Hook47

Can we get a word from a LNS dev on this???! It's been a year and I would really like to have a functional pod

Before you question missile realism, keep in mind the ASO system isn't THAT old compared to the flares on the M2000, and there is no reason they couldn't jink a Magic II. Also noticed the Fishbed fired more and earlier CMs than Zues. And finally remember that could have been an R-3R fired from a quick radar lock with was absolutely designed for front aspect. In fact I might be surprised if it wasn't an R-3 If the missile was an Ahpid, keep in mind the R-60 was not junk. It was the most agile missile in its day, remains in service to this day, and is limited all aspect. It is capable of front offset shots in right condition. The biggest drawback to the R-60 was a small warhead, but that made them cheap and light, and they have kills on their combat record to prove effectiveness

Perhaps read my post more carefully instead of adding phrases in that I never said. Yes, the M2000 and MiG 21 could both be classified as multi role, regardless of the fact that there were originally intended for intercept. The minute the designers give a bird the ability to strap ground ordinance, it is now multi role by the most basic definition. Perhaps along with reading my post more carefully, you should read the first phrase describing the M2000 on the pre-sale page, my friend. That phrase being: The M2000C is a multi-role, French-designed, 4th generation fighter. I never said MODERN fighters, you said that, I was referring to multirole fast movers, of which both the MiG 21 and M2000 are. And regardless of if you think the MiG 21 and M2000 play in the same league, or if there are or are not reasons to compare them, because the fact is in a couple weeks they will be both playing in the same league, that league being DCS world, and I bet there will be a darn plenty of servers out there with both aircraft available. And I and other MiG drivers manage to kill above our generation regularly, so the fact that the M2000 has some underwhelming payload and countermeasure capabilities play to the older fighters advantage. I'm quite sure you wouldn't try to tell me that Gen 3 and Gen 4 fighters have never squared off in the real world? Never said they were "equal" only that the MiG 21 has a couple advantages, even for a 3rd Gen+ fighter that could make it a surprising match up for the M2000 in the merge. Especially when the Mirage is Winchester and the MiG still has teeth. AWESOME! Thanks so much for this, Zeus! Some don't seem to understand why there is a discussion for whatever reason, but clearly these two birds are going to be squaring off! Awesome TacView, I guess he got you with a close R-60 shot but you were still in the fight thanks to the firecracker warhead on that thing! Glad you are willing to fan the discussion on as I think its a fun topic, despite those who seems to get annoyed for some reason. Everyone in the debate take note- COUNTERMEASURES saved the first MiG on that Magic shot... Lol Like I said, countermeasures and payload matter a lot in the merge. Good to hear! I thought during some of the videos the energy loss seems to be pretty fast, which surprised me when I loaded up my Fishbed and noted it was keeping energy better when during comparable maneuvers than the videos demonstrating the M2000. Glad to hear you guys are going to match it up to the books a bit more. This is why discussions like this is a good thing!

Great charts. Interesting... Yes on paper it appears the Mirage has better sustained turn rate. That may help its lack of weapon and CM, but we will see. MiG vs. Mirage is something I'll be trying very quickly simply because I'm itching to have two full fidelity multirole fighters square off! This has never happened in DCS history

Back at home? I guess that implies you were under hospital care so I hope it wasn't serious and your back to 100% soon!

Agreed. As eager as we all are, myself included, LNS don't make crap and the reveal grows more epic by the day. Besides, we all know one of them is the Viggen...

I believe that to be a glitch as I was able to do full load-outs on prior builds.

Agreed, but I still hold to the MiG 21 managing energy better than the Mirage 2000. Look forward to finding out if I'm right in a couple weeks

I cannot get Pylons 1 or 2 to accept the X2 R-60 racks. Even when in game requesting rearm the crew will load it on to pylons 2, 3 and 4 but leave one empty.

The ASO pod was an extremely common upgrade to the MiG 21 Bis, and I seriously doubt any major operator of the MiG 21 today uses it WITHOUT it or a comparable mod. The "ppl" you are talking to are providing you with mis-information. I've known several people over the years who flew or maintained the Fishbed, the ASO was very common. The only operating Fishbed I have seen in real life had an ASO pod attached to it. Also there is no reason for a DCS MiG pilot to fly without the ASO pod unless they want to do a short takeoff with a SPRD, so comparing what both the aircraft had by default IRL doesn't really apply, since DCS is picking certain models of aircraft from a wide range of time and pitting them against eachother. The fact is unless our M2000 gets access to countermeasure upgrades it will stand at a major disadvantage countermeasure-wise.

