flyer49

I have to admit, I too get lazy and get my self into a situation that's not desirable. I found that flying the real UH-1 was a workout and after every flight I felt tired. This is why I like flying the DCS Huey...when I complete a mission...I feel like I just finished a workout...especially if there was a lot of hovering or orbiting required to compete the mission. This is when I let my guard down and get lazy causing bad things to happen...lol

Hi jay43...I'd be willing to bet your successful in your approaches then not. I look forward to flying with you on multi-play.

I flew UH-1's during the eighties and we still had the Vietnam era airframes in our unit. I remember one mission where we were doing the pre-flight I asked one of the older more experienced pilots what all the small 4" x 4" patches were. They were everywhere, on the deck, in the tail boom...everywhere. His response were...they were small arms fire patches received during firefights in Veitnam. Most of our air frames had the patches and I always had respect for the staying power of the UH-1 because of this.

Hi jay43...I don't think your wrong. In my Army career I knew a lot of Vietnam pilots and they love to regale you with there explotes. I did hear about the UH-1 blades being used to clear LZ of light brush and tree's. I've also heard of very unique techniques used to get a over max load into the air. The UH-1 was used and abused during war time and still stayed in the air and this is why it's such an iconic aircraft...it would take a licking and keep on ticking. When I went through training, we were taught that tree strikes didn't necessarily mean we were going to crash and burn but of course it didn't do the blades a lot of good. I've heard stories of the rotor system being pretty torn up from tree strikes and small arms fire and getting crew and passengers back to safety. We were taught that when necessary do what you have to get the job done, even if that meant clearing the LZ with your blades.

I stand corrected...I had to go back to my aerodynamics manual and look it up and you are correct.

Hi marker...I will be happy to make a video when I figure our how to make the video. If you can instruct me on how to make the video, I will do so.

I have to agree with the author of the video. The UH-1 had a ridged rotor system...this means that the rotor system acted as a rocker (when one blade went down the other went up...they were dependent of each other). You can feel and hear the vibrations...it's part of learning to control the beast. It might be slightly exaggerated in DCS but it's still there...like it or not. I also was qualified on the UH-60A and most other advanced helicopters like the AH-64 had an articulated rotor system (all blades acted independently of the other blades), this dampened the effects of ETL. This is also why these type of airframes can do aerobatic maneuvers and UH-1's can't (i.e. mast bumping). As for VNE, that is when you get into "retreating blade stall". This is where forward airspeed is such that the blade moving forward is achieving greater lift than the retreating blade that is achieving less lift (stalling).... EDITED: See Madcat's definition as accurate information.

I've never heard of Vietnam pilots bouncing an aircraft form a hover but I don't dought it. They were know to use a lot of unique techniques to fly the earlier UH-1's. The A/B/C models were underpowered and I have talked to a few Vietnam era pilots and had them tell me that they would sliding down a runway (sort of a running takeoff but with skids) throwing cargo out until they achieved sufficient airspeed and weight for takeoff. It would seem that if they can achieve a hover then they have enough power for takeoff...I'd love to see this episode.

Hi thrawn...I'm more of a visual pilot like you. The way I would explain the graph in visual terms is that when doing an approach not only should you keep your forward speed at around 20 to 30 kts and vertical descent around 300 ft/min but also pick a spot on your windscreen about five or six inches above your instrument panel. Pick a spot that's easily tracked like the hash marks at the end of the runway or an intersection, Hold that spot during your approach by increasing and decreasing your collective as necessary. That would be about a 20 degree approach angle. The closer your selected target landing spot get to your instrument panel the steeper your getting and entering the danger area where settling with power exists. As you can see by the graph this danger area is from an angle of 40 (which would be about where the top of your instrument panel is) to 80 degrees (which is about where you would be looking through your chin bubble ...maybe even through your pedals). You should never come to a hover before touchdown. A proper approach to the ground is just that...an approach to the ground. You should "fly" your helicopter to the ground by always moving forward. Don't try to "find" the ground...just fly the aircraft until you touch down. My instructor use to tell me...forward and down...forward and down...forward and down. I still say this to myself today and it helps me remember how to make a proper approach. As I said in an earlier post, your approach may seem exaggerated and exceedingly slow but that is the way a helicopter makes an approach (unless your doing a combat approach which is a much higher speed but still slow in comparison to a fixed wing approach). I bring up fixed wing because fixed wing driver are use to higher approach speeds and steeper approach angles so your approach sight picture is different and this causes fixed wing guys some anguish...I hope this help explain the above graph.

