mattebubben

How is the F-5E a Training aircraft?... Its a "multirole" combat tested fighter aircraft that has seen use with a large number of airforces and in some cases been their main fighter. Its a Decent little ground pounder aswell and can carry a decent load of bombs and rockets. the F-5E can be used and its a great little aircraft. Can it tangle on even terms in open air with 4th gen fighters? no but then again few aircraft (that are not 4th gen fighters) can and very few aircraft of the same Generation of the F-5 would do any better then it does. And also please stop talking like everybody in the DCS forum thinks like you. Yes some only want modern aircraft and thats ok (as long as they dont harass those that think differently) But plenty of others want a wide range of aircraft including 1970s and 1960s aircraft why should ED and the 3rd Party Devs "get organized" and focus only on the aircraft types and you personally think deserve being added to the game?... And its also the fact that something like the F-5E is both easier to make and easier to get proper information on. As well as the fact that limitations in DCS would make it difficult to make many aircraft. For example the F-16 would require Air-Ground radar to be fully modeled or you could only use a fraction of its abilities / capabilities and i dont think any of the Devs would be willing to make a aircraft in such a way. And many other aircraft are also dependant on air-ground functionality in order to be fully modeled. And that Functionality is coming pretty soon (together with the F-18 ) so at that point devs will be able to make Aircraft that need Air-Ground Radar functionality to work properly. Another area that limited possible aircraft was the lack of a system for Two seat combat aircraft (like a F-4 etc were both seats are equally important in order to have a combat capable platform) but that is also something that is getting closer and closer to being finished / implemented into the game. Alot of the reasons for the Aircraft that have been made so far is not that they dont want to make other aircraft but that they simply cant. Either by lack of information/Permissions needed or simply because the tech/systems needed in the games to make such and aircraft is not available yet. But as the game gets more and more mature with more and more functionality added we will see that the 3rd party devs will be able to make more and more advanced aircraft. There is always a reason for the choices ED and 3rd party devs make and that reason is not just to Spite you... Atleast im pretty sure that is not the reason.

That Paintscheme has to be included. If only to prove that the show must indeed go on. [ame] [/ame]

The Drakens missiles are not that bad though. The Swedish Drakens carried RB24Js in their late careers (Aim-9J/P) and while not an all aspect missile it was still decent. The Finns used both Aim-9s and K-13Ms on their Drakens and the Austrians Acquired All aspect Aim-9P5s for use on their Drakens in the 90s. In general the Draken has no worse missiles then the Mig-21 has. Since the Draken has a Radar guided missile that is pretty comparable to the R-3R performance wise (RB27) and it has Aim9s (Both Older Aim-9Bs and the newer RB 24J which is a member of the Aim-9J/P Family of Sidewinders) And also the Aim-4 which has gotten a bit of a undeservedly bad rep (Swedish RB28/Aim4s were also modified and should be better then the US onces used in Vietnam) But a large part of why it the Aim4 got such a bad rep was due to being used outside of its envelope and for things it was not ment to do so it would be interesting to have as well. And the Swedish J35J (J35Fs upgraded in the 80s) could carry 6 missiles (Either 6 Aim-9s or 2 Radar guided RB 28/Aim-26 and 4 Aim-9s) so it has comparable carrying capacity as the Mig-21 (If the Mig-21 uses R-60s) So over all it has no worse missiles then most other aircraft of the timeframe. And it should be able to match the Mig-21Bis and F-5E without to much trouble (even though the Draken is a bit earlier with the Last New built J35s were delivered at the same time as the First Mig-21Bis and F-5Es) Also depends on the variant etc. But the Draken generally had no worse missiles then other comparable aircraft of the timeframe. Sure by the 90s the missiles of the Swedish Drakens were no longer top of the line but they were not the worst either and the Austrian Drakens with their Aim-9P5s were "Ok".

I would be happy to help but sadly i think the time zone difference would make it difficult. (seeing as im 9h ahead of you)

Basically the Seeker in the Aim-9 (And most other IR guided missiles) are able to look around to some degree. By Default the Seeker is fixed looking directly ahead (towards the boresight giving only a limited FOV) but Mid-late Era Aim-9s (and most other modern IR-missiles) have the ability to uncage the seeker head allowing it to swivel around more thus giving it a larger area where it can track a target without looing lock etc. So after the seeker has seen a target (giving you a good tone) you press the uncage button which will let the missile seeker swivel around to maintain lock on the target (instead of you having to keep the target on the boresight) and after you have the tone and the seeker is uncaged that lets you maneuver to a good firing position and then launch the missile. (Ps a missile is automatically uncaged after launch to allow it to maneuver for a intercept even if it was no uncaged prior to launch).

