sirscorpion

Networking is all the same, game engines difference is simply how they compensate. this internet protocol. If DCS uses a different internet protocol and some how then color me impressed.

From my understanding running arma Dedicated servers "which i think are no diffrent from DCS but with far more tools and control over the server, and some compensation", that events are handled by the CPU and game engine and not the net code. What is handled by the net code is event distribution, if those events are too big "large packets" or too many "bottleneck" then that is an issue. However from my observation, that when this happens the server will drop frames, example a some one firing mini guns. this is directly effected by how many messages the server can send, "in ArmA i can set that per player, so in the end you get a total number Per player X number of player X number of AI" Packets in any game come in terms of priority, Guaranteed, Non guaranteed, And error packets. -Guaranteed are the most important ones, kill or hit or collision usually fall under this one, its usually simple and binary. Game usually will crash if some one misses a Guaranteed message. -non-Guaranteed, those handle stuff like, location, ammo count etc, this is something that wont crash, but you will see artifactting. -error packets, this tells a client that an error happend, and compinsates for it "if the engine can do it" How to test for This if script vs ping: 1. to find out if its bottle necking: test if server is using more bandwidth in the first 1 hour Vs the last 1 Hour. If this happens then more information is being generated "equal number of players" -Sub test: -Reduce scripts needs, if fuel runs are 1k then make them 10k. If bandwidth use is the same then 1 thing eliminated. - reduce number of bases and objectives half a map. In regards to Ping. any online game has cycles. think of it like a game of roulette or monopoly or any table top game. every one gets a turn. every one plays their hand, and at the end of the turn server tells every one what happen. IF you have 1 player that's late in playing every one else will get what happen after he played his hand. This is the case with any Mplay game ever made and will be made for the distant future. In other games the "late, lagging" player is compensated by : A: server creates a fake player to hold the information then dumps the info on the lager at once "most FPS, Some sims", you see your self warping, your self insta killed "etc" B: Server slows Time, "most RTS games" C: Ping limit to match the cycle of the game, you cant play Any fps game with 150+ ping, RTS around 300-400" I hope this does not frustrate you just trying to explain it, from my experience "note i have no idea how DCS does this technically but i know how many other games do it" you guys did an amazing job with this and i would like it to run as smooth as possible as well. there are many tests that can be done, heck asking ED for how the network works is a simple one for understanding network compensation, all my findings have been from observations only

No worries, I am not IT expert, but I ran server for long time, from wiki "most common type of lag is caused by network performance problems. Losses, corruption or jitter (an outdated packet is in effect a loss) may all cause problems, but these problems are relatively rare in network with sufficient bandwidth and no or little congestion. Instead, the latency involved in transmitting data between clients and server play a significant role. Latency varies depending on a number of factors, such as the physical distance between the end-systems, as a longer distance means additional transmission length and routing required and therefore higher latency. Routing over the Internet may be extremely indirect, resulting in far more transmission length (and consequential latency) than a direct route, although the cloud gaming service OnLive has developed a solution to this issue by establishing peering relationships with multiple Tier 1 network Internet Service Providers and choosing an optimal route between server and user.[2] In addition, insufficient bandwidth and congestion, even if not severe enough to cause losses, may cause additional delays regardless of distance. As with the hardware issues, packets that arrive slowly or not at all will make both the client and server unable to update the game state in a timely manner." So basically there are several factors that effect game performance, each one is diffrent, each one has a different effect "even though they might look similar" -Too many players = Network congestion, This holds hands with ping as well, so basically the server does not have enough bandwidth to send out information to every one in the "game/ cycle window". players with lower ping will get the information first, as they can download that info faster. -Too many players might also cause CPU use, but that has alot to do with scripts. -Player with High latency and server having no lag compensation. This can happen in 2-3 ways. 1. Player With high ping is sending the info later than any one else, AKA late packet. Basically his input effects no one but him self for the immediate move, but will take effect for a higher move or a more important one "depending on network game architecture" If the server has bad lag compensation 2. Player with high ping is causing the server to wait for him to DL/UL his move, there for makes every one wait for it. so lets say you send information at 100 sec game time, i send it at 101, and the lager at 110. Basically the server will be like aright no moves for 10 sec till i figure this out. and then it works on the other way down so basically you see things move back or forward "warp" Every game works like this in principle, Pure Client to Client means that the server will wait for every one to do the move before the next event or next move, not just players but even AI stuff and game objects "missiles bullets etc". Simple way. i have 200 ping, i fire a missile, that move goes to server, server tells every one scorp fires a missile, renders it shows it on ur screen 200ms + your ping to the server 150ms, but also every other player so a 600ms player will see it 200+400. "but you a lower ping guy say it 350ms so your game tells the server i saw the missile" then the other player tells it 600ms later. and this one way between 3 players, now make that 60 and 2 way and you can see how even 300-400 ping is an insane amount for any game. Now depending on the Network system DCS use there can be many results all of them will be bad, while the high ping player wont know what happens and that every thing is working fine. But for high ping it will be an effect known as desync, some games will slow time " EVE online, Wargame Red dragon", others with authorize the server to make the final call "warthunder, BF3". Some will compensate "to a point ping limit" IL2, ArmA. Seems that DCS has none of that, at least as far as i can see. This just one very small aspect of netowrking and online lag, you have script errors, packet loss, Low cpu cycles, frame rate and a 100 more other things.