Now Vlerkies that was not nice...he he

The UH-1H was a very stable platform. When you refer to Chickenhawk your talking about the earlier versions like the A/B/C versions which were grossly underpowered. There are many accounts of the earlier versions having to bounce down the runway and throwing cargo out to get the right take-off weight so that they could get the aircraft into the air. The DCS version is the one that I flew in the Army and had plenty of power. For the most part it was quite stable. It was so heavy (max weight 9040 lbs) that it could take a lot of cross wind and remain in a relatively stable at a hover. As for the throttle control...you didn't have to manipulate the throttle in the UH-1 because the RPM's remained constant unlike the TH-55 "Osage" trainers (the aircraft that we learned on in the 80's and was called the Hughes 300 in the civilian world) that required manipulation of the throttle as you increased and decreased the collective to keep the engine from over-speeding. Julian I must agree with you that the DCS model is the best flight model available for those who want to get a feel for the real UH-1H.

Wow…I'm fatigued just reading this thread

I have over 2000 hours in the UH-1H and have seen and heard (you can hear it) the vibrations that accompany the transition to forward flight. The vibrations are not as pronounced or as prolonged as they appear in the DCS version but I just take this as they're attempt to show that it exists and can be felt in the seat of your pants. There is little to no vibration in the controls and the thing that I miss most is the slight dip that the airframe makes during the transition. To me, this dip indicated the transition from hover to forward flight while going through ETL. Below is a short tutorial of the ETL aerodynamic effect. I hope it help... Translational lift The efficiency of the hovering rotor system is improved with each knot of incoming wind gained by horizontal movement or surface wind. As the incoming wind enters the rotor system, turbulence and vortexes are left behind and the flow of air becomes more horizontal. All of these changes improve the efficiency of the rotor system and improve aircraft performance. Improved rotor efficiency resulting from directional flight is called translational lift. Air flow patterns will start to change between 1-5 knots, The downwind vortex will begin to dissipate and induced flow down through the rear of the rotor disk is more horizontal than at a hover. Airflow pattern at a speed of 10-15 knots is much more horizontal than at a hover. The leading edge of the downwash pattern is being overrun and is well back under the helicopter nose. At about 16 to 24 knots (depending upon the size, blade area, and RPM of the rotor system) the rotor completely outruns the recirculation of old vortexes, and begins to work in relatively clean air: The air passing through the rotor system is nearly horizontal, depending on helicopter forward air speed. As the helicopter speed increases, translational lift becomes more effective and causes the nose to rise, or pitch up (sometimes called blowback). This tendency is caused by the combined effects of dissymmetry of lift and transverse flow. Pilots must correct for this tendency in order to maintain a constant rotor disk attitude that will move the helicopter through the speed range where blowback occurs. If the nose is permitted to pitch up while passing through this speed range, the aircraft may also tend to roll to the right. When the single main rotor helicopter transitions from hover to forward flight, the tail rotor becomes more aerodynamically efficient. Efficiency increases because the tail rotor works in progressively less turbulent air as speed increases. As tail rotor efficiency improves, more thrust is produced. This causes the aircraft nose to yaw left if the main rotor turns counterclockwise. During a takeoff where power is constant, the pilot must apply right pedal as speed increases to correct for the left yaw tendency. References: Copter .com, Army TM 55-1520-210-10 and Army TM 1-203

This seems to be such a huge problem that I thought I would look through my old Huey TM-55-1520-210-10 Operators Manual and try to have everyone get some perspective on the subject. Near the end of this topic are suggestions for avoiding Settling with Power (also know as Vortex Ring State-VRS) and procedure for getting out of this condition. All helicopter pilots should realize this is a real world problem not just a DCS "bug". " Recovery can be accomplished by lowering collective pitch and increasing forward speed. Both of these methods of recovery require altitude to be successful." Settling with Power Settling with Power is a condition of powered flight where the helicopter settles into its own downwash. The condition may also be referred to as the vortex ring state. Conditions conducive to settling with power are a vertical or nearly vertical descent of at least 300 feet per minute and low forward airspeed. The rotor system must also be using some of the available engine power (from 20 to 100 percent) with insufficient power available to retard the sink rate. These conditions occur during approaches with a tailwind or during formation approaches when some aircraft are flying in turbulence from other aircraft. Under the conditions described above, the helicopter may descend at a high rate which exceeds the normal downward induced flow rate of the inner blade sections. As a result, the airflow of the inner blade sections is upward relative to the disk. This produces a secondary vortex ring in addition to the normal tip vortex system. The secondary vortex ring is generated about the point on the blade where airflow changes from up to down. The result is an unsteady turbulent flow over a large area of the disk which causes loss of rotor efficiency even though power is still supplied from the engine. This figure shows the induced flow along the blade span during normal hovering flight: Downward velocity is highest at the blade tip where blade airspeed is highest. As blade airspeed decreases nearer the disk center, downward velocity is less. This figure shows the induced airflow velocity pattern along the blade span during a descent conducive to settling with power: The descent is so rapid that induced flow at the inner portion of the blades is upward rather than downward. The upflow caused by the descent has overcome the downflow produced by blade rotation. If the helicopter descends under these conditions, with insufficient power to slow or stop the descent, it will enter the vortex ring state: During the vortex ring state, roughness and loss of control is experienced because of the turbulent rotational flow on the blades and the unsteady shifting of the flow along the blade span. This figure shows the relationship of horizontal speed versus vertical speed for a typical helicopter in a descent. Straight lines emanating from the upper left corner are lines of constant descent angle. Superimposed on this grid are flow state regions for the typical helicopter. From this illustration, several conclusions regarding the vortex ring state can be drawn: The vortex ring state can be completely avoided by descending on flightpaths shallower than about 30 degrees (at any speed). For steeper approaches, vortex ring state can be avoided by using a speed either faster or slower than the area of severe turbulence and thrust variation. At very shallow angles of descent, the vortex ring wake is shed behind the helicopter. At steep angles, the vortex ring wake is below the helicopter at slow rates of descent and above the helicopter at high rates of descent. Power settling is an unstable condition. If allowed to continue, the sink rate will reach sufficient proportions for the flow to be entirely up through the rotor system. If continued, the rate of descent will reach extremely high rates. Recovery may be initiated during the early stages of power settling by putting on a large amount of excess power. During the early stages of power settling, the large amount of excess power may be sufficient to overcome the upflow near the center of the rotor. If the sink rate reaches a higher rate, power will not be available to break this upflow, and thus alter the vortex ring state of flow. Normal tendency is for pilots to recover from a descent by application of collective pitch and power. If insufficient power is available for recovery, this action may aggravate power settling resulting in more turbulence and a higher rate of descent. Recovery can be accomplished by lowering collective pitch and increasing forward speed. Both of these methods of recovery require altitude to be successful. References Copter.com and Army FM 55-1520-210-10