I dont have all of the specifics but i will answer what i can from what my understanding of reading the parts of the Manuals we have available is. Lets start with the Nr.1 There are multiple different range modes available for the display. Ranging from 15km to 120 km (with the different ranges being 15,30,60,120) Though the effective range most likely depend on what the radar is used for. For example terrain scanning (of significant changes in terrain) and spotting larger ships should be possible at long ranges (100km + depending on weather etc) Where as spotting smaller details and Aircraft would most likely be limited to shorter ranges. And for the Nr.2 This would depend on the radar elevation or depression used. For all the search modes there were standard elevations / depressions depending on exact modes / altitudes but it was also possible to manually elevate or depress the radar antenna. The standard antenna elevation settings according to the manual for air-ground search modes were between -3,0 and -0,5 degrees depending on the range selected and the altitude flown amd can be found on page 28. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8bCDRcq9BVeNzI2a3laZnBiZXM/view So since the default antenna elevations are pretty shallow even at lower altitude a reasonable amount of sky will be scanned (if the terrain is flat enough) and any RWR within that area will likely be pinged.

Well you have Ranging and Search/Scan modes and then different variants of those different modes. with Air-Ground Search and air-air search modes and air-air and air-ground ranging modes. And also since its the AJS it got the radar Recce capability of the SH 37 (that the AJ37 lacked) were the radar is able to take a "picture" (A camera Saving what was shown on the radar display at that moment) that could later be viewed and analysed back at base though not sure if this will be modeled since dont sea any real use for it in DCS. The radar can be used for navigation (since it can scan the area ahead of the aircraft and give the pilot an idea of whats ahead and how to avoid terrain etc that was especially important in giving the aircraft an all weather low altitude flight capability) Recce (as previously mentioned) and it can be used to assist in the deployment of most weapon types carried by the aircraft. And its also used to find both air targets and naval targets (as well as structures etc) but its not made to pick up vehicle sized targets. (thought it might be possible with a pilot that is skilled at reading the radar picture )

My understand was that there is a type of "auto lock" mode for ranging air targets (to give accurate info for either a gun or missile shot). Basically the Radar search area is fixed and searches a small area cone straight ahead of you. It scans an area 1000m-6000m and its a targeting mode rather then a search mode. So you should have a visual of the target before using it. But when you have a visual target you activate that mode and you put the target within the boresight circle on the hud and the radar will "lock" the target (within 1-2 seconds) giving you ranging information and launch cues for either Guns,Aim-9 or the RB05. But yes the search mode is very basic as it just scans the area infront or above the aircraft and you will see a straight picture on the display (so anything it sees will show up be it a aircraft or a mountain etc.) While the radar is a bit old school (being mainly late 1960s tech) it does have some nice capabilities and it will be very interesting to use.

Have you remembered to put to turn off the Jettison Selector Switch again. Since if its in any position other then the Safe/off (middle) position you wont be able to launch your missile. Since usually you will jettison your external in a hurry before combat so you might have forgotten toswitch it back to the middle slot (thus preventing the launch)

It should be alot better. Atleast i have alot less problem with it and find it works pretty ok.

You remember turning on the Laser? Simply Select the Laser guided missile in question (KH-25,KH-29L or S-25L) turn on the Targeting laser put the pipper on the target and lock it there (either by flying the pipper to the target or by moving the Pipper using the Controls) When you have it on target and its locked / stabilized fly untill you get the Launch Authorized light and at that point simply launch the missile and keep flying towards the target (so the laser can keep painting the target) until the missile impacts. The Laser Targeting System has a small FOV so while you can deviate some from the target after you have it locked you still have to keep pretty straight towards the target. (and make sure the pipper stays on the target once you have locked it since it will try to stay on target despite your maneuvers) You can do small control changes to make sure the pipper (and the laser) is on the desired target even after launch though one has to be careful as the controls are not super precise.

And also if you have a solid lock and get close enough (might or might not be unique to the dogfight mode but dont think so) you will get a small + symbol for were the target is in relation to you so if you put that Symbol in the middle of the radar display (in the cricle) then you "should" get the enemy just infront of you when you get visual. (Atleast that is my experience)

Were more nations the Taiwan that operated the F-5E with AGM-65s so are more possible sources then Taiwan. But still would probably need info from either an airforce (or a declassified Manual) or from Northrop (or somebody that had worked there and has or knows the relevant data. Either way its possible but not very likely sadly =P. Id say optimistically maby a 20-25% chance of the AGM-65 capability being added. But hopefully somebody could find the relevant data and beat the odds =).

Su-17/22 (M3 or M4 preferred) Mig-23 (MF,ML/MLA or MLD) Mig-27D,M or K. F-16A (Block 15 either early or OCU) And something Chinese would also be cool maby a J/F-7M or a J-8? And for a Two Seater option the F-4E.

Yes but again Read the previous posts. Belsimtek has said earlier that if they were supplied with the relevant data they would be open to attempt adding the AGM-65 Capability (with the AGM-65 capable display etc).

ooh good find =) had not noticed that. I really hope somebody could find all the info needed since it would be amazing to get the AGM-65s. Would add so much more potential for DCS type combat since sadly Rockets and unguided bombs are not as powerful as they should be. And most Targets especially in MP are vehicles so HE bombs are less effective to start with. So having the AGM-65s (even if only two) would add some hitting power especially against heavier targets.

One of the main Radars for the F-5E (and the radar our F-5E is equipped with) is the APQ-159 That radar could be coupled with 4 different Display Setups. the APQ-159-1 being for a Single Seat F-5E and had AGM-65 Capability due to the Radar Display having a separate Television mode where it would display the seeker picture from the AGM-65. The APQ-159-2 was the same but was designed for the F-5F and was linked to 2 displays one in each cockpit. The APQ-159-3 (what we have atm) was the single seat display that lacked the Television mode and thus lacked the AGM-65 capability. with the APQ-159-4 being the two seater variant of the -3. Belsimtek has earlier said they would be open to adding AGM-65 capability if they could find enough info (either themselves or if somebody could find it for them) on how the Display and the different modes were operated and how the AGM-65s operational procedures worked etc. (Preferably a Manual from a F-5E/F equipped with that display) But with that info they have said they would be open to adding it. This Capability / Display was available together with the APQ-159 when it became a standard option for new built (and for retrofit) F-5E/F aircraft in the Mid 70s. And it was used not only by the Saudi F-5s but for many others (including but not limited to Jordan,Taiwan and some Swiss F-5s that were given the display in the 90s as they were re-tasked for air-ground duties to replace the Hawker hunter when it was taken from duty). Here is some info about the Saudi F-5s (includes mention of their AGM-65 Capability) http://www.the-northrop-f-5-enthusiast-page.info/AirForces/SaudiArabiaAF.html This might be the Television Capable Display with the Keyword being might. So if the needed information was found its pretty possible it could be added.

Nice =). And also i probably like the Countermeasure placement better (since its easier to both see and reach) Might be a change from early / later F-5 production since the F-5E-3 aggressors were a part of the earlier production. But yea Changes in placements of such systems were not that uncommon between different batches of aircraft etc. I kinda like the look of that Display =) and that is probably the Variant with the TV mode (AGM-65 Capability) And sorry if you felt like we bullied you off this thread that was never the intent =P.

The Aircraft they had modeled so far is based on Documentation of US aggressor aircraft. But Its also the same config as the F-5Es of many other users. (when it comes to the APQ-159 radar its RWR system and no Refuling probe etc) And adding AGM-65 capability while it would no longer make it 100% US aggressor it would add a significant capability and its a modification that could have been easily done to any F-5E especially if they already had the APQ-159 radar (as it would only really require replacing the Radar Display with a different display that would fit right in with all systems / wirings inplace already as well as rewire the 2 pylons to accept AGM-65 Seeker Data) and it would still be a realistic setup for other users. And when you come down to it having a F-5E in US colors doing combat could be unrealistic. And if you simply decided not to carry the AGM-65 (even with the capability) it would be identical to a F-5E without that capability (as it is now). And as such it would only be a matter of changing some code and a likely slight modification to the cockpit texture (depending on if the Radar Display looked any different) While other changes like The Refuling probe for example would require a great deal more (it would require larger cockpit changes as well as a visual model change a flight model change and some coding work) where as it would have less impact on the capabilities of the aircraft (especially game wise).