xcom, no harm is testing out upper ping limit for a while. I am sure you know more about DCS, but nearly every game ever made due to simple computing has a maximum upper limit to ping, and i am sure i never seen any thing that can take over 300 without issues. Best of luck to fixing the issues, and just trying to offer other testing options. also amazing mission truly how DCS meant to be played and how ED needs to support Mplay. only shame is the lag right now so ill stick to ground attack.

Am sure i can and or i can find some one willing to host for testing. :)

while I know scripts can be an issue, "i run arma servers for 8 years", Ping is also an issue, when its over 300-350. i saw people warping and doing the same thing even when the server just started. Question, is it possible to do a test for this? move the server to a different host location on a global internet line, Frankfurt Germany or London UK both are on the global network. "AKA they connect directly to NA,EU and Asia. and give it a test? and do a test with ping limitations and see how it runs.?

That's not how it works, you can have 100 players with zero ping but if you have 1 player with 600 ping then every one has 600 ping "in function" or how the game works. If the lag was client based then I will lag, or the player with high ping will lag, I will see my self rubber banding. AKA it will hurt me, But at the moment that never happens. At the moment "like the issue in BF3 for example" the player with high ping will warp around gaining major advantage.

@NaCH, on the Fuel side, yes squadrons need to bring in fuel, but still losing 10 aircraft for zero effect is a major and significant fuel run. its simply a compensation till better stability is achieved. one has nothing to do with the other. As deadbeef said its packet loss, along with server location. put in the most simply way. each action is a cycle. so for every input u put you send out data. the data goes to the server, then the server sends the data to every one else. If lets say i send out data at 200ms. and some one at 100 and some one at 600, while the server cycle data at 300, then 1 pilot wont be sending data in 1 cycle, so you get a warp. the thing is depending on the net code, that pilot will send old data after the cycle so the server will try and send old data as well. so you get all the other plays warp as well. and it gets worse and worse every cycle. this is without the "full" packet loss. issue is that the DCS has no proper lag compensation, like lets say warthunder or IL2 for example, the more stuff happens in the server the more lost packets or laged ones gut pumped in. other games can disregard old packets, or even compensate for location by prediction and server authorization. Bare in mind this is my general knowledge so i hope some one with more expert with DCS engine elaborates on it. so a short term solution is to put the server on a data center, with a large amount of bandwidth, and speed, and remove high ping players from the server.

Issue with this is the crashing, you can get a full squadron to take off and then the server crashes, or players crash and lag out. it needs to be x2 what it is or simply half the use per spwan. The major issue to what i can see, is that the server has a bad internet connection, and geo location. to run a monster mission like this the server needs to be in a major internet hub, Germany or UK"London" or NY" for the west side of the world, at least a few gigabit connection on a server blade in a data center. The game IIRC uses client to client so a max ping of 300 is critical to server stability. Lives are also an issue with crashing when the aircraft is in the air, the limited lives is an issue and needs to be x2 waht it is now, or at least 6 per 6 hours. while i think 4 is great for ideal conditions, the server is far from stable to support that. people lose at least 2 for every 4 for D/C. AKA the first 2 are important for risk taking in a session. Thank you and keep up the great work.

Yeah taking a break from it for now the lag is insane, we had a few players with 400-650 Ping. which is the main cause AFIK. I lost 2 lives to lag and drops. Hence why we also need more lives till thing get a bit more stable. Still blue flag is the best Mpmode to ever happen to DCS

Small size works fine enough, no need to make it huge or as it was before, there is a fix as stated by some one above. @Oznerol256, Mavrik And yes its a cheat to fix it, but it does fix it. Simple Game play fix for broken stuff > better than broken game with full immersion. Making it inconvenient for 3 aircraft Vs making 3 aircraft playable is a better option. As i stated i agree with you, but its the lesser Evil at the moment. I would like to see more aircraft viable. the setting can be changed from the server side to use the minimal amount and fine tune the limits.

