foxbat155

Beamscanner, we already had here discussion about this. Russian specialists from "Fazothron" ( radar creator ) called RP-23 a "pulse doppler with external coherency" and they considered this device as a "pulse doppler". Believe me or not but they don't care what was said by some dude from USA, so please give a break.... .

Fishbed had 4 generations; 1. generation: F, F-13 type 72, F-13 type 74, U type 400, U type 600, 2. generation: PF, PFS, PFM, FL, R, US, 3. generation: S, SM, SMT, M, MF, MT, UM, 4. generation: BIS type 75A, BIS type 75B

This must be written: Many people comparing Soviet RSBN to western TACAN system but those are totally DIFFERENT stuff. TACAN is "only" radio beacon receiver with distance measuring channel, RSBN ( under this name we have several systems like RSBN-2S, RSBN-5S, RSBN-6S, A-321, A-324 etc) is a navigation calculating complex, which use "dead reckoning" concept. In every RSBN type main basic mode is automonous mode when system is calculating aircraft position with data taken from aircraft's systems ( like speed, drifts, course, etc), but because this kind of navigation have growing error during flight time ( because all of on-board instrument have some own error, and those errors are cumulating in RSBN) navigation complex need some kind of correction and this correction in RSBN system is provided by ground radio-stations in "correction" mode. RSBN-5S in "correction" mode have accuracy 200 m in distance measurement and 2 deg in angular measurement. So generally RSBN is calculating aircraft's position all the time and when radio signal is achievable then RSBN correcting own calculations.

Yes, Ramsay have right, RSBN-5S works with true geographic radials not with magnetic radials. Course system KSI feeding RSBN-5S with magnetic radials and then those are changed to geographical in magnetic correction device. Of course this system is not super precise, but precise enough in late 60's. Many Soviets aircrafts of that era had the same, identical RSBN-5S system, so shouldn't be any differences in work between them ( L-39, MiG-21Bis, Su-15T/TM, Su-17/M/Su-20). So far only L-39 have proper implementation, still few things can be improved, but generally L-39 is a point of reference for (I hope) future Bis improvements in navigation area.

Soviets didn't have to and what is more important didn't wanna to convince anybody because till today docs about those old radars are secret. For sure they wanted keep in secret almost all theys achievments because then is much easier suprise and defeat people/nations thinking stereotypes. They get the same goals with different way. Well, that your right to do this, and I'm sure that NIIR ( S-23 creator) have the same way of thinking about Lincolns Lab theorems. They called this radar: doppler-pulse with external coherency and I respect this, especially that in DCS is impossible to catch differences between radar with external and internal coherency due game engine limitations. Do you have any technical description of S-23 radar ( no important which variant) ?

According pdf you attached, initial serial AN/APG-66 were delivered in June 1978, for comparison RP-23 development started in 1964 and first production radar show up in 1969 with MiG-23 "model 1969" production (RP-23L).

I think that biggest weakness of this design was analog computer, probably much slower like digital, but this is radar from end of 60's so complaining is misplaced. F-16's radar is 10 years younger at least, and over that time digital techniques did big step forward. Lot of info in Osprey Dual 72 and many others is just bullshits, even today is hard to get access to full RP-23 documentation. R-24 had almost 50 km range ( not used in Iraq ), target like F-15 was tracked "head on" from distance 60 km ( at med and high altitude ), and one more thing: weapon system of MiG-23MLA is a combination of two systems - radar and IR, and basic metod was hidden observation by IR supported by special low profile radar mode. During tests IR was tracking aircrafts with afterburner typically from 90 km, kind of champion was MiG-25 when flown with afterburners, because TP-26 was able see her from 120 km.