The AGM-65 Capability became an option when the APQ-159 became an option for the F-5E (mid 1970s) from then on all New built aircraft (or older coult be retrofitted) had the option to mount the New APQ-159 radar and after that option you had the option between to different types of radar displays one of them being Capable Of operating the AGM-65 and the other not being able to do so. And also about the Peace Hawk II thing... Its still classed as an F-5E because it is still a F-5E. US sales of military aircraft (to an export customer) Tended to have a two part Code word. So for the Saudi F-5 Deal the First batch of aircraft was the Peace Hawk I Sales program and then when they acquired a second batch of aircraft that second batch got the Code Name Peace Hawk II third batch/acquisition of F-5s the name Peace Hawk III and so on. It was the same with other Export programs of other aircraft types For example the Israeli Military Sales program for their purchase of the F-16 was names Peace Marble with Peace Marble I being the first batch and Peace Marble II being the second and so on. And the First name of the Code was Always Peace.

could you linnk me the source that claims the Saudi F-5Es had Aim-120s? And also ive already responded to this... the Saudi had no variant called F-5E/F. They Had F-5Es and F-5Fs and thats often written as F-5E/F as in they operate both types. Just like the US airforce Operates F-16C/D and F-15C/D. Does not mean there is a C/D variant only that they operate both C and D aircraft. Recon aircraft were available from the start but by having a different nose section (containing a set of Cameras instead of radar etc). Both AGM-65 Capability and Refuling probes were available for new built aircraft it was not something that had to be modified afterwards. Me and others have explained this time and time again please read through our responses on past pages in this thread.

You could try to make get in connection with Cobra etc (leatherneck) since im sure it would make for a brilliant Teaser for the F-14 ^^.

There is a very big step between the AGM-65 capability and being able to use radar guided missiles =P. the AGM-65 capability was available as an option from the start (atleast from the start of when the APQ-159 was available which was late 70s) and only needed a very light modification (with using the standard Radar display with the TV mode instead of the Standard Radar Display without the TV mode) were as the ability to use Radar guided and BVR missiles was a late stage upgrade that required completely new radar and included new computer systems new cockpit systems new hud etc. So there is a significant step between...

Sure it was possbile they had upgraded later on. But here i thought we were talking about standard armament issues. Since was not you argument the following? So if some nations upgraded years later to be able to carry more missiles (have not found any real info on such upgrades either then those links but they just say numbers no real info on any upgrade or the how / when of it so for me its most likely just Typos or someone unfamiliar with its capabilities guessing it can use 6 air-air missiles because it has 6 weapon carrying pylons) How does that make going from the F-5A (that could in all standard configs only carry 2 air-air missiles though its possible some nations could have later upgraded theirs to be able to carry more just like was done with the F-5E) to the F-5E a step back? and a reduction in hauling ability? And you even mention the F-5E manual and that you cant see the ability there but then when you see the F-5A manual you disregard that info? But what do i know right?:doh:

Yea =P Having 4 Aim-9s would not be a Significant change over having two. If you know how to use the aircraft and its weapons (atleast once the missiles are fixed) then the 2 missiles as well as the cannon should be good enough. And if the Two missiles you have is not enough for you to score a kill then i dont think the two extra missiles would help. It should be no problem to Avg 2-3 kills in the F-5E using the 2 missiles and the cannon if you make your shots count. And Its better to learn how to use your weapons count then to rely on having many missiles so you can afford wasting some. Example being the Mirage 2000. When it came out alot of ppl complained that the 2000C only has 4 missiles and there were a large number of ppl (probably many of them the same that are complaining now) and demanding the Mica missiles be added so we could have up to 8 missiles. Yet any Competant Mirage 2000C pilot should be able to rack up 3-4 kills a flight if he knows how to use his weapons. a Good F-5E or Mirage 2000C pilot will learn not to waste any missiles but to make every shot count and as such be more effective were as pilots of aircraft like the Su-27,F-15 or even the Mig-21 might be more trigger happy and launch missiles that are less likely to hit because they know they always have more to throw at the foe. What way do you think makes for the better Pilot?