Hook47

Until you get the boot :noexpression: Don't do this... I don't have time in a nasty merge to bring up the chat box and type "BUDDY BUDDY"

This stemmed from another thread I was talking in, but it is something I was wondering. Was there any particular reasoning behind the decision to give the M-2000C only two Magics and 530Ds? I know the 2000 was originally designed as an interceptor which wouldn't have needed a large load out, but with the M-2000C being a later version and having such an advanced A2A radar, I wonder why the decision to give it a more comparable load out to it's contemporaries was not made? Was the thinking at the time that you just wouldn't need that many missiles? It seems odd the 2000C can carry so many bombs yet so few A2A missiles. I have googled around but not found much, so I wanted to here the Devs or other educated opinions if anyone knew something regarding the decisions.

LOL. I like how "Luck" was cited as one of the tricks. Good for Singleplayer, but honestly the best tactic in multiplayer for me so far is to fly the Mirage low and dirty. Good videos though, I'll give it a try.

The title of the thread isn't "Letting RAZBAM finish the M-2000C, it is "Upgrade Possibilities..." pertaining to new variants or additions to what we have.... They aren't mutually exclusive... Razbam can both finish the M-2000C and create future variants, or perhaps some new possibilities for the M-2000C. Creating a variant, btw, especially one close to the M-2000C (NOT the 2000-5) is a smaller venture than a new aircraft. Please quote my post where I acted like I was speaking for everyone? As stated many times and as acknowledged by Zeus, a ARMAT is both wanted by a PORTION of the community and possible by Zeus. Additional Magic IIs is a realistic stray from reality. Saying that I at any time tried to speak for everyone is a straw man. Who is making DEMANDS of a developer? This is discussion and request, you are overstating things. I would love to see both added variants of the M-2000 down the road, and maybe a couple minor additions to the C, such as the Armat and duel Magic pylons. I love the Mirage but 2 magics feel like taking a knife to a gun fight in an otherwise solid 4th gen aircraft. Like I said, in the M-2000C was doing the fighter role in reality like it is in DCS vs other planes, you can darn well bet Armée de l'air or other users would have been slapping a couple more Magic IIs on board. Perhaps it was done and I don't know about it, I haven't looked into it much.

Not sure I have ever heard of many RL encounters where modern fighters just "fly right up and shoot them in the face a rmin" But anyway.... He didn't have ECM on when I've hit with an R3R, and there was a lot of "in theory" "Possibly" "Probably" and "AFAIK" up there for ED to go making it a solid rule that my R3s are totally useless, my friend :) For this, I am glad ED won't make missiles changes unless hard data is presented. A good policy since probably about 90 percent of what people think missiles would and wouldn't do on this forum is complete guesstimation, as almost none of it has ever happened. ECM I'm sure is a touchy and classified subject, so it is reasonable that the ECM model is a little simple, although I think we will see upgrades down the road. Yes the Radar slew will help the M-2000C, but only twice... Because after that it is out of missiles! I enjoyed relighting the discussion, and of course the M-2000 is a much better interceptor and a better dog fighter than the MiG 21 (but with a couple major limitations), but the 21 has just enough spunk left in it to give it a decent shot in the right hands, as I am finding on the wonderful Mig vs Mirage server. Let's ALSO keep in mind the Mirage has some unfair advantages too, along with its incomplete features, that will hopefully soon be patched. For instance, a M-2000 which had just taken off and was heavier than me (I had 50 percent fuel and 2 missiles) after a brief tangle, was able to turn and out climb me EASILY like a rocket ship, even though I activated Emergency After Burner. This out not to be, as the MiG 21, particularly a light one vs a full M-2000, should easily be able to climb with or outclimb a M-2000 in EAB, due to the significant TWW advantage in this mode. It's a two way street, and the M-2000C is the better bird, but the MiG, as predicted, can play on its disadvantages. One thing that is interesting, although I did get a little flamed for it prior to release, is that I am finding many of my predictions of MiG 21 vs Mirage combat are coming true. Primarily, the additional ordinance helps a lot as well as the higher amount of CM. I do think even the current M-2000 is able to turn better than the MiG 21, but not so much that I find myself helpless. Finally, I think that the M-2000C (With it's current limitations, both temporary and permanent) and MiG 21 are probably the best rivals for one another in the sim right now, as I find myself feeling like I am in a fancier MiG 21 when I confront the air superiority in the Mirage. Better performance on the 530D will help, but only just slightly. I guess it goes back to what I said about how beating an F-15C in a MiG, or getting beat, proves absolutely nothing about the MiG vs the M2000, because the F-15C seems to be a significantly more capable aircraft than the M2000C I guess the biggest question for me is why the heck did the French make such a BA fighter, and then only hang 4 missiles on it???!!! It can hold a dozen bombs for god's sake! :D If this thing had more teeth, I'd be in much more trouble in the MiG! I think I will start a thread regarding that, I am very curious to hear the possible reasons.

Mods have to be updated and break things... ED, BST, LNS all have and will make reasonable and believable departures from time to time for various reasons. I don't want a patched together modded aircraft capability that A. Probably will break B. Won't be allowed online, which is were I would actually want to use it C. Like many mods, cause unforeseen issues and D. Won't be intergrated in a realistic and believable way, like the KH-66 Grom was. Additional magics, even the ARMAT are not even unrealistic, much less unreasonable additions. Although the BEST option would be to get a new variant alongside the C. Every single aircraft has something about it the purists could gripe about, but the purists are by far a minority. This can still be a great realistic sim without holding to every single little detail of how it was, but rather how it could have been too.

Please... I spent 6 years working with armament on an advanced combat aircraft and I am quite sure the real steel M-2000C could have been outfitted in such a way as to carrying additional Magic IIs, just like LNS allowed the MiG 21 to have the Grom even though it never did, but easily could have. Freaking out because it will somehow trigger a slippery slope of unrealism is a fallacy and will hold the aircraft back. Fact- In its current state it struggles to keep up with any of the FC3 aircraft besides the ground attack. This sim is very much about multiplayer, and if gameplay was never regarded as important alongside realism the FC 3 aircraft wouldn't exist. Those like you who are purists or whatever can choose not to use the "nonsense" modifications, but if you fly on adversarial I bet that wouldn't last long :lol: As far as ARMAT goes, there is a portion of the M-2000 owners who would like it, and those who don't aren't required to use it! The A-10 can carry more Heaters than the M2C right now...

+ to all this. I love the M2000C, but I would kill for some newer variants to go along with this, and I would TOTALLY KILL for the ability to hold more weapons!!! Come on, Razbam, some believable departures from the real bird, like LNS did with the MiG 21 would be outstanding. IE twin heater pylons, maybe center mounted 530D or two, and for the love of all that is good the ARMAT!!!!!!!! Let's give this bird some real teeth. It it was squaring off with the stuff it fights in DCS in real life you can bet the French or whoever would be doing some field mods.

Funny, pre release it had no chance ;) Also Hummingbird STR wouldn't have helped him. He lost all his energy turning with me, and I had more missiles left than he did. I won three more engagements after this and my final one for the day was a draw, we got eachother

Well the tests results are in- Here is how my first M-2000C run in went :) The flaming wreckage in the background was my opponent. He ran out of Magic IIs. I still had two R-60s :) Like I said, warfare is dynamic, never write off the ol Mig 21 http://s15.postimg.org/fln6rgjl7/Mig_Vs_Mirage.jpg' alt='Mig_Vs_Mirage.jpg'> free pic[/img] Gotta love the MiG 21 Vs Mirage Server!!!!

So what type of missions do you guys have planned for this aircraft from a mission designer standpoint? I guess we are getting the swedish version of the Maverick so it could do some tank or fixed target killing... What else?

Yea I think we will be getting new effects for various things down the road. I can't really speak to bullet impacts on planes as I have never see it, I have seen rounds, up to 30mm hit objects on the ground and based on that the puff of smoke/dust may not be too far off, but maybe planes moving at speed is different. Like I said though, I think the flare effect was a great idea. I think it also applies to colored signal flares like the ones in the MI 8, L-39 and 109, so that will actually make them useful now.

I still think even after chart corrections the advantage will be marginal at best, and getting to the merge where any of it matters, and exploiting any of it without killing all energy is a whole new set of challenges. as to the second point, perhaps, but not if the MiG 29 is also jamming, and remember the MiG 29 also gets a Fox 3. And if you do force him defensive, you better make the second missile count because you just burned 50 percent of your BVR on forcing him defensive. And if you are lucky enough to make it to the merge, the 29 holds several important advantages: More ordinance, more thrust, better survivability and the all so important HMD/High off boresight that gets me lots of kills. Also I don't see MiG 29As hardly ever on PVP, I think most people fly the S.

