Dagger71

Please tell me the source of the SMEs who worked on the A10C and used the term Set SPI Generator. Like I mentioned I've had this module for almost 10 years and yet only heard of this term this week. It does not appears in a single cheat sheet or in any download file ever made for A10C . I do not believe you when you say this term is used anywhere else but in the lexicon of non native english speakers (but of course there are always exceptions). The aiforce manual, as stated before,CLEARLY describes the TMS Forward LONG action as creating/making a SPI through a SOI. It further explains making a SPI using 3 other commands. Just because you disagree with the US Airforce does not make you or anyone else who disagrees with them as right.

I sincerely hope that ED keeps the original wording of the English documentation. I actually did not ever hear the use of the term "SPI generator" until this post got started. It appears nowhere in any checklist, cheat sheet, kneeboard or key/HOTAS assignment that I have ever downloaded in the past 10 years. I would be a huge disservice to start changing manuals with terms that are not even used IRL because some non native English speakers are using this term. I know that being German you will continue to have the last word, but for something this fundamental that really should not even be considered.

Quigon I thought you knew better

I knew this is what was going to happen. Please contact the US Airforce and the US DoD and force them to change their manual and training which has been in use for the past 40 years. Until then the DCS Manual stays the way it is. Call it the WhirlyBird Dynamo Creator for all I care, just don't touch the manual. As for the rest of the previous posts please re-read my detailed explanation of what is a SPI and how it works. I am no longer interested in counter posts with people who are not interested in understanding. PS. The SPI is a single point in 3d space that gets updated. That is all Thank you.

IF I had to chose then it would be Fighter. The A10C fills the striker role very well and being the first module I bought, it will always remain one of my favs.

I think there is a major translation issue here. Unfortunately we won't be getting anywhere. But to end this, it is make SPI. The DoD Airforce manual is very specific on what is a SPI. The initial SPI is the steerpoint. From this point on you can create a new SPI at anytime using any of the SOI or other 3 methods. I've been through this many times already. I have answered all your questions in previous post. I hope correcting your TAD SPI statement, helps you to understand. Hooking a TAD symbol is NOT making a SPI. You hook the symbol then "Make SPI" . Would the concept make more sense to you when we call it "SPI Coordinate Generator"? NO. not at all. The Manual is right. it is make SPI. If you want to change the German manual, go for it. But for any English players here, the only term to use is Make or even Set SPI. Set SPI generator can be too confusing as it is too similar to Set Sensor Of Interest Command. Besides Set SPI Generator does not describe what it is actually doing. At this point I might put a post in Wish list to have the words Set SPI Generator removed from here for good!! We don't need any changes regarding the Make SPI command.

As many have said, these polls have been going on for years and although ED won't release exact numbers have stated that SP does have the higher player count. It's simple to see actually. Go on the Steam stats page and you will see the number of DCS players.. compare it to MP server numbers and you will see more SP players than the total of MP (sometimes by several hundreds ). It actually reached over 900 players in game earlier in the day! It actually peaked at almost 2000 in game in July this number represents a minority of DCS players as most play through the stand alone, so you can multiply it by 2-3 to get an approximate count at anytime. I'd love to know what this multiplier actually is, as maybe its even 5-10 times more. Either way SP wins by far. Now I play at least 90% MP with that time split 75/25 PvP/PvE. you sometimes need a break from the hordes of opfor CAP and just fly on your own for bit. Will this change once the dynamic campaign gets here... I am sure it will tilt even more in favor of SP.

I would vote if you add multirole fighter. It is the best DCS module in this role. In MP I rarely go up with just CAP loadout. I'll take at least 1-2 HARMS up on every flight to deal with SAMs. I am nowhere as good with the F18 at A2A as I was with the M2K but I am continuously getting better. If I were to speculate, I'd say I've dropped more A2G ordinance than A2A so far.

But you stated the SPI does NOT remain updated once you stop the laser. Either way it would take hundreds of tests with and without laser to actually come up with a valid conclusion. So far from what I see, the TGP accuracy is enough to drop any bomb on target.

