Celestiale

I hope Ed sticks to late war. There are other sims who cover the mid-war very good, rumours say that med is coming next there. I hope for Either a northern germany/benelux map with the inclusion of flyable mosquito, typhoon, tempest, Ta152, 190A8, Me410 and AI Lanny, or a northeastern germany map with the inclusion of Yak3, La7, Tu2+the germans from before. Best of course would be a map which Covers the whole area, and all 3 plane Setups :) Also hoping for Pacific, but I think thats a loong way to go till we see it in any new sim:(

Hey Guys, just purchased the 109 (it's in steam sale, for anyone who doesn't know yet), and after aircraft familiarization i figured to do a few offline missions against P51 AI to practise, before throwing myself into multiplayer with this bird. But after seeing the P51 swallowing 8(!!) 30mm bullets (let's just forget those 100 13mm) and keep on flying, i am already fed up with flying against bots. Is there anyway to get the proper DM, and possibly FM (don't know if AI uses the proper one to be honest) for AIs? Otherwise i'll just hop into multiplayer immediately Thanks for your answers

Nice. Now we need only a 109 Berta, and then we can refight spanish civil war :)

to be honest, with the map you are right. But on the other side, i think Il2's next scenario will already be Crimea/Kuban. I would appreciate, if ED would stick to the late war, and include some end war russian planes. Maybe La7, Tu2, Yak3P, and set up some historic-fictional battles on the black sea or normandy map against the german end war planes (maybe a berlin map later). Good thing would be, that alongside the Mig15, P51, Bearcat and Sabre you would have a pretty decent and historical accurate Korea setup, because all those russian planes mentioned before were used there as well.

you are right Production cost Mustang 51.000$ Bf109 43.000RM = 10.000$ (they had cheap "labour force") P47 83.000$

damn i really can't quote two different posts in one of mine. Sorry, i wouldn't say the P40 could hold it's own against a 109(F and later). 109 was better in every aspect, also in turning ability (at least the F4). Hans Joachim Marseille stated in his book, that the P40 was easier to kill then the Spitfire. "Performance comparable to 109E7". K/D of P40 was much much worse then Spitfires in Africa. Some other german pilots who were in Africa first, and later in Russia told that the Yak1 (late/B) is comparable to the Spitfire Mk5, better then the P40. All that was about the B(2) Version, but the F/L had only at higher altitude a significant advantage towards the earlier ones. And to the Mc205..it was leaps and bounds ahead of the P40 (even the Mc202 was slightly superior to the P40). At lower altitudes it was even better then the Mustang. https://www.dropbox.com/s/41zep22osh8lcic/2014-12-16%2004.16.21.jpg?dl=0 photo from my book: C205 climbrate up to 6000m was better then Spitfire Mk9 and Mustang, par to 109 G10. It was as manouverable as the Mustang and Mk9 (better then the German planes, so this "Originally Posted by Hadwell: ... i think a A model 190 might be able to out turn a MC205, but probably not a D, since they had to lengthen the tail on the D because of the bigger engine, both of which hurt its turning performance...")" is also wrong. It's disadvantages were that it was rather slow, and had low performance over 8.000m, up there it wasn't competitive. But under 5k (which also stands in the book, but i won't take 1000 photos here) it was better then the P51D in almost every aspect. Only the divespeed could save the Mustang there. And in italy there was a lot of low/mid altitude stuff going on, due to the constant fighterbomber attacks from the allies. What i have seen so far in DCS the fights are mostly rather low(to mid). I think the Mc205 would be a marvelous plane in this conditions. Maybe, just maybe we will see one here sometimes in the future..one can dream :)

I know i'll do it as well :) but the difference between K4 and F4 in terms of performance is bigger then the difference between P40 and (late) Lagg3 (at higher altitudes the P40s(F/L) advantage becomes bigger) so i think it will be harder to survive here with a P40 then Lagg in BoS.

don't forget the the P40 is coming as well (from 3rd Party developer). That plane will really have a bad time, nothing compared to Mc205 which was a very competitive plane to those in game. P40 will be the plane for the tough basterds and over aces :) i only hope that the serious multiplayer mission hosts won't include the bearcat or such crap to the 1944 scenario

The long range was of course also very important, but the Germans didn't consider the P47 as a plane which needs special attention, the G6 could handle it well, regardless of the highest possible service ceiling. Maximum altitude wasn't too important, the fights did rarely go over 8000m.

Sorry for double post, i am writing with my mobile. Yes, you just said it mate. Good for high alt. They didn't need such a plane against the P47 or P38. But when the Mustang came their Planes in Service have been outclassed up there. So the Dora went into production (they could have mass produced it earlier). So Yes, it was specific to counter the Mustang. The rest of your post is right, but when (enough) Doras were available the 109s were used to attack the bombers, as you said with their Rüstsätze (not only the G6 though, also G14/10 and K4, thats the reason for the big cannon, which the Dora hasn't because its not supposed to attack bombers). But often there were no(t enough) Doras available, so Yes, Best 109 models had to keep flying escort as well

Thanks. Spitfire definitely beats the 109 in every sustained turn. But i don't know right now which spitfire is coming to Dcs (there were many many different Mk9) so unfortunately i can't tell you a Performance comparison. But it had an insane divespeed (in one test flight it reached 980kph/Mach 0,89 without any harm, glad that i wasn't the pilot). And it had a good to outstanding climb rate, depending on the engine. Bad role though (the non-clipped wing)

