IIIJG52_Otto_

The leading edge slats was invented by Gustav Victor Lachmann in 1918. Gustav Victor Lachmann was a German aeronautical engineer who spent most of his professional life working for Handley Page. http://aircraftdesigners.blogspot.com/2011/09/gustav-victor-lachmann-1896-1966.html There are a lot of evidences that the Soviets added the Slats to La-5, and LAGG-3 series 35, after production started, to match the performances with some captured Bf-109´s

I think that is not the real behaviour of P-51 in power stall Read "power spin"in this page of the original "P-51D Pilot trining Manual" http://issuu.com/tiamat2013/docs/p-51_poh/79?e=0:book: That is the same configuration of TF-51 in DCS. :music_whistling:

Yes, it's true, I've only fought against the P-51D, .. but have flown the TF-51 several hours in DCS, testing, and mock dogfights. As I said in the previous post the P-51D must maneuvering worse than Bf-109 at low speed. (As American and German "grandpa tales" says):music_whistling: Due to it was very fast airplane not suitable for tight dogfight. The German engineer Edgar Schmued who designed the P-51 planning it as a pure BnZ fighter. And I'm sure the TF-51D is optimistic and behavior is UNDERmodelled, As Skip Holm test pilot says .. Manowar ..is this a Grandpa tale too? :D but my friend Manowar is a E.D. fanboy, and he says "all is perfect" .. from the beta version was released, and nothing needs improvement. And reading the Bugs report thread, everybody can see that Manowar thinks is not true.

Alright guys! ..but not forget that all warbirds, had controls stiffening, at different speeds not only in the Bf-109. I expect that ED will modeled de P-51 controls stiffening, (Stick forces about 20Lb per G ) and the violent aileron snatch effect, that this plane have when stalling and entering on spin as IRL.. :joystick: I think that current DCS P-51 Flight Model is very optimistic, compared with Bf-109K4. ...If you have doubts read pages 6 and 7 of the attached file. :music_whistling: Flight test comparison_P-47_P-51_Corsair_Hellcat.pdf

I think this book explains clearly what was the behavior of automatic slotted slats, and how they were used. "When Bf-109 was flown, advertently or inadvertently, too slow, the slots would shoot out forward of the wing ... Many fresh young pilots thought that they are pulling very tight turns even when slots were closed against the wing. For more experienced pilots, real maneuvering only started when the slots were out. For this reason, it is possible to find pilots from 1940 who will tell you that the spitfire turned better than Bf-109... I myself had many dogfights with Spitfires and could always out-turn them." Oberleuteutnant Erwin LeyKauf (German ace of 7/JG54, who survived the war with 33 kills to his credits) "SPITFIRE Vs Bf109, Battle of Britain" by Tony Holmes, (ed. Osprey publising 2007), page num. 60.

Yo-Yo How much faster? ..You are you talking about milliseconds, or tenths of a second? VDM airscrew electric pitch control system, was capable to change the blade pitch angle at 3 degrees per second. The Hamilton Standart change pitch at 4 degrees per seconds.

Very well said friends! .. I think that explains perfectly the main funtion of the automatics slats in the Bf-109 wings. :thumbup:

That is already explained above in my others post (I quote myself)

;) Tell me .. what´s "a lot" AoA for you in a flat spin? :D fall like a brick is to fly at high AoA?

are you sure? what AoA do you have in a flat spin?:music_whistling:

Yo-Yo, I think, that you're overlooked many important things about the automatic Slats. 1/ The automatic slats was added to the wing design of Bf-109 for ensure the maneuverability in combat, at low or medium speed, and high AoA. Not only for landing such as; Storch, An-2 o that you say. I think, you must studying, why the Lavochkin La-5 and LAGG-3 (35 series) was equipped with automatics slats, copied from Bf-109 for fighting against Bf-109. In the book " DESIGN FOR AIR COMBAT" by Ray Whitford -1987- The benefits of automatic slats in combat, are well explained:. """ Slat with a slot (slotted stat) Though complex, requiring rails and rollers in addition to actuators, this is probably the most widely used leading-edge device for combat aircraft. However, when account is taken of the resulting increase in maximum lift and its favourable effect on lateral/directional flying qualities, the extra complication is amply justified. .... The slotted leading edge was originally proposed by Handley Page and Lachmann around 1920 and proved extremely beneficial in extending the lift curve, as shown in Fig 64. Designed to operate automatically, it consists of a slat quite free to move on tracks. At low AOA the slat is held flush against the leading edge. At high AOA the high local suctions on the slat create a forward chord-wise force, pulling out the slat. The slot so formed allows the wing to continue lifting to a higher AOA. significantly increasing the maximum lift coefficient. A slight chord extension also occurs. """"" Fig. 64 2/ the abrupt wing drop and ailerons low effectiveness that you say, was not a worrying case or usual case flying a Bf-109, due to it may occur only at landing at very low speed. On contrary, wing drop and ailerons low effectiveness was a very important problem in the P-51 in tightened turns, and this was well know by the pilots, but this stall behavior of P-51 is poorly modelled in DCS too. Moreover. you can turn with ailerons to 45 degrees of bank or more, then and pull for a tight turn with elevator and high AoA, and aileron flushed in the wing, and applying the rudder as necessary, whitout wing drop or any ailerons negative effecs.