I have no doubt that this flight model will be all or more than the great UH-1H that they are about to release in full. I see the progressions in the evolution of helicopter flight that Belsimtek is taking and I think they’re spot on with their thinking. The UH-1 is the less complicated aircraft (system wise) to learn on. While there might be a learning curve to overcome with the UH-1, once you get the hang of the UH-1, both in flight characteristics and systems, then it will be easier for folk to learn a more complex system like to MI-8, UH-60 or AH-64. Belsimtek is easing the DCS community into advanced helicopters in a clear and understandable manner. Two thumbs up to the developers and management of Belsimtek. Because I have real world experience flying helicopters, anything less than accurate would be a travesty. I will continue to purchase you’re products because I know they will supply me with the realistic flight experiences that I crave. Again...thanks for your great work.

Hi all...after reading and listening to everyone, I would just like to say that it takes a lot of practice to control a Huey. I know it sounds like I toot my own horn when I say that I am a real world Huey driver with over 2000 hours but I only say that so that folks will know that I have some idea as to what a real Huey's flight characteristics are like. This DCS model is very accurate and it flies like the real thing. I learned to fly the UH-1H in the U.S. Army and I can tell you...no one can walk in off the street and fly this aircraft nor will anyone in this forum. It does take a lot of patience and practice to learn this aircraft but I feel that everyone can learn to fly this aircraft with accuracy. Some points that might help are: 1. Most fixed wing guys are not use to flying with your pedals. It take a lot of pedal control to keep the aircraft from turning around its rotor system so put a lot of “LEFT” pedal in when hovering. The amount of pedal will probably feel exaggerated to most fixed wing guys and girls but hovering is about the pedals. 2. When coming in for a normal landing, it should look like a brisk walk in your peripheral vision. When you start to decelerate the aircraft watch your airspeed indicator and when you get to around 30 knots, add collective…bring it to about 20 psi, this will help you “catch” the aircraft before it plunges into uncontrollability. You should never go below 30 knots with your collective bottomed out…you will almost never recover from this configuration. I watch a lot of the video’s that are posted and see the torque meter at “0” while screaming in for a landing, in a real aircraft you will almost never “0” your torque (this will cause instability…unless your autorotating). You should try to be at the above mentioned “Brisk walk” at around 100 feet AGL. It will seem very odd to some folks but this is the way a real helicopter is landed…slowly…a helicopter doesn’t have the same approach speed sight picture as a fixed wing and most try to land it like they are flying a fixed wing aircraft. If you’re a fixed wing guy your approach will seem exaggerated in how slow your approaching the ground. I want all to feel how great the UH-1H is so if I can help you understand the nueances of this great machine then I will always be there to advise. I hope this helped

Hi Spa...I had the same problem with my X-52. It turned out to be my control mapping. The default mapping had a slider on my throttle (Collective) set as the collective so when I raised my collective (the throttle unit) the default sent a signal to the slider to adjust, causing me to go out of control. The game was getting conflicting signals from my flight control system. It took someone from the forums to advise me to go into options in the game and re-map all of your inputs....hope that helps.

I too can land it anywhere. Practice, practice, practice so you can overcome the nuances and when you get it you will have a great sense of accomplishment. I have over 55 hours in the DCS Huey and in that time I have come love the way it fly's. It's been over ten years since I flew the UH_1H in real life and this model takes me back to those days. If you can "master" this model, I do believe you could get into a real Huey (with an instructor) and have a good sense of what it takes to control it and not kill yourself. You have to have the mind set that this is how a real helicopter flies. It's true that not everyone is cut out to fly helicopters because of the difficulties involved. Fixed wing aircraft want to fly and helicopters don't, so you have to master them and make them fly (think wild bronco) even in real life. In flight school, when we were first given the controls, the Instructor Pilots had a name for this experience...the candidate rodeo...because you had ten plus helicopters jumping around a stage field like a bunch of wild bronco, so don't feel like you should get it right off...it take patience and practice...just keep trying and you'll be flying in formation in no time.

