IIIJG52_Otto_

well, ..and .. what are you doing at climb&combat power? :music_whistling: Remember that the bf-109 was pre-trimmed on ground for cruise power, NOT for climb power. No aircraft properly trimmed (for level and hands-off flight ) have pitch-up moment. If there is a pitch-up moment the airplane is not properly trimmed

It is a joke? :huh:, ..NEUTRAL is not tail heavy, like we have now in DCS:BF-109K4 ver 1.5, ... NEUTRAL trim mean, level flight, and Bf-109 elevator trim was setting for level flight at cruise power. Not for crazy looping hands off.:D

EDIT: Apologies for posting the same link in two threads, but the reply is on the two different topics. Who says that nonsense? ..All models of BF-109 had rudder trim tabs, even the tall tail models equipped with Flettner tabs. :huh:

Fuel presure indication in the real BF-109 only work when engine fuel pump is working. It a bug fixed in DCSW 1.5 :thumbup: there is a previus thread about this stuff. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=148611

You need to know something about painting, and the author techniques for copying a Velazquez ( any other art work) , if you want to make a picture that looks like the original. You stated that ZERO mark, mean nothing, but it is false. In whatever oscilating control the ZERO mark is THE CENTER REFERENCE . Try it with audio balance control in your Stereo at home. My friend, Elevator Trim ZERO mark is NEUTRAL, from firts airplanes with trim control to present day. Can you look the wind force actuating in the tail too??

I agree, ..and IMO this conclusion of JG13 is a symptom of the elevator trim control neutral point, is not in the right position. You are overlooking that the Dr. Eng. Willy Messerschmitt, was a expert in aircraft design, even prior to 1935 when he start the Bf-109 project. In 1932 the BFW/Messerschmitt M-35 was a aerobatic aircraft capable to recover from a spin just by letting go of the controls. It was the stepping stone to the Bf-108 and Bf-109. For the standards of design, in WWII era, Messerschmitt designs was very advanced, in handling, stability and performances. I think, iis very difficult believe that Bf-109K4 was capable of do a crazy-auto-loop (as in DCS now), with aircraft trimmed in the neutral mark, taking account these precedents. The design of Bf-109 was extensively tested in wind tunnel, and test flight, and there are a lot of comment, in books talking about his stability and perfect handling qualities.

Very nice words from a Piano teacher ..:music_whistling:

I think nothig to do... but ask to Manowar, .. he say that "take off" trim mark is the same that the Bf-109 "Zero trim mark. :D

Sir yes Sir :music_whistling: Please, Read the definition of "datum" before write your tipical Cantinflas Speech ;) http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/datum There are a lot of datums not only in aviation, and not only in airframes. :D So... where is the "ZERO mark" in your Cessna trim handwheel? ..I only read "take off" mark ...anddd ..Are you a Professional pilot? ..If I am not misinformed you fly a Cessna some sundays, but You are a Piano teacher,. Am I right?:music_whistling:

Irrelevant Crumpp,.. I´m saying nothing about "the design coefficient of lift at a speed below cruise". :music_whistling:

Don´t angry with me, please , ..i'm very worried with the trim problem. :dunno:

I'm not ignoring that, you are right in your point, it is true for the entire angles trim, .. and that is the reason that the Bf-109K4 have -6 degrees of trim in nose-up direcctión, and +1 degree 10 min. for nose-down trim only. This trimmable elevator configuration is able to moving the aerodynamic center near or forward of CoG for optimal corner speed, and for landing approach in three point actitude with the stick relatively centered..

