BlackPixxel

The radar DOES illuminate the target by being slaved to the angular coordinates of the IRST. Unlike in DCS, where the radar will simply shut off.

Yes, this is the big issue with the current implementation in DCS. The OLS, that should help the radar in unfavourable situations, really hurts the Su-27 in DCS. For example in the DCS F-15C without IRST, when the target changes aspect and crosses through the doppler notch, the radar will be in memory mode, where the Aim-7 even continues to track and propably will not go for chaff. But with the Su-27, that has the OLS to help the radar in situations like this, the radar will instantly switch of when the target crosses through the notch, and the missile will not track and it will be trashed because of the chaff bug. The "sensor fusion" of radar and OLS is completely absent. But not only that: When the radar goes off, the R-27 in DCS will not keep its current path, but go pure on the targets last position. Then when the radar is back on after the target crossed through the notch, the missile goes back to lead guidance. This results in a violent S-maneuver, that kills a ton of speed from the missile. (Two violent turns, one when it goes pure as the target briefly enters the notch, the other as it goes back to lead as the target leaves the notch). So all in all, because of the weird implementations in DCS, the Su-27 with the R-27 greatly suffers from having the OLS. Instead of helping, the OLS makes the R-27 dead weight. I propably make 80% of my kills in multiplayer with the R-27ET, 15% with the R-73, and 5% with the R-27ER. DCS has so many issues that benefit the missile as soon as it is configured as ARH, but hurt it when it is SARH. Especially once IRST is involved. And those issues are not a result of realistic behaviours, but simply bad implementation and a lack of care.

Because MIG-29 manual say so. "ракете предусмотрена работа с уменьшенной вдвое частотой повторения импульсов подсвета цели РЛПК, что позволит осуществить одновременное наведение двух ракет на две цели. Однако в СУВ-29 одновременное наведение двух ракет по двум целям в настоящее время не реализовано." Also, target illumination / radio correction for the two missiles is time multiplexed, not (just?) by frequency. Before the R-27 leaves the rail, one of the commands that the missile receives is which one of the two alternating time slots for radio correction and illumination it should read. You can even find a HUD photo of an export Su-30 firing R-27ER while having two targets locked. So clearly the engineers did not just do the bare minimum R-27 implementation of pure STT on one single target. It can fire all of its missiles, but only the first two will receive radio correction. The others will fly to the target with pure INS until the radar starts the illumination.

R-27R/ER, at least without a hypothetical modification, can only be used against two different targets, not more.

Su-30 with BARS PESA radar can engage two targets at the same time with R-27R/ER. The R-27R/ER was designed from the beginning with dual target engagement capability, and the Su-30 with BARS can provide the required illumination. Launching two R-27 at different targets is not much different to launching them on the same target, because in both cases they will receive independend radio correction commands, and in both cases missile 1 will only look target illumination in "time slot 1", and missile 2 in "time slot 2". It is barely any additional complexity for the radar, so why would you even think that the engineers would not implement such feature into the radar? With R-77 it BARS engage 4 targets at the same time, and it can even do a solid STT lock on those 4 targets at the same time. And considering how often Su-30 are seen with R-27 compared to R-77 variants, I would say that the R-27 was still its primary weapon for quite a long time.

Later in the video he is even putting the cursor box over it, so it is propably the target mark. FC3 aircraft are from older days where the game did not have as much ambitions to be as accurate as the newer modules, so it is no suprise that the HUD / HDD representation is not realistic. There are many other parts missing or incorrect about the HUD in the MiG-29/Su-27. There should be the two guidance rings that you may know from ILS landings to guide the pilot into the proper engagement position for the target, Su-27 should show a visual representation of the time left until the currently flying missile hits the target, OLS has different FOV options and different cursor shapes etc. etc. etc.

It was said that the R-77 will be receiving a lofted trajectory when it receives the rework. If they decide to finally fix the radar ranges for the MiG-29, especially the MiG-29S, then Redfor will have a somewhat capable aircraft (compared to the junk that the MiG-29 + R-77 is right now). R-27ER should also have increased range after the CFD is done, as well as wasting a little less energy (variable PN until it is 25 km from the target). But until then playing on the red side is just pure suffering.