I agree with the "different class" (still a fighter though), but definitely not a different age. 262 saw frontline action before the Dora or the K4. Anyway...i hope this bird will make it to DCS soon..but the server hosts will have to elaborate a system to limit them..otherwise you won't see much else flying around :huh:

the best fighter of the war was definitely the 262

While i am very new in DCS, i know a lot about planes, especially WW2. I have several books, mostly in german (cause i am german), and i read pretty much every biography from the famous german aces. A few assumptions i read so far in this topic are not entirely right - there is a difference between the Anton and the Dora, and a lot of the assumptions i read in this topic belong to the Anton, but not so much to the Dora. To understand the strengths of the Dora it's important to know, why it was built, first of all. The Dora pretty much the german direct counter to the american p51. When the P51(D) came to europe in bigger numbers, it was the first plane to really outclass the G6. (yes, there were a few other planes, which where better in certain attributes, but G6 could always use her own strengths to turn the tide. With the Mustang it changed, the P51 was better in high speed manouvering, had a better energy retention and had more performance at high altitude, and also better divespeed, so pretty much all the attributes the germans used against their enemies till that point. How the fight was set up there high over the clouds, the G6 did poor against the mustang. With the G14AS (and later the G10,also K4) it became better, but it's weaknesses (bad high speed manouverability and divespeed) stayed, and they couldn't be solved. So the Germans analyzed the Mustang precisely, and built a plane, which countered (and outclassed) the Mustang in it's particular strengths. The Dora. Very good high speed manouverabilty (slightly better then Mustang), better role at all speeds - read an interesting article from a german (ace) pilot, who explained, that the Mustang literally couldn't get a shot at him, even if it was on his 6, because everytime the Mustang came close to a shooting position, the Dora could just do a 90-270° role and evade out of his sight, where the Mustang just couldn't follow (of course only in 1v1 situations). Dora is also even better in a dive, and matches the Mustang in climb rate and energy retention. So in the hands of a proper pilots, the Dora was slightly better then the Mustang in the common combat situations, and probably the best mass produced(!) propeller fighter in the war(Ta152 even better). Of course it wouldn't be wise, to take a Dora into a dogfight against a Yak3 at low altitude. So it's not easy to elect "the best", i think you have to look at the environment, before choosing a favourite. The K4 had still all the 109 weaknesses like explained above, but it had one significant advantage over the Mustang, the climbrate. Read about numerois occasions, where outnumbered german pilots just hit the Mw50, went into a steep climb, and evaded the Mustangs in this way. But this is the only real advantage. In normal combat situations the Dora covered the better armed german fighters like the 190 Anton and the 109, who were supposed to attack the bombers. Dora however provided cover for them, and were supposed to engage and detract the Mustangs from attacking the less performing Anton and 109s. Dora was in contrary to the Anton only very rarely used as Jabo, it was just to valuable for those tasks - but of course, due to the low german numbers of planes and pilots at the end of the war, every german plane had to be able to execute a large spectrum of tasks, so the Dora. But after all it's up to the pilot - and using the strenghts of their planes properly. If you are more a high speed junkie take the Dora..if you are more a turn and burn aerial cavalier, using slow speed hammerheads, the Kurfürst is just your thing!

This Server is goddamn awesome!! You can't even compare it to the other one's. Finally DCS is enjoyable in multiplayer :) :) almost no lag at all, perfect performance..shh, performance is almost like BoS. Mission setup also nice, with the very limited possibilities provided by ED (yet). I think i found my new favourite playground till Dedicated Server comes for BoS:joystick: Keep up the good work :thumbup:

yes, didn't get the latest patch, that's the problem. Didn't know that only the offline-exe does autopatch. thanks

ok, that's good, after the "only ground texture mods allowed" notification i already feared, that i can't use the soundmods. Would not be amused having to fly around in this server with a sewing machine in front of my canopy and softair guns attached :huh: that's a relieve. Maybe one of the server admins can tell me when he is online, what could be wrong

Hey Guys, today i tried twice to get onto your server, first time around 4 hours ago, and second time a few minutes ago. Didn't get in, it always told me "couldn't connect to the server". I disabled any mods in my JSGME, but still couldn't connect. Is it possible that your server doesn't work, when JSGME is used? Thanks in advance

yes, why? Are you telling me next, that they don't use the same model? :ermm:

Just a few days ago i put 8 20mm, and 8 13mm into a Mustang's engine in a head-on pass. (checked it in the mission log, and also in the replay). IRL one of those 20mm would have definitely killed the engine (not damaged - killed!), in game the Mustang didn't even have visual damage on the engine, nor had it any performance setbacks. Kept flying like nothing had happened. Haven't seen a worse/more unrealistic DM behavior in any "Flight Sim" from the last 15 years.. I really hope this gets adressed in the not-to-far future... Otherwise you just can't take the WW2 part of the DCS "Sim" serious. :noexpression:

Ok Thanks for the Quick answer

Hey Folks, does anyone know when the Damage Model from the WW2 (Mustang/Dora) birds gets fixed? Is there anything official referring to this problem? Thanks for your answers

also agree..especially when the map is filled with AI bomber formations, ground units, trains, ships and so on, that there will be a lot of diversity. can't wait. Reichsverteidigung with end war planes has ever been my favourite WW2 scenario

ok, purchasing the map is no problem. Just wanted to be sure, that i wouldn't have to buy the planes again.

ok thanks, nice, then there is nothing else in the way :)