Mate , That is your problem, .. You don´t see diferences. For you, everything is perfect, even in BETA state and unfinished. :music_whistling:

If I am not misinformed, the BF-109 V-24 (VK+AB) was a pre-production prototype of Bf-109F with clipped wings as Bf-109E. As a result of the tests in the wind tunnel, the effect "aileron drops" of "Emil" series was removed, but the automatic slats were not eliminated. When the slats are deployed drag is increased, .. if the Slats would not increased the CL properly, surely the Dr.Eng. Willy Messerschmitt would have eliminated the slats without hesitation from the biginning. I think my illustration is not exaggerated, because it is very similar to the areas of influence of the slats marked on the sketch you've shared from the report of Bf-109G6 of 1944. Please, If you want, share the full report of that Bf-109G6 from 1944, so we can see what final results are reporting.

That is supposed , ..but, in what broken stuff of bf-109K4 are they working? .. elevator trim?, slats behavior?, Mk-108 cannon? fuel system? electric-inertia starter? rudder authority? Flaps Handwheel? :huh: There are many stuffs broken, and only a few info

Maybe,.. if there were a reported an actualized bug list, people would cease to report things and more things that result of the same bug. I don't know what things are ED working, and what things ED has already finished their work. Can you say us something? :huh:

what report do you meant? ...War Time or WarThunder?? What kind of reports have you taken to model the Bf-109K4?

It is true, the bug the remain unrealistic in standard DCS:Bf-104K4 ver. 1.2.16, Flying inverted at 1.4ATA fuel pressure decreases at 8 seconds, I'm claiming for 34 seconds at 1.4ATA as the Bf-109G of the Rulskilde accident report. Manowar only tested fliying inverted pulling for positive G´s, Not Negative.

Yes, it is true, we tested inverted flight after the patch OPENBETA 1.2.16.38601.718, ..but G's negative behavior, i think is not fine yet. :(

I agree :thumbup:

Yo-Yo, do you mean like the DCS:Bf-109K4 or a Bf-109 aircraft in RL?? In this drawing of a Bf-109K4 you can see that the wing area, affected by the slats airstream is nearly to 40% of the total wing area. Yo-Yo, 40% of the total wing area is a "small part"for you??:music_whistling:

That's because you do not know to exploit the breakage wings bug. Bf-109K4 break his wings at 6-7G´s, ..and P-51D break his wings at 9G's, .. you only need pull harder than the Bf-109 guys. :D I agree with you namesake, ... In DCS, The stall characteristics of the 109 seem vicious, ...and unrealistic for an aircraft with automatic slats. :huh:

I have not seen anything like this in DCS. Probably the DM of all airplanes must be checked. ..or Mk-108 is weak and must be checked too.:music_whistling:

you're welcome!! Jcomm :smilewink:

I am claiming this issue for months, a Bf-109 is capable of flying inverted 34 seconds Without problems. According to the Danish authority report about the incident occurred to a Bf-109G of the Flugmuseum MESSERSCHMITT in Roskilde AirShow in 2013. That Bf-109G was able to fly inverted 10 seconds and 24 seconds more with the fuel lines P1 and P2 filled with air, before engine stop. Total time of 34 seconds with electrical pump P2 in OFF. Page.Down, you can read my post here.:thumbup: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=140651

the DM and damage effects of Mk-108 30mm cannon of DCS Bf-109K4 is obviously more weak than the reality..