Exactly!! :thumbup:.. ZERO elevator trim is the DATUM (or reference point), used by the pilot for centering the elevator trim control. This is standard for all aircraft with this zero mark. You are right!!, and due to this you say, the Bf-109 was pre-trimmed on ground according to a more precise manifold pressure reference, instead IAS airspeed. With elevator trim in ZERO, this reference for manifold pressure was usually at"cruise power" (i.e. 1.0 ATA/2000 rpm for a RL Bf-109G2 "black 6") resulting in a specific engine torque and nose-up moment, which is the CENTER or DATUM for all flight envelope. For our Bf-109K4 and acording to Kurfurst said, the "Datum" or reference power must be 1.35ATA/2400rpm. IMO in our K4, we haven´t got the aircraft centered in flight, in this setting. IMO pitch effect is wrong. It's exaggerated nose-up for cruise, and engine torque NO effect to pitch axis as reality, when you move the throttle control, now only affect to roll axis. Nose no pitches down when i cut the trottle. (in Zero or neutral trim). Trim zero mark is the center,or neutral point, and it is standard for all aircraft, trust me, i work repairing aircraft. Aircraft with NO center in trim, have not the ZERO mark.;)

The worst problem in an aircraft for stability and maneuverability, "exaggerated nose-up pitch moment at cruise power with elevator trim in ZERO", this remains equal in ver 1.5. Nose no piches down when cut trottle, with trim in ZERO. :(

is there any intention to fix the exaggerated nose-up pitch moment at cruise power with elevator trim in ZERO?

Dear Kurfürst: YoYo take as reference a russian VVS test of a captured BF-109G2 for modeling the elevator trim, see spoiler Now Yo-Yo say that the stick position is not the same for full power, gliding (power-off), etc. Months ago we told that, and he ignored us. ...and this is aplicable to the russian test too performed at 1.3ATA/2600rpm.. For bf-109G2 Max. continous cruise is 1.15 ata / 2300 rpm (Höchtszulaessige Dauerleistung) Economical cruise at altitude: 1.00 ATA/ 2100rpm( Höchste Dauersparsleinstung) ...Kurfürst, please check you own page,:book: ...

Explain your crazy idea, :huh: .. why the russian test is valid for modeling the elevator trim of Bf-109 in cruise when Test of VVS was performed at 1.3ATA,2300RPM?? and previously you are saying that 1.3ATA is not cruise.

Yo-Yo Do you copy? ..Manowar is saying, that I´m right, your VVS test performed at 1.3 ATA and 2600RPM is not performed in cruise, and it is NOT valid, for cruise position of the controls surfaces as you like. Manowar changes his opinion like we changes underpants.:lol: I always said from the beginning, that 1.3ATA, is not cruise power, and the torque force, aerodynamics center, and drag force, is different from cruise power and cruise speed.

I can´t run mission from 1.2.16 in 1.5 beta. even, If I open a old mission ( with some triggers & script). I can´t save it with new 1.5 beta M.E

...and 1.3 ATA is cruise? :music_whistling:

Gracias por la aclaración, Maligno, .. No sé ruso, :cry: No le encuentro el chiste pero bueno.... Thank you for your explanation Maligno , I can´t read Rusian. :cry: I don´t undertand the joke too.

Sorry.. I can not read russian, martian, greek, and some other rare lenguajes. You can also publish the video with the interview to Klaus Plasa, or Erich Brunotte, saying the Bf-109 have NOT ZERO trim in any flight condition, and I will become to silent as the grave.:music_whistling:

That is right, the fuel pressure only increasing with engine fuel pump working. This is another bug fixed in this DCSW versión 1.5 :music_whistling:

i agree, excellent explanatión!! Yo-Yo is this your knowledge in aerodynamics? :music_whistling:

- I think the same as you guys, pitch-up effect remains wrong. :music_whistling: but.. some things are good.. - the improve in graphic quality is good. :thumbup: - the black vision effect at 7 to 8 G´s is good, and now it happen before rips the wings. :thumbup: - the red vision effect is about -3G´s seem good. :thumbup: Tomorow i will test the Bf-109K4 in on-line combat. . - Moreover, my old missions created in the editor ver. 1.2.16, no work in this versión. ...any remedy for this problem? :cry: