IIIJG52_Otto_

Some automotive piston engine from racing car equipped some WWII replicas, as this Thunder Mustang, with original P-51 performances. There are not many differences between big inline piston engines from automotive, to aviation at present day A shame .. They don't do it with a Bf-109 :smilewink:

This is not piston rod failure, or overheating ...this is an aircraft overspeed case, according with video description. """the turbulence and G's ere too much for the engine and the oil filter housing broke off, dumping the oil, over-speeding the propeller""". Today automotive engine are better in power/weight ratio and performances than any WWII engines. This is a today automotive street car engine, The Volkswagen Group W16 engine as configured for the Bugatti Veyron EB16.4 is a 16 cylinder quad-turbocharged engine with four valves per cylinder. The engine is 71 centimetres (28 in) long, and weighs approximately 400 kilograms (882 lb). Maximum power output is 736 kilowatts (1,001 PS; 987 bhp) at 6,000 revolutions per minute (rpm), with a maximum torque of 1,250 newton metres (922 lbf·ft)

Yo-Yo, I´m not agree, ..piston rods failures are very rare if the pilot have the engine parameters in view. Except damage by shooting in combat of course. SiThSpAwN, ..the engines of today street cars, are more advanced than aircraft engines WWII. The big V-engines, with 6 or more cylinders, can enduring hours, with 1 or 2 cylinder degraded, running at low power. (WWII engines included)

I have not seen engine failures in aircraft piston engine (although in a jet engine), but i had some serious engine breakdowns, in any of the 5 cars I´ve owned in the last 30 years. From my own experience, a piston engine, not usually stop suddenly, without notice, when it has serious problem. I suffered a breaking of the connecting rod bearing in my old car (15 years ago), and the engine began to jiggle and make a loud noise of hammering. I shut off the ignition key and the engine was not destroyed. The connecting rod bearing can be replaced later, and the engine came back to run properly. Before stopping due to mechanical fault of alternative train (crankshaft, connecting rod, piston), a piston engine, always makes strange noises, vibration or hammering. In addition, the oil pressure decreases,and water temperature, or cylinder head temperature values, rise to red. In the video shred by Llucmk, the sound changes at the minute 0:06, the engine begins to shake at the minute 0:25 , and exploded at minute 0:31. The explosion is not immediately, but probably this can be an induced failure on a test engine.

Thank you Yo-Yo .. I think that it ´s very necessary. The actual way that Bf-109 engine windmillind, and engine stop behavior, (it´s like the crankshaft gripping all the times), with no vibrations, no misfiring, or premonitory noise, when engine is overheating, etc.. I think it´s not realistic.

YoYo,.. which have you matching the Bf-109K4 windmilling behavior?? ... :unsure:

Bf-109 have not emergency fuel dumping pump, (it has the fuel dumping by gravity) and if the info given by Kodoss is true, the P/N matches, except for the letter after The dash. Probably, the electric fuel pump P/N: 8-4544-x from DBU. has multiple applications and variations, depending of the P/N letter after the dash. But this is my assumption, because i work in aviation. and is a common practice of spare part vendors, and manufacturers.

Good job Kodoss !!:thumbup: Thank you very much, I've been looking for information for weeks about this, without success. This device 8-4544-K from DBU is the key to explaining why the Bf-109 can fly inverted, almost a minute. Excuse me, but I'm claiming from the beginning that the Bf-109 can fly inverted at least 34 seconds before the engine stops.

No, I think no, .. due to the reason explained previously.

Jcomm, ..a lot of thank for your help :thumbup:

See this video minute 0:21 The Bf-109K4 Should be able to do this? Stop the engine, feathering the propeller, stop the propeller spin and then, re-start engine in windmilling changing the propeller pitch.?? At the moment, I can´t do it, In DCS:Bf-109K4 the airscrew no go back to spinning in windmilling, after complete stop, when changing the propeller pitch to medium pitch, or any pitch. ..even diving at 400-600 km/h. But it's possible in-flight re-starting, cranking the engine with the command "signal starter crew" (in the air :music_whistling:) Are both things correct? ..or we have a bug in the windmilling behavior? ...And if both are correct, would imply that the DB605 should have electric-inertia starter motor for in-flight restarting.. in according with the book of Jean-Claude MERMET "Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-1 to K-4 Engines & Fittings"-1999 in page 21 say:

Are you sure? .. How many take-offs have you done with the DCS:Bf-109K4 with propeller in manual pitch control? .. you feel it realistic when the engine grip? and the windmilling effect it´s well for you too?

I agree , ... That´s one of my doubts, that I would want clearing in this thread.

I do not know exactly at the moment .. but I've the doubt. :music_whistling: At the moment, I intend to share the Bf-109 prop. pitch system video only, for everybody can see the difference. Do you think that the behavior of Bf-109K4 propeller in windmilling, should be exactly the same as a P-51?? :huh:

The electric propeller pitch control system in the Bf-109, is very different from the P-51, with which it is matched in DCS, according to somebody comments .

Ok, I forgot to add in my calculations, the 10 second inverted flight. At the moment, the time of inverted flight or negative G´s in the Bf-109K4 of DCS remains of 4-8 seconds after thats the engine lost power and start windmilling. Today as you've read in the report, the airplane in the second 9, 10,11, 12 and 33 after starting the inverted flight, .. it was flying at normal power. In the second 34 (24 after complete the inverted flight) the engine start misfiring. It's 34 seconds, it's not 4 or 8 seconds . Crumpp, You can read the page 10 y 11 too, of the Danish. according to the comments of several pilots who I have consulted, the engine would not have stopped if the electric pump had been in operation. The electric fuel pump P2 of Bf-109 is a backup system to ensure the flow of fuel to the injection fuel pump. Unlike the mechanical fuel pump, the electric pump pressurizes the fuel lines rather quickly.

NO my friend, I've read the report correctly .. the engine NO stop until 24 seconds, .. you can add 10 seconds more of inverted flight if you want.

My dear colleague, .. I think I'm not mistaken, but if you're sure that the Bf-109 can fly inverted 8 seconds only, at any engine rpm .. you'll have to give me a reason for it. I think my calculation is a "reasonable approximation". but, You can also make a rough estimate, of how many seconds of flight you get .. At the moment the only specific data that we have, is what documented in the report, of the Danish Accident Investigation Board: and they say: " The engine fuel consumption at that time with 2300 rpm was approximately 2.9 liters/min. After approximately 10 seconds of inverted flight the fuel amount in the fuel supply system was decreased by approximately 0.5 liters and the remaining fuel amount in the fuel supply system was approximately 1.4 liter. Approximately 24 seconds after the inverted flight was completed, the engine started to misfire. In this period of time, the engine consumed approximately 1.2 liter of the above mentioned 1.4 liter of fuel. "" It's a pleasure discuss this topics with a colleague,:beer:

Siegfried, I think you haven't read my quote or the book which i'm refering. I m sharing with all that Jean-Claude Mermet said in his book.. and this is the information that I have about the starting system in DB605 engines, installed in the Bf-109 G to K series. Even I do not have the wiring diagram of the Bf-109K4, ..but if I find more information I'll show it here. In this video you can see a Bf-109G starting engine with electric-inertia starter motor, feeded by a GPU.

But,.. we all agree that the horn sounds with the engine idling? yes or not? :(

that's right SiThSpAwN The airplane has different micro switches to undercarriage locked up and locked down, and this switch on the red and green lights of the undercarriage indication, ..and the horn too. Someone was posted years ago the Bf-109E wiring diagram for this issue in the IL2- Clod. But now I can not find it

I've read in several Bf-109 manuals years ago, that the horn sounds only to warn the pilots that the undercarriage is retracted, when the aircraft is trying to land. Otherwise, if the horn sounds when undercarriage is traveling, it has no sense.

FoxRomeo and Golani79 thanks for your help .. and excuse me, my German is very basic.

Well .. Then wrong modeling too, .. because the horn should sound less than the engine noise when revolutionized, and now it does not. Falke, as you say the engine has to sound higher than the horn, in normal running. Now it is the other way.

In according with the Bf-109G2 manual, flaps horn sounded only when the engine is at idle rpm. Edited: page 20 in PDF file (page number -13- , point 8. ) """ 8. Signalhorn ertönt, wenn das Fahrwerk nicht mehr eingerastet ist und gleichzeitig die Landeklappen angestellt sind. Das Horn ist nur bei Leerlauf gut zu hören.""" (thanks to golani79 for his help) The flaps horn was to warn of an abnormal landing configuration. This device sounded ONLY with the flaps deployed, engine idling, and undercarriage retracted.