Hi all...I flew the UH-1H, Blackhawk, TH-55 and Bell Jet Ranger in real life and find the flight characteristics of the DCS Huey to be very much like the real thing. You have to remember to put a lot of left pedal in when at a hover or else the torque will spin you around the rotor axis. I use the X-52 right now but also have (but don't have it hook-up yet) Thrust Master with Combat pedals. There is a distinct vibration when you reach the transition from hovering flight to forward flight at approximately 10 to 15 knots (Effective Transitional Lift). Without a long drawn out discussion it is basically the speed where you outrun the vortexes (turbulence created by your rotor system). This is where you will get the vibration in real helicopters. It’s more prominent in some helicopters than others. If you have a desire to get the feel of a real helicopter you have to accept this and learn to control it. I'm also fixed wing rated and find helicopter flight more exciting. A fixed wing aircraft inherently wants to fly where a helicopter does not. It takes a lot of effort to fly a helicopter. The toughest part of flying a helicopter is hovering and landing from a hover. Just remember hovering is in the pedals…think left pedal…left pedal…left pedal and once you find the correct amount of LEFT PEDAL you’ll have it.

I flew UH-1H Huey in Germany during the cold war and I have a great respect for the MI-8. I was stationed in Fulda Germany, guarding the Czechoslovakian border and was taught that when the "Fulda Gap" was penetrated by the Soviet Army (as was expected), I would see more MI-8's than I would be able to kill, thus insuring domination over my area of operation. My job was to hold the Soviet Army for as long as I could and if I survived then fall back to Frankfurt Germany and join any unit still active, So the MI-8 has a special place in my mind.

Awesome video's...I'd love to fly with you next time you get together.

Hi all...I too was having problems with "Teachers" but after the "Campaign fix" it got a little better. My first attempt after the fix, went well until the end where I got a "Mission Successful" message but didn't receive credit for the mission, requiring me to re-fly the entire mission (for a fifth time). My second attempt (after the fix) had Springfield 1 flying very slowly (maybe 20 knots) after we cleared the LZ and picked up our troops and I had to leave them behind. Once I got back to base I got a "mission successful" message, this time it gave me credit and advanced me to mission 12. I guess we have to remember we're helping find the bugs in the Beta version of the Huey. All future Huey drivers will appreciate our sacrifices. To all of the developers thanks for all of your hard work.

Thanks...just inserted into campaign...Going to try it now.

I also want to say hats off to the developers. I love not only the Huey but the great UN campaign that comes with it. I do have one concern...I have flown every mission up to and including the "Teacher" mission (I think mission 6 or 7). I have flown this mission three times and can never complete it. Each time I fly the mission is takes a least two hours to get to a point that I stop the mission because I can’t get the mission to progress. All other missions have been approximately one and a half hour long so it leads me to believe that they're is a problem (most likely with me). I get to the LZ and clear it of insurgents but that’s as far as the missions gets for me. The Blackhawk just continue to orbit and nothing further happens. It’s clear that I’m not doing something that triggers a return to base or further progress in the mission. Can you please give me a hint as to what I need to do to complete this great mission. I guess at the very least I’m gaining flight time…thanks in advance for your help.

I also want to say hats off to the developers. I love not only the Huey but the great UN campaign that comes with it. I do have one concern...I have flown every mission up to and including the "Teacher" mission (I think mission 6 or 7). I have flown this mission three times and can never complete it. Each time I fly the mission is takes a least two hours to get to a point that I stop the mission because I can’t get the mission to progress. All other missions have been approximately one and a half hour long so it leads me to believe that they're is a problem (most likely with me). I get to the LZ and clear it of insurgents but that’s as far as the missions gets for me. The Blackhawk just continue to orbit and nothing further happens. It’s clear that I’m not doing something that triggers a return to base or further progress in the mission. Can you please give me a hint as to what I need to do to complete this great mission. I guess at the very least I’m gaining flight time…thanks in advance for your help.