if the creator of VD had allowed an USB connection to the Pico 4, but his choice of copy protection scheme unfortunately prevents that.

You just wire the WAN port of your dedicated router to one of the LAN ports of your main router and the network port of your PC to one of the LAN ports of the dedicated router. Then you create a 5GHz WIFI network on the dedicated router (with a distinct SSID from your main router e.g. HOMEWIFIVR) and connect the PICO 4 to that. In other words, you have two routers in cascade, your PC is connected by wire to the second one, which is also the one the PICO 4 connects to. For good performance, the dedicated router should be in the same room as the VR setup. The dedicated router doesn't need to be WIFI 6, a $40 good ac one is enough, you only need ~ 150 Mbps. The wired connection between the dedicated and main router is not strictly necessary if you don't need internet access while you play. Virtual Desktop needs internet though, for its copy protection scheme.

Thank you very much, Sebastian! I will try that when I get a chance, next weekend. *** Edit after the weekend *** Confirmed, Sebastian's settings above are a very good basis to start using ALVR on the PICO 4. I found that ALVR is perhaps a little bit more picky about the quality of the link between the HMD and the PC than Virtual Desktop, but it works very well with a dedicated 40€ router (a good 5 GHz AC one can be sufficient as long as it can sustain a stable 150 Mbps, Wi-Fi 6 AX is not required) or through ethernet over USB. Thanks again.

Thank you but that is what I already use (alvr_client_android.apk), and I also use the corresponding nightly build of the server on the PC, downloaded yesterday as well. Sorry if that was ambiguous. The performance is not that great on my end, though. By default, it seems to default to very low bitrates, I have to force higher rates in the advanced settings to get better results. It could be that my wifi connection is not good enough (it is a dedicated router, PC wired, but it is wifi 5 ac, not wifi 6 ax). However for some reason Virtual Desktop seems to tolerate it better than ALVR does. Perhaps I should try ALVR over USB (opening another can of worms ;-))

Hi Sebastian, thank you for suggesting ALVR ! Please could your share your experience with it ? Which version did you use and could you share what you found to be the most important settings in ALVR and which values you did put in ? I managed to install ALVR on my PC and Pico 4 and while its works reasonably well over WIFI in the SteamVR Home and racing games after some tuning, it is still inferior to vanilla VD (godlike)/SteamVR on MSFS2020 and DCS. I used one of the latest nightlies (ALVR v20.0.0-dev11) as the latest release version from February only seems to include a client for the Quest (alvr_client_quest.apk). With the default settings, the bandwith used was quite low (10-30 Mbit/s) and the display was very blocky. Forcing the bandwith to ~90-150 Mbits/s with the min/max bandwith settings improves things a lot in SteamVR Home and games (quality close to VD) but not so much in flight sims (resolution still not that good, stutter and, in DCS, flashing menus and the occasional crash). Also, the current nightlies have one general preset for the resolution (such as low - medium - high etc) and two advanced resolution settings : one called "transcoding view resolution" and one called "emulated headset view resolution" but I don't know what these do (or if I should even touch these...).

Edit: 6950xt, not 7950xt (brain fart, spent too much time with a VR HMD on lately) 7950xt 6950xt here, but undervolted and limited boost freq to 2350 MHz, so about equivalent to your 7900xt about equivalent to a 6900xt, which is inferior to a 7900xt. CPU is a 5800x3d. I get very fluid gameplay with reasonable IQ with a PICO 4. VR default preset graphics in DCS settings, streaming via USB using Pico's Streaming Assistant with the "HD" preset. Only installed SteamVR at this point, I have yet to play with other link, streaming options and composers/API's (wifi, virtual desktop, OpenXR etc). Just don't expect the same image resolution and scenery complexity in VR than what you are used to with the flat screen. What is near you, e.g. your cockpit or that bandit in your crosshairs will be very well rendered, landscape at mid/far range will be more blurry/hazy. Currently, VR is a tradeoff: immersion is incredible with the sense of depth making dogfights, formation flying and landings much easier, IQ is obviously lower than 2D because there are a lot of pixels to push to the HMD and inherent limitations of current VR hardware.

Issue is still there mid-October 2022. Certainly not making the module bad, but a bit frustrating nonetheless. Would be nice if this could be fixed.

Saddened by the passing away of a great pioneer in this hobby. Thank you Sir for the countless hours of flight-sim enjoyment you made possible. RIP.

My (default, working) settings here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1690549&postcount=47

Yes (assuming that "right" is as in BS1 and BS2 pre-DCS World 1.2.2, which is OK for me) Here we go: first go to "options", there are three tabs that need your attention. In tab "Controls", show "Axis Commands" (left drop-list close to the top), click on your joystick X or Y axis then click the "FF TUNE" button (bottom). Start with default values for "Trimmer force" (100) and "Shake" (50). For the G940, "swap axis", "invert X" and "invert Y" should be left unchecked. In tab "Misc.", tick the "Force Feedback enabled" checkbox. In tab "Special", "Central position trimmer mode" should be left unchecked In Logitech Profiler, all force settings are at 100%, I just disable the centering spring (with the checkbox, not the slider). Et voilà... Hope this helps!

Not sure about what you mean exactly. Should the stick become limp when the trim button is pressed ? To me, the current behaviour (zeroing the forces at the current position when the trim button is pressed) is what I expect. Besides, it worked light that in the standalone BS1 and BS2 and also in DCSWorld before the infamous 1.2.2 bug, if I am correct. -- PS. Useful mods there in your signature, thanks !

It is fixed (in 1.2.3) :)

Fixed in 1.2.3 This bug is fixed in 1.2.3 ! Logitech G940 seems not to be all that bad, after all :music_whistling: Well done, ED and thanks ! :)