I'm actually curious now, Yurgon, what is the description for TMS FWD LLONG in the German Manual? The French Manual is "Crée un SPI" Which translated means "Create a SPI" which is even more precise, but the military loves using shortcuts so they went with Make SPI.

To be honest I think this back and forth will continue for a long time. Apart from Kidd the others who do not understand the terms are all german, so to me it's a translation issue. But to the core of the OP.. Make SPI is in the official military document that ED copied word for word in many parts of the DCS manual. Set SPI generator is the wrong term and NOT at all what it describes. At least not in English. You are MAKING a Sensor POINT of Interest. A point in 3d Space.

i think there is way too much confusion on your part. Let me highlight. I am now thinking this is really an issue with translation.

it works great with A10c , just too frustrating with the F18. Even using trim hat, there is still lag with movements (MP), but it is not as bad.

I seriously doubt ED would give the hard data they have. But good luck on your project!

I gave up on the WH TDC for hornet. it works fine with a10c but with Hornet its way too lagy so i switched it for trim button and works much better. From the start i used TMS right for TDC depress because again the trackball push was not working 100%.

When TGP sets a SPI, it is a calculation based on several sensors and the data cartridge would contain a map pack for the area containing vector/raster, moving map and elevation and the TGP gimbal sensors provide slant angle etc. All this gives us a rough but fairly accurate (I'm guessing to within 10m) I would assume IRL when TGP is SPI, and uses the laser for more precise range finding, the SPI data would get updated to reflect this. In game we do have some issues with the laser rangefinder and I do not know for a fact if this (updating SPI more accurately actually happens.) I do almost always lase prior to firing a JDAM and it usually works. All early DCS A10C documentation/videos and training did state that using laser does indeed give a more precise SPI data point. It would really take someone from ED to come out and substantiate this claim.

"but cannot understand how the pilot would measure the distance to the target when TGP and CDU are damaged and thus cannot provide this information." You cannot release the bomb if the CDU is damaged. And IRL an A10 pilot would never drop a bomb without precise instrument feedback with friendlies/civilians in the area. They would RTB or let wingman take over. Losing HUD or CDU is a critical failure and I believe that prohibits the pilot from engaging without instruments. I have never heard of "manual bombing" without instruments, and not sure how this would be done during training.

Thne final note about SPI. This is going to change your minds about what is SPI/SOI When you have a SOI and press Make SPI.... what actually happens is the CDU takes a snapshot of what your sensor is pointing at. The sensor itself has nothing to do with generating a SPI, it is just an output device that the CDU uses to create the SPI. It will also use all onboard sensors and processors to make this into a precise 3D point reference. When the SOI is a slewable sensor, the CDU gets updated at a refresh rate (unknown what it is) of the position of the SOI sensor to keep the SPI as acurate as possible. Again the SOI does none of these calculations, it send the sensor output directly to CDU.

Nope wrong. A SPI is not needed to create a Markpoint, even if TGP is "SPI generator" , it is the sensor creating the Markpoint NOT the SPI (Even if both the SPI and marpoint will have the exact same coordinates). A SOI is required to create a markpoint.

The wording is fine. It's been this way since the first A10C rolled off the block. It's people's understanding of it. It might be a translation issue, I'm not sure. A SPI IS A SINGLE POINT. The fact that the TGP, MAV, HUD TDC, and IFCC pipper can slew this point is is an important fact to know but you need to understand what is actually going on. When Broadcasting your SPI, it only broadcast the point that was SPI right before you hit DMS Left Long. Others in this thread made the error of saying the SPI generator continuously generates the SPI. It is wrong way to think about it like that. With TAD as SOI and you do TMS Forward Long it drops a SPI on the TAD target (after hooking) and no longer updates, generates or changes the SPI even if it remains SOI for the rest of the flight UNTIL you Make another SPI. When you drop a SPI with TGP then switch to a another SOI, the TGP is no longer updating, generating or changing any sets of coordinates for the SPI. The SPI is locked as a single point that other systems can slew to even if the TGP has reached gimbal limit and the camera unwinds and is no longer pointing at the SPI!!!! The SPI will remain there until you designate another SPI. When the TGP remains the SOI after you make a SPI, it is continuously UPDATING the SPI point to another point as you slew. SPI points get replaced each time when 1)you are slewing the SPI with any of the SOIs mentioned above 2)you make a new SPI from another SOI 3)you make a SPI from any of the other 3 methods You can call the TGP a SPI generator and the EDS manual few does use this term a few times (somebody mistranslated?) strangely even though they copy/pasted most of their other info directly from the military manual, but what newcomers need to understand is that when they make a SPI by any of the 4 methods it IS a marked point in 3D space.

It's in the wording. This is from the 279159970-T-O-1A-10C-1-Flight-Manual-USAF-Series-a-10C-2012 page 544 Figure 1-161. A-10C Stick Controls Functional Definitions - Continued TMS Fwd Long Make SPI page 562-563 The SOI is defined as the sensor that is currently being controlled. With only one sensor allowed to be SOI at a time, multitasked controls (specifically, HOTAS) are uniquely allocated to that SOI-capable sensor. SOI-capable sensors are the HUD, Maverick, TGP, and TAD. SPI. The SPI is defined as the point in three-dimensional space that the system uses as a unique reference for other functions, such as weapons delivery, off-board transmission, and sensor slaving. A sensor can define the SPI only when it is the SOI, but once defined, the SPI is not necessarily confined to the SOI. For example, a change in SOI does not necessarily mean that the SPI changes. A SPI is always present unless there is an error condition such as a failed CDU. Incorporation of Datalink allows transmission of the SPI off-board. For a detailed description of SOI, and SPI, refer to TO 1A-10C-34-1-1. There is no such thing as SPI generator in the manual. It's a made up term that people use to explain how it works in DCS, "It is a common misunderstanding for beginners." Other examples The only way to get steer point (or mark points) to become SPI is TMS AFT LONG REGARDLESS OF SOI. The IFCC can NEVER be SOI but it can be a SPI (HUD SOI TMS AFT short) With TAD as SOI you Make a SPI with TMS FWD LONG. The TAD cursor does NOT remain SPI. A SPI CAN be defined by the SOI. The sensor does NOT become the SPI. Yes in with TGP/MAV/HUD the cue will remain SPI and can slew until you select a new SOI/or make a new SPI (other than TMS FWD LONG) . There are 4 ways (3+ hook an offboard SPI) to make a SPI and TMS FORWARD LONG will only "make a SPI" with TAD/HUD/MAV/TGP as SOI. So it would be wrong to define TMS Forward LONG - SPI generator. So a SPI is a point in 3 dimensional space that was made by a SOI or by any of the other 3 methods. It is a cue. DCS has it right. ***I removed the link to the document since it is a DOD/US Airforce controlled document *************************

The number one mistake A10C pilots (I do it all the time) is while using a SOI (Maverick, TGP, HUD TAD) but the SPI was set by another sensor and trying to "slave all" to the point you are looking at in your SOI (say tgp). Until you make a SPI with your current sensor, and override the previous SPI it will remain the previous SPI There will always be only one designated SOI and one SPI (that might have been set by another SOI). when you start your A10C in any mission -the SOI will be the HUD and the SPI will be the steerpoint -you can make another sensor as SOI - you can make another SPI -when you switch SOI, the SPI will remain, even if it was generated by previous SOI which is no longer active SOI is the sensor which designates/makes/sets a SPI SPI is the point on the ground or in the air that was designated by a sensor (SOI)

hmm ya. you do. TMS forward long "Set SPI" Coolie hat Left Long "Left MFD as SOI" Coolie hat right Long "Right MFCD as SOI" Coolie hat up short "HUD as SOI"

The manual is right. TMS Forward long sets the SPI . You use the Coolie hat to set SOI (SPI Generator). Ok I re-read what you wrote. Whether its Make SPI or Set SPI is the same thing, it's saying whatever the SOI is, and where the cue is , make it SPI. (Sensor point of interest) To call it " "Set SPI Generator" would be wrong because that is by definition SOI (sensor of interest) and that is done using the coolie hat.

You misunderstood what I said. in su25t due to it not being a regular module, doesn't react to ground crew the same way as other (no countdown timers for repair for one). all other modules are working as intended.