Hook47

It's not like Razbam pulled a bait and switch here, bud. We've known what we were getting from the beginning... And I'm totally stoked for it. I enjoy flying far less capable aircraft than the M2000C, but I've stated from the beginning it will be at an advantage against many other 4th gen fighters.

Awesome. What is the speed/energy management like in this later build?

Last we heard (A couple days ago) they are still shooting for mid-December

That Mirage is one nimble machine!

Thanks a ton for the reply! Understood on the Exocet, keeping my fingers crossed for that Armat!

I would also ask about the Exocet but I think it may be way out :) Although IIRC I thought I heard FSX M2000C made by M2M can mount both the Exocet and Armat? Of course this is DCS which is different, but maybe you guys have the models? I do remember seeing some renders from last year with the Exocet underslung on the M2000C for DCS, but I can't find them. Either way, the missions I could make for the M2000C with either the Armat or Exocet would be endless

To Zeus67: While we are on the topic of suggestions (and please no backlash from the community who may not like this! This is for the dev) I couldn't help but notice another thread discussing the Armat SEAD weapon, and it started a conversation with some of my squad mates about how they thought this weapon was originally planned. Without starting a debate about whether or not the weapon was fielded, has Razbam decided if they will be bringing this weapon to the M2000C modeled in the sim? (Fingers crossed and commencing F5 spam for response!)

Agreed, lets PLEASE not derail this thread, especially with the awesome info coming in. Thanks a ton for taking the time Zeus I am excited to hear the level of ground handling is so challenging. Sounds like it will be tricky to master! I've read the loaded landing speed of the M2000C can be up to 200KIAS, is this the case with a loaded M2000C in the sim?

THANKS! Awesome videos and I am so glad I opened this thread! I/we won't mess this one up, and thanks for the response to my question. You guys have awesome communication and I've already bought two of your M2000s lol The way that ILS works is incredible! Also heard some new cockpit audio which sounded great. I noticed some right rudder on the runway to keep her straight? Is that normal input? Also noticed the synthetic runway was a good bit above the real deal, does this represent minimum decision altitude?

Well I would have to agree, the F-15 flow correctly should be able to down the MiG 21 flown equally in a guns fight, but I think the MiG 21 has enough merits to hang in there a bit at least if flown right. It goes back to my never stating the MiG had any advantage in a guns only or 1 vs 1 fight, the MiG 21 requires the pilot to put it in the most advantageous position possible before tangling with a modern bird, which is what I strive to do regularly in the 104th. Against a SU or MiG 29, however, I find myself totally avoiding a merge unless I completely have the jump, and that is based largely of that nasty HMD that I enjoy so much when flying those planes. But I guess we are digressing a bit, as this thread was intended for the dreaded Mig 21 Vs Mirage 2000 discussion. Although I think the topic has been fully explored, and there isn't too much disagreement that the M2000C will be at an advantage. My initial impression (from watching testing footage) was that the MiG 21 would conserve energy better and perhaps have a better chance in that limited aspect, but CPTSmiley has said the EFM will be brought in better line with the published performance, and based on that, the M2000C will easily out turn the MiG 21 and even the F-15 and SU-27 (Altough the SU can make up for that with ASC off). I am most curious to see the energy loss comparison between the two, as it may be my only strategy in a Fishbed to stave off a hungry M2000C. There was one rather significant point I missed however, and that is the emergency after burner. My understanding is the MiG 21 enjoys a near 1.1 TWW ratio with the EAB engaged (this can be used for 3 minutes, with a 30 second cool down) which places it quite a bit above the .79 of the optimally loaded M2000C, which may be a strategy for the Fishbed to at least get away from the M2000C. EDIT: I've seen two different TWW ratios for the M2000C, one saying .79 and one .88. I've found 0.80 - Mig-21 Bis (T/W - 1.12 in emergency thrust mode) for the Mig 21Bis.

Thanks, we will keep this one on the straight and narrow.

So with 10 posts per page, and 20 pages, perhaps the M2000 has sold at least in the ball part of 200 units??? Not exactly a precise way of determining as much lol.