I know this discussion and I know Mr.Detonator, we had lot of interesting discussions about MiG-21 and 23 on polish forums ( he is from Czech ). You only picked up one of this discussions points of view: which terminology is more correct - Western or Soviet, because in many cases both sides use the same words for differents things. According Soviet terminology RP-23 is a coherent pulse-doppler radar with external coherency. It's uses doppler filters to analyze/process signal, some people says that only radars with internal coherence can be called pulse-doppler but this is only matter of terminology. Technically this radar use doppler techniques only implemented different way, but without those techniques wasn't possible achieve development targets and because doppler filters playing here main role so radar is doppler-pulse.

Su-25 had weapon system taken from Su-17M3, which was development of system fitted in Su-17M2......:music_whistling: which was the same like in MiG-23B/BN so yes stuff from Su-25 is a bit more advanced. Photo of ASP-17 symbology, you have to be aware that MiG-23B have ASP-17, Su-25 have ASP-17BC which are very different devices which use the same optical head S-17VG : All MiG-23 variants had afterburner, difference was in engine types.

No, no any kind of DMT on MiG-23B/BN, this aircraft is from 1971....., Pepin yes this is little weird but MiG-23B/BN don't have AAM's, MiG-27 had them, Su-17 of any variant had them but B/BN don't.:joystick:

First: is hard call MiG-23B/BN weapon system a "Prnk". This abbreviation means "Navigation and aiming kompleks" and in Soviet terminology means attack and navigations devices connected in one system by central processing unit. In MiG-23B we don't have central computer so no "Prnk" but two separate navigation and attack systems connected by some funcionality. Two main electronic systems on MiG-23B's board are: Sokol-23 attack system ( Sokol-23S for MiG-23B and Sokol-23N for MiG-23BN ) and navigation kompleks KN-23. Sokol-23S had five main parts: shooting sight ASP-17 with optical head S-17VG and analog-digital processing unit, bombing sight PBK-3-23S, laser rangefinder "Fon" ("Background") and defence suite with SPO-10 RHAW, SPS-141 "Siren-1FSh" jammer, SB-1 "Barier"( "Barrier" or "Obstacle") radar location system and guided missiles system "Delta-N". System was working in 8 main modes for shooting ( canon, ffar) and bombing ( horizontal, dive and climb flights ). All modes can be use in automatic and manual mode, and part of them with target visible or not visible. Navigation kompleks KN-23 had: IKV inertial platform, doppler speed and drift angle radar DISS-7, V-144 analog computer, RSBN-6S and PRMG-4 aircraft's subsystems, PVD-18 air data system, DUA-3 AOA system, RV-5 radar altimeter and emergency ARK-10 or 15 system. KN-23 had possibilty to program 4 airfields and 3 route points, and 1 radio-orientation point. System is able work without ( autonomous mode ) or with radio correction from RSBN system. With SAU-23B AFCS is able do automatic route flight, return to airfield and landing up to 50-60 m altitude. MiG-23B/BN takes up to 3000 kg of weapons, have max range 3100 km (clean configuration plus 3 external fuel tanks, 10k altitude ), combat radius at 200 m altitude with 1000 kg bombs is 610 km, with 3000 kg - 400 km, max speed at 200 m with 1000 kg bombs - 1350 km/h, with 3000 kg - 1000km/h.

Overstratos have right, S-23 is doppler pulse radar, first of this class in Soviet Union. With MiG-25 situation is bit more complicated: first fighter variant MiG-25P had pulse radar RP-25A2 or A4 "Smierch", later variants MiG-25PD/PDS had scaled up variant of Flogger's N-003 called N-005 "Saphir"-25 (RP-25M or later MN). Only AA weapon for BN is canon, no AAM's on this variant.

During Soviet Union times only those 5 for Bulgaria. Weaponry for MiG-23ML/MLA according manual:

Only case when original MLD were exported during USSR existence was bulgarian case ( 5 aircraft swapped for 4 MiG-25 ). After Soviet Union collapse several used aircrafts withdrawn from service in former SU republics inventory were sold to Syria and Angola. According some sources few ex-Soviet MLD's were donated to Libya lately, but no photo evidence.

