Headwarp

I hope you enjoy them. I think you will. I love mine.

and I feel like you are. Right now MSAA is a performance hit. DLSS provides an anti-aliasing solution without the performance hit to people who own a newer nvidia gpu. What aren't you getting there? That happens regardless of any hardware bottleneck, because by using DLSS in place of MSAA you're eliminating the performance hit we expect from MSAA. Anti-aliasing is now on the Tensor cores. Nothing but a potential benefit for those of us trying to squeeze every frame out of our VR rigs while trying to balance that with a crisp image. Throw that concept in with every new nvidia GPU coming in the future having built in support for the feature, why ignore it? They are one of TWO major GPU manufacturers, and leaders of the industry for a reason. MSAA might still look a little better.. but DLSS 2.0 is far better than what we have without it. It's like a darned if I do or darned if I don't situation with MSAA and has been for some time now. You're welcome to disagree with that, but frankly if there's an option out there that doesn't equate to a trade off between framerate and shimmering scenery.. I've been waiting years for that in DCS, personally. Like.. I can live with the image quality I get with MSAA 2x, even at lower resolutions. But since a certain patch I can't live with the performance with it on. I've had to learn to live with the image quality with it off. Can't say I'm satisfied with that result. More than any new module, I'd love to see improvements to performance given the range of current hardware. . Looking forward to Vulkan and hopeful it can make more efficient use of our hardware in DCS, and even then I'd still be encouraging the ED team to look into DLSS as an anti-aliasing solution. If people also want FSR