I think model enlargment should stay on, there are 4 issues atm. 1 the Su25t and the Ka-50 cameras are having issues spoting things on the ground with out it they simply blend in. 2nd part is that Mig21 need to be competitive in regards to the game follow in Blue flags. along with that when the server Has lagg issues the mig21 radar does not work outright"some times". It needs to be a viable choice. 3rd, The resolution effect is different from one PC to the other, some people can not see anything , simply do to them having non standard res. 4th, Lagg and warping, making it easier to re-acquire VID in a heavy lag game play. I wont be asking for this as i think the current implementation is not too great, but over all even though not perfect it is a good temporary solution to the issues stated above, Yea it might be "immersion for some" But it not only does that but utterly breaks the game in limited life mod when you lose a target cuz it just lag UFO from your 12 to your 6.

First off, I love this mod, truly how the game is to be played. I know the lives system is supposed to be something to add to the game, Hell i love it, it adds so much tension . But I lost 3 out of 4 last night simply to the server lag crashing or mass drops. Can we get a few more lives till things stabilize a bit? 6 will be perfect I think. In regards to model visibility, I would like to see at least a Small one "when its fixed". It will go a long way for low tech aircraft like the 21, and Help a ton with re acquiring warping targets. Overall Love the mod, and great work.

Squadron Name: REKT Active pilots number: 6 Pilots Callsigns: SirScorpion,Beeroshima,ilovewindmills, Triupmh, Chiv, Medan Side:Blue Aircraft: All, Mostly Mig21,M2k,F15 A10C and Su25t

This issue is also the same for the shkval on the 25T. This is a major issue and i hope it gets fixed soon. I pretty much stopped doing ground attack online.

The visibility is very in-consistent at the moment, at long range where i should be seeing a dot, I can see a full profile of an aircraft depending on aspect i can ID them from a very long distance. AT close range under 3 NM, it goes to its original model, it seems that or feels like it really blends with the texture around it, I start seeing the blend more so after the last visibility change mainly to the fact that ground targets now are impossible to find when they are in normal size. I some times got lock with the su-25T targeting system, but i cant see any thing on the screen it self aside from what looks like a shadow some times, and nothing the other times. it feels like a step back on the ground side from what it was before EDGE. I think the LOD/3D size, model of object at 5NM should be re considered.

I want a gun, but i also want the GR9. can we just slap it with a gun and be done with this? And give it brimstone. If the Aircraft was tested with weapon system, or certified or qualified then I dont see why we should limit our selves with in service only options.

Happens With the Mig21 as well, I got killed 2km after taking off, now with a working IFF, i am over our base, the Mig21 has a smoke trail of a steam engine, and yet team kills. amazing some times.

Collection of some Mig21 vs M2000 fights, https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/3z1r4f/mig21_vs_m2000_stream_highlights/ So here is my view on it after playing 3 days in that server, The m2000 Will be able to take out migs easily after its issues are fixed, its simply a better aircraft. The thing about however is mig drivers, including my self, who play it in PVP have learned the way to the ambush the hard way facing F-15 and Su27 which are far more lethal than the m2k, so i was able to maintain a positive KD till the last day, where the M2000 started to learn and hit the 10 flight hour mark. First day as a Mig21 I was getting a 3:1 to a 4:1 KD, the second day was around 2:1, the 3rd day was around 1.5:1, quite sure that will drop after all of the issues of the m2k are fixed mainly RWR, IFF, and Missile drag, along with the fact where M2k pilots stop flying at marking altitude to our base just to be intercepted. Another note is that the server had a viability mod engaged so it was far easier for the 21 to find targets "I love that mod, hope it gets fixed and tuned but its amazing for the 21"I am quite sure without that the m2k will be far better due to its great radar.

Perfect :megalol:

Yeah i was just checking on that.

Great chart there is something wrong with the missile for sure, can we get one for the super530 Vs R27 and Aim7? Thank you

I dont think i ever saw anything on the outside zone of the RWR.

3PM

I had some major issues spoting even ground targets with the SU25T camera, which i never had any issues doing so before. Its like the models melt to the ground, i can see them shooting but i cant see the model clearly for an aspect camera that's very strange. Forget about flying the mig21 or any non PGM weapons unless you get them to shoot at something. This is a Major Major issue in my book and needs to be fixed for both air and ground.