The other thread was closed, so here is a new discussion thread for those who want to continue. Seems the old thread was closed for off topic chat, so I suppose we ought to keep it strictly on the M2000C here. No comparisons or OT chat. I definitely want a discussion thread open so we can keep up the discourse with the devs. So I noticed the Devs stated they are still tracking for a mid month release. My next question to them would be since the EFM will be in Beta at the time of release, what aspects of the EFM do they feel will need further development? Will it be based on player input and glitches, or further R&D of the flight model (or both)

While the MiG 21 does enjoy the advantage of the SARH missile, it's range is comparable to that of the sidewinder and R-60, so the only major advantage I see is the first shot advantage on the head on pass. I am trying to find info on the ITT and STT of the Viggen to guess what things would look like after that. TWW looks comparable, with the MiG 21 enjoying an advantage in EAB

So having recently discovered this awesome plane has been leaked as coming to us, my first question would be what purpose can the A2A radar serve? Is it for ranging and SA only? Can Seeker heads be slaved to it? Also curious about the purpose for the A2G radar. Can this interact with any weapons or is it for SA purposes only?

Can't now as I am technically working, but I can coordinate via PM for the weekend

Sure, it would be good practice either way. I would bet you will still down me eventually. I am working all night the rest of the week but I have time this weekend if you want to fly some more. As fun as it was to run from 4 different Eagles I would enjoy a more pure experience! Just so long as you know I'm not trying to convince anyone the MiG 21 is the god of all planes (ahem.. TomcatMcdee...) Now, I'm off to the AJS 37 vs MiG 21 discussion... ROFL

No intention to imply you weren't honorable!!! I think you joined later, I was referring to the initial cluster where Tharos rescinded himself. Yes I agree, the Eagle can get on the MiG 21s six faster thanks to a pretty strong TWW and STT advantage (Unless MiG 21 uses emergency AB, which I did not have bound, and couldn't afford to look for the switch!) but my point was I felt confident in my ability to deny the shot in defense of myself. Perhaps I didn't recall the right moment. Towards the end I was getting tired and sloppy so I wouldn't doubt an outright kill either before or after I got sloppy and started trying too hard to get kills. Like I said, the F-15 enjoys a total advantage, but the MiG 21 is not a slouch. I don't know why we fought on top of a Volcano lol. I guess it is where I dropped the units in a hurry!

Haven't been able to reply to this for a few days, so I wanted to catch up and give the MiG 21 pilots perspective. Fist of all, thanks to everyone who joined! As I told GGTharos hopefully no one was planning on taking it personally. I was bummed he was the only one who joined TS for whatever reason. About the actual fight- I should start by saying at no time have I claimed the MiG 21 had anything but a disadvantage in a guns only fight with the F-15 (and of course the Mirage) so I don't see how a "grudge" match proved anything. I did it for fun, and fun it was. That being said, and having not actually tried to gun dual F-15s before, I was shocked at how well the MiG 21 did. At one point I had four F-15s all trying to kill me and unable to get a firing position, even with the fancy gun site. At all times I was out numbered yet my faithful little MiG 21 was able to consistently deny the enemy the shot, as Tharos remarked in TS several times, the MiG 21 was "showin them up" for a good margin of the fight. This changed when I shifted my strategy from staying purely defensive to actually trying to get kills. I thus became an easier target and was pounced by Hummingbird or one of the others quite quickly. In fact on the several occasions I was lining up the F-15 for guns shots, I would find myself in the sights of another, and of course with the MiG 21s rudimentary gun sight I wouldn't get a kill before being killed. I scored 4 manuvering kills on pursuing F-15s. True, it isn't a gun kill, but it was still a kill none the less. So things were not as blatantly one sided as they may have been expected to be. Hummingbird, unfortetely I never got a chance to focus on a 1 vs 1 with you because I was either defensive against someone else or trying to get a kill, as Tharos mentioned. Even though I did pass head on with you a couple times in an effort to put you in the worst possible position, because I would often get "sniped" by you if I was already in a fight with someone else. None the less good flying, I had fun duking it out with you guys. I do remember the instance where I was turning towards the hill, but as Tharos may remember in that case I had aileron damage and was in trouble. I also felt my Mig 21s ability to turn with the F-15 bleed away each time I re-spawned against F-15s with far less fuel. All in all I have to admit that all things being equal, and to my actual surprise, I feel totally confident I could avoid being killed by an F-15 in a 1 vs 1 setting in the MiG 21, simply based on my ability to turn with and sometimes into the F-15. I don't think I would ever get into a kill position with guns 1 vs 1 unless the other pilot made an error, but I feel very confident I could stay alive for awhile. Props to Tharos BTW for having the gentleman's courtesy to go into an observer role once he saw me dealing with 3 other F-15s, LOL. I had my hands full! Again, it was a lot of fun guys, and like I said from the start- The MiG 21 is an old bird, but don't write it totally off! It was a hell of a plane for it's time and can turn and burn better than almost any other 3 gen + plane. Also sorry for the sudden shutdown guys, I minimized to check my RAM and the game crashed lol. Go Figure! I had to work so I had no time to bring it back. Thanks again though, I certainly had fun, and the Eagle is a beast of a plane to fight. Dude let's just agree to not agree or interact or whatever. I can't figure where you are getting this stuff about me "Not listening to reason" or trolling or whatever, show me a post where I said the MiG 21 was better than the Mirage?! I didn't, I only said it may have a better shot against it than against the other 4th gen fighters on the DCS world scene. Now that the AJS 37 is coming, that has changed! Let's just let it go for goodness sake. It was never trolling, just me saying something less than the MiG would get it butt utterly kicked, and that didn't go over well. I even tried to change the topic many many times only for you, jojo, or that other guy to bring it back up. Like I said, let's let it go.