What was the experimental vehicle in this case? The BTR or the Su-25?

Apparently they can. https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/138919-laser-code-1113-and-at-least-su-25t/?do=findComment&comment=3034598

Still it will send way more pulses while the target is in the mainlobe as the radar sweeps by.

If the target is outside of the laser designator range, then the radar will be fired every few seconds to get a range to the target. Not sure where you got the up to 15 s from, the manual says it can take 2-3 s, and 1.5 - 2 s for locking with radar. Yes, locking a target should take a moment, but you do not close in to the target that fast during the time that it would make the degraded ranges in DCS realistic.

Some more information from a different MiG-29 manual: Google translation: The MiG-29 aircraft is equipped with an integrated weapons control system SUV-29, which includes a pulsed-Doppler radar sighting system RLPK-29 (N019 "Sapphire-29") with a digital computer of the Ts 100 series, as well as an optical-electronic sighting and navigation system OEPrNK-29 (C-31). An on-board radar with a mass of 350 kg with a parabolic antenna, which has mechanical scanning in azimuth and elevation, is capable of detecting fighter-type targets (EPR of the order of 3 m2) in the front hemisphere (including against the background of the earth) at a distance of 60 km and in the rear hemisphere - at a distance of 35 km. Range of viewing angles in azimuth ± 70 °, in elevation + 60 ° / -40 ° The station is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 10 targets. The MiG-29S fighter is equipped with SUV-29M with an improved RLPK-29M (N019M) weighing 380 kg, equipped with a digital computer of the Ts101M series. The detection range of air targets has been increased to 70 km in the front hemisphere and 40 km in the rear hemisphere. It is possible to launch missiles simultaneously against two air targets. So detection range is again listed with 60 km for both lookup/lookdown in front hemisphere case, and with 35 km in the rear hemisphere (propably lookup) for the same 3 m² target. Additionally, the MiG-29S has the heavier, upgraded radar with a better computer and even higher detection range of 70 km in the front hemishphere (lookup and lookdown) as well as 40 km in the rear hemisphere. The current DCS MiG-29 module does not even make a difference between the A/G and the S model. They all have the same (underperforming) values.

You certainly know the Su-27SK manual, and for medium to high altitude engagements the radar in DCS is completely off. Manual is for 3 m² target, so I took the JF-17 as target drone: Scenario: JF-17 and Su-27 at 9000 m PPS detection range in the manual: 80-100 km PPS detection range in DCS: 102 km (might even argue that the radar is a little to good here) PPS lock on range in the manual: 65-80 km PPS lock on range in DCS: 87 km (again, better than the manual) BUT! When it comes to lookdown, the radar in DCS falls far behind the values in the manual. And keep in mind: The manual says that the ranges in PPS in lookup and lookdown are nearly identical. MiG-29 documents say the same. Reason is that the spectrum of the target return in a head on encounter does NOT overlap with the spectrum of the ground return. For lookdown, I kept the JF-17 at 9000 m, but put the Su-27 at 15000 m. PPS detection range in the manual: 80-100 km PPS detection range in DCS: 67 km (way to low!) PPS lock on range in the manual: 65-80 km PPS lock on range in DCS: 58 km (again, to low) So for lookdown, the ranges are below the WORST CASE values of the manual. It gets even worse when it comes to performance against a cold aspect target. Here the manual correctly differs between lookup and lookdown, as now the spectrum of the targets return overlaps with the spectrum of the ground return. This affects the radar performance in the lookdown case. In each case, the Su-27 is catching up to the target with good speed to avoid the blindspeed from the altitude line. The target flies at 9000 m in each case, while the Flanker is either at 15000 m (lookdown) or slightly below (lookup) Lookup: ZPS detection range in the manual: 50-55 km ZPS detection range in DCS: 33 km (way way way to low!) ZPS lock on range in the manual: 45-50 km ZPS lock on range in DCS: 29 km (what??!?!) Lookdown: ZPS detection range in the manual: 30-40 km ZPS detection range in DCS: 23 km (again, way to low!) ZPS lock on range in the manual: 30-35 km ZPS lock on range in DCS: 21 km (also, way to low!!) Sumary: DCS has changed since the old days, and now engagements happen at high speed and high altitude, where Aim-120s get lofted far beyond the render distance. But the radar of Su-27 and MiG-29 is stuck in the old days, where those engagement ranges where not even possible and it did not matter that much if the radar was weaker than it should be. To be able to fight in this more realistic new environment, the medium to high altitude performance of the Su-27/33 and MiG-29 radar has to receive an update to the realistic values found in the widely available documents. Thank you!