Yea, that's meters per second.

Yea, differences in aerodynamic capabilities between MiG-23's variants were quite big. Here few examples: AOA normal and stall limit (local AOA). Wing load and thrust/weight ratio. Climb speed. Acceleration from 600 to 1000 km/h. According russian sources during tests MiG-23MLD was able achieve 45 deg local AOA, normal service AOA safe limit was set to local 33 deg.

No, those are standard P-61-1 launchers for R60/60M family, over "oridinary" MiG-23ML/MLA those aircafts have only N-008E radar, R-24 missiles, SPO-15, and probably modernized KN-23-1 nav system instead standard KN-23, last aircrafts even maybe "Klistron" nav system but no photos of cockpits so this is hard to verificate.

Bulgarian MLAE2: Libyan MLAE2: and Syrian MLAE2: those aircrafts had radar called N-0008E what suggesting export variant ( E from экспортная what means for export ) of MLD's N-008, but for sure was downgraded in ranges, search angles and work speed: Instrument panel photo of libyan MLAE2: Most WP MiG-23MF even wasn't wired for R-60/R-60M family, in case of Polish AF only last batch had all equipment for them, all earliers had to be rebuilt later after 1985, no one export MiG-23ML hadn't R-60M in their weaponry, only oridinary R-60's, R-60M was sold abroad first time with MiG-29 exclusively, for countries like India or Yugoslavia started with 1986. So no one from WP countries, had in inventory short range all aspect dogfight missile before 1989 when MiG-29 showed up.

Bulgaria, like Syria and Libia, got export downgraded MLD's variant, which official name was MiG-23MLAE2 or "product 23-22" (no aerodynamical changes, no chaff/flare dispensers, heavilly downgraded radar, no R-73 missiles, extra SPO-15 in place of SPO-10), and later those five extra original full MLD's. How I know?. Because in first place Soviets wanted control those countries, not make them partners. Soviets were pushing WP countries to stop many local arms creating initiatives, trying to make them completely dependent on their own supplies. In every WP country Soviets had several military bases, so local forces reinforcement wasn't so important and Soviets always had equipment one generation forward. One example: R-60 ( not R-60M ) show up in Soviet inventory in 1973, in rest airforces of WP in 1985..........twelve years later. Every contract with USSR was one big unknown, you never know what you will get and with what standard. Great example are our Polish Su-22's, we got part of them without chaff/flare system because Soviets need them to quick equip their aircrafts and helicopters in Afganistan, they promised send them later but this never happend.

Soviets didn't had any intend to reinforce any WP army over any comfortable for them level. In 1982 Bulgaria bought three MiG-25RB and one MiG-25RU, but because those aircrafts were expensive in service and they had only four of them, and because economy problems in late 80's, those were swaped with USSR for five MiG-23 in 1991. At that moment Floggers were out of production ( end in 1985 ), and Soviets hads in service only MLD so this variant went for a swap. From original MLA's, only iraqi aircrafts were modernized with SPO-15 during Iran-Iraq war.

MiG-25RBT have general electronic recce system called SRS-13, this equipment don't have data link for data sending, whole recce info is recorded on magnetic tape. Variants like MiG-25RBK and RBF are equipped with more capable electronic recce systems and have data links.

Illumination bombs for ordinary films and infrared films without those bombs.

This is autopilot control panel, Peleng panel is on the right side wall of cockpit. Here on the photo you can see distance counter from Peleng's set.

When bombs fell in 600 m X 400 m area pilot had "very good" score in his flight book, but honestly this wasn't his success, everything was about target's localization accuracy, flight plan and nav computer programming quality, good technical nav systems condition, because everything was automatic, manual mode anticipating only fire button press by pilot, because the rest was automatic anyway....... .

Method described by you was in use only with S-5, S-24 and GSh-23, bombs in MiG-21 are dropped exclusively manually according drop tables and manual ASP settings.