And why would you suspect that? You're welcome to join in, I never said the MiG 21 has anything but a disadvantage with guns only thanks to radar sights, but I'm a laid back dude and don't get my feelings hurt as easily as some it seems. You are welcome to hop in if you like, that goes for F-15 and MiG 21 drivers. Like I said, I enjoy a challenge either way.

Hey, you know what? I can make 1800, so I'll bite... It doesn't prove a thing about my original discussion which has now been deleted, but I enjoy a challenge! I'll toss up a server at 18:00 named "F-15 Vs MiG 21 Guns" if you are willing to fly. I could care less about concessions or gloating, I enjoy a challenge. We can use a channel on the 104th teamspeak As for those wanting tracks for gloating purposes or whatever reason, as said above, I invite you to join in yourself! I'll put a few 15s and MiGs in. Note that I don't have too long before I have some other obligations tonight, but we can get a few flights in.

Awesome! It will certainly be fun to try. An example of when it could be interested to try would be in a scenario I was in on the 104th Last night, when I got into a turning fight with another Flanker. I disabled the ASC just long enough to get my gunsight lined up for a kill. It would be fun to try something similar in the M2000 but I feel the possibility of entering a snap roll or a massive energy loss would be high (The SU-27 losses energy insanely fast when overriding ASC in a hard turn) but thanks a lot for the answer, I am glad we get the option to turn it off to try at least. I wonder if there is an emergency procedure that would call for the pilot to override the FBW, and if flying without FBW is something french Aviators do from time to time. I have experience as a CH-47 Crew Chief in the US Army, and our pilots would practice with AFCS off to get a feel for handling the bird should the system fail or need override (as you can imagine, the Chinook gets very interesting without AFCS on). Can the FBW be taken out do to battle damage? I would imagine such a system is highly redundant. Also glad to hear you guys are probably shooting for 2.0, hopefully the Black Sea port won't take too long for those who don't have NTTR (I do of course) Any new screen shot or video goodness devs? The natives are gettin' restless!

I see some of the discussion has been deleted... :huh: That is unfortunate. The above makes sense though, I was not sure if enough had been changed to cause a 1.5 module to no longer work in 2.0. Having it for both would certainly be the best option, as I certainly want to fly at NTTR. One thing I have been wondering about is if you can override FBW, and if that would equal total suicide in the delta wing M200C. From time to time in dogfights in the SU-27 I take advantage of the "ASC Direct control" feature to allow me to get my nose lined up for an extreme gun shot, or to lag a bandit who is turning inside of me prior to the ASC override. Can you override the FBW in the DCS version and if so would it immediately depart controlled flight?

I think that depends on Razbams release decisions. If released on open alpha it would probably have to be after the Black Sea map was ported.

Hopefully announced this year, I think a release for this year is really pushing it though. By mystery planes did you mean the LNS: F4U and LNS: Viggen?