The restrictiveness of the Fishbed's radar doesn't really have anything to do with Flares, because it is Radar. Flares DO matter, however, in the merge, and let's break down the two in the merge. MiG 21 *Up to 8 R-60M Heat Seeking Missiles *Comparable onboard Cannon *Probably better energy management (The MiG handles it's energy surprisingly well for Delta/Flying tail configuration *Good Roll rate, but inferior to M2000 *Comparable TTW ratio (.79 for MiG, .7x for M2000) *Ability to carry 64 (IIRC) flares in ASO pod -Inferior cockpit visibility -inferior gun sight -Inferior radar (we are comparing dog fighting ability primarily here) M2000 *Superior Gun site *Superior roll rate *Better forward and rear visibility -Major energy loss in turns -only 4 hardpoints -12 flares(!!!) That's just my assessment, but for a 1950s vs 1970s interceptor face off, you must admit the MiG has a surprising amount of advantages. I see myself being able to down some M2000C in my ol' fishbed, primarily because I will most of the time only have to worry about dodging two SARH missiles as opposed to many times that when fighting an F-15, and once I have defeated them, I know he only has a couple heaters left. When I go looking for trouble online in the MiG, I usually have 8 R-60Ms loaded up, and that gives me the ability to shoot 4 times as much as the M2000C. Of course I will be flying the M2000 plenty too! I just think writing off the MiG is premature

Either way it is good news! There is quite a list of RSBN navaids on the knee board!

Was flipping through the kneeboard when I stumbled onto a new page. RSBN Nevada!!! This was a pretty big deal to me because back when I submitted a Q/A question to Wags about if there would be RSBN/ARC/PRMG at NTTR he said it wasn't planned at that time. Looks like they changed their minds! Way to go, ED!

Just did an IFR ish crosswind landing gusting to 20. I'm extremely comfortable in the MiG but it still get's the palms sweaty. Was an awesome bird. And Congrats on walking away from 1000 landings! And not a shabby landing! A little slow but everything staying in one piece!

Agreed, as much as I love both aircraft, I think it's hats off to the Viggen in a DCS match up. Let's hope that can actually happen in the near future.

Aggressive? Oh good grief we are just debating. No one needs to get feelings hurt. And yes I couldn't help the comparison to the "Pipe dreamin" F-35 designers lol, since they also have a sort of "in theory" approach to never getting merged in air to air combat. My point is the MiG 21 is also a GCI vectored interceptor, but pound for pound has many more flares. And as for those who think the M2000 will hop on it's six no problem, lets remember the M2000 has even worse energy management traits (if I understand correctly) that the 21. I will fly both, but I think it's going to be a closer match up than people think.

What are you talking about? Flares in the real world are quite effective, and the DCS flares seem to be realistic and consistent with real world performance. What data do you base your criticism of DCS on? Please link as I would like to see. Furthermore did you just state that if you end up in a merge in a M2000 you are doing it wrong? That's ridiculous. Merges are sometimes unavoidable. . . You are thinking like a pipe dreamin F-35 pipe dreamer if you think you are seriously going to be able to skate around in BVR without ending up merged

I'm guessing at this point "It's [NOT] looking good for November" :/ Come on LNS, at least give us an idea what's going on!

Darn right, underestimating is a mistake I often exploit in the MiG 21. I think the Fishbed will be more of a challenge for the the Mirage than people think, particularly in that if the BVR shots miss (which the often do) the MiG may very likely have the upper hand in the merge, having more missiles and more flares

I agree, I too would really like to hear from the Devs on this. Even if this wasn't originally planned I think it would be crucial to increasingly the viability of the mirage against the other aircraft in DCS. Therefore I hope they will decide to add it. 18 flares just will not cut it, my MiG 21 can carry more that that! Heck, with my MiG being able to carry more missiles and flares, I should think the Mirage might be seriously threatened by it without at least this countermeasure upgrade!

OMG. This is incredible. This has to be ED or other 3rd party dev work, the level of detail and functionality is just way too high to be anything less. And it is shot in EDGE! ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN! Destination, the Straits of Hormuz

Sorry guys, I see now out dump file is empty. I think it was lost in the crash. I have a rig with 32GB of ram I'll be testing the mission on this week and I will post and crash results from that to this thread. Hopefully we can tackle this memory leak soon as it is the only thing holding us back from 1.5 multiplayer goodness. :thumbup:

Sorry, forgot to attach to first post. logs.zip

We are experiencing crashes after about an hour of multiplayer gameplay with about 9 clients. The crash happened more quickly when hosting with 8GB of ram, and much later when a machine with 16GB hosted. Because of this, we suspected it may be a memory leak. Please let me know if I can get you any more information. Logs are attached.