Which it does in DCS. R-73 are pretty easy to defeat with a few flares, unless you don't know how to turn off afterburner.

Why should the RWR show the Phoenix as unknown, when it knows that it is a missile?

FIXED with todays update! Now R-27R/ER use the safety maneuver time for the catapult launcher (1 s), while R-27T/ET use the safety maneuver time for the rail launcher (0.4 s). This is a good compromise until the safety maneuver time can be made launcher dependend. Thanks alot :thumbup:

My point is not really about the R-27, it is about the fact that the radar of the Mig-29 in DCS is not achieving the ranges that can be found in the documents/manuals. This makes it impossible to do fire a BVR shot against F-16 or F-18, as they will never show on your radar in time. If the radar would perform as documented, then the MiG-29 could at least defend itself with some R-27ER shots.

Speaking of MiG-29 radar, it would be nice if the high altitude ranges could be corrected finally. It is impossible to engage a target with R-27ER with the MiG-29 in DCS, especially the F-16, until you get really close, because the radar can not see it. The detection ranges are too low compared to the real data, especially in lookdown.

Yes, but the R-27 was made with this capability in mind which gets exploited when using a PESA rada (Su-30 with Bars).

It can either send radio corrections or it can illuminate the target for each of the two missiles it can fully support. (Plus the third case, launch between 1 and 1.5* seeker range, where the missile flies without datalink or target illumination until it gets within seeker range to the target.) So for missile channel 1 it is either radio correction, SARH homing or nothing, and for missile channel 2 it is, independend of the previous, either radio correction, SARH homing or nothing. The first missile fired will only use channel 1, the second will only use channel 2. Using this princible, dual target engagement is possible with the R-27R/ER, as each channel can be used for a seperate target. If a third missile is fired, it will fly with pure INS without radio correction and just use the SARH homing signal once the channel of the earlier launched missile switches to homing.

In the 27SK manual it is said that after the launch of 2 missiles the following ones will go for the target without radio correction, not that the radio correction for the first two missiles stops.

Here it is pretty clear: The radio correction signal is send in the exact same time slots where the SARH illumination would take place during the semiactive homing stage. So the radar can send either radio correction or homing to one missile, but not both. So for a long range launch there is definetly no target illumination, just radio correction. The radar time diagram actually has time slots to support two missiles, it is always alternating between these two "channels". So missile 1 can already be close to the target and supported by SARH illumination, while missile 2 was just launched and is still receiving radio correction signals. Any additional launched missile will not receive radio correction, and just fly by pure INS until it receives the homing signal once the radar starts sending the homing pulses for missile 1 or 2.

Good description, especially about it radio correction signal replacing the homing signal, because both use the same time slots. While Chizh is saying that the SARH illumination starts already with the launch of the missile. Question is if the DL signal will be interpreted as such by a 1980's RWR. Also, there is a third case: Launch between 25 km and 37,5 km. There you will/may? still have X__X__X__X__X until the missile is estimated to be within 25 km from the target, the initial flight will be pure INS without radio correction updates.

I recommend Andrey to read "БОРТОВОЙ КОМПЛЕКС САМОЛЕТОВОЖДЕНИЯ, ПРИЦЕЛИВАНИЯ И УПРАВЛЕНИЯ ВООРУЖЕНИЕМ САМОЛЕТА МиГ-29Б" that he can find in the ED websites download section: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.c...files/2378427/

How does the RWR detect the switch to DNP when the missile is still further than 25 km from the target? The radar is not emitting the SARH homing signal before that range. The SARH homing signal for the R-27R/ER is only emitted when the missile is expected to be 25 km from its target.