Frankly, I think we can. Even a massive boost to the effectiveness of the 530D wouldn't change my experience, which has been heavily influenced by the load out limitations of this bird. You are simply in trouble with you got two, and your opponent has 4 or more! The systems left over (IFF, INU, Radar Seeker slaving, etc.) are not enough to significantly change the combat performance of this aircraft, and if anything, the performance capabilities of the engine and flight model are going to be reduced! There are some issues with the TWW ratio, particularly at higher altitudes. I am pretty sure future adjustments will bring it back to it's published range, where it cannot compete in the vertical with any other fighter currently in the sim (Even including the MiG 21 in EAB) I love the plane, but any illusion of if going toe to toe with even the Fulcrum have been laid to rest in my mind. It lies between the MiG 21 and MiG 29 in the fighter food chain, IMO, all things being equal. That being said, it is a pilot's airplane, extremely enjoyable to use, and I love a underdog challenge!

Just wanted to hear thoughts on the new flare effects in 1.5 and 2.0. As an U.S. Army Helicopter crew guy I have always thought CM and signal flares should be brighter, as even in bright Iraq or Afghanistan I observed that flares could be seen for quite a ways away. I don't know any hard distance data, but my general feeling was that the DCS flares prior to this simply weren't noticeable enough. Another interesting dynamic is that in multiplayer the new effects now give one reason to think hard before popping flares needlessly, as it is now an announcement of your position to everyone nearby! :doh: Thoughts?

While I had envisioned taking on opponents at higher altitudes like Zeus described, I am quickly discovering that I tend to have the most success flying the M-2000C like a more advanced MiG 21 down in the weeds. I cannot understate the disadvantage the M-2000C has in both load out and energy management against its air superiority counterparts. Furthermore it's BVR 530D appears to be inferior to the Aim 120C, R-27ER and the R-77. The M-2000 will get it's butt handed to it if it confronts a F-15, SU-27, or even MiG 29 in their elements. I would recommend keeping low, fast, and wait for very good opportunities to take one of those 4 missile shots. They go quick, and your enemy (even including the MiG 21) is likely to have twice as many. As I predicted, due to both energy management and the way the M-2000C handles FBW AoA and G limitations, the M-2000Cs published ITR and STR are something of a hallow advantage, since the aircraft does indeed loose energy quickly, and does not hold a significant enough advantage over it's competitors to make victory in the merge easy. This is just my experience so far, but after clocking many hours in the Mirage, and a few against it, I would recommend keeping low and flying like a opportunist. I sure love this plane, and I welcome the challenge it brings to fly online (it is certainly easier to get victories with than the MiG 21, which I have had success with) but I have to admit I would LOVE the option for dual Magic II pylons or even another 530D or two, assuming this could have been done in real life, I do not think it would at all be an unreasonable departure from reality, just like the addition of the ARMAT would bring awesome new missions. I am sure some people may flip out at the mere suggestion...

That's nice. So what is the word, Smiley? Is this feature currently broken?

If it doesn't have a military application, I am not interested in having it in DCS to be honest, unless the dev making it was unable to make a military aircraft. Basically the only time I would take a Civil aircraft in DCS is if the alternative was no aircraft at all...

I love the Mirage, and I hate to say it, but until issues like this are resolved it probably should be removed from MP servers. Between the game breaking performance errors in certain regimes, and the total lack of IFF, the Mirage is causing some issues online. I hope the IFF and performance problems will be quickly resolved, since this is important for balanced and far MP combat.

I LOVE the 104th, but FWIW I think I'd prefer the F-15C Ground attack mod to not be on the server, as my understanding is the F-15C is not/can not be used in such a role. Just my opinion, I'll be up in a mirage tonight. Hope you guys had a great Christmas

Ok ok, the M2000 is out, so you guys won't be stealing anyone's thunder anymore. You can go ahead and release now :)

+2!!!

Almost 100% sure you are flying in "CHARGES" mode, OP.

Any ETA on the fix Is it on EDs end or Razbams?

Actually those videos just made me realize how great the in game FM really is. The roll behavior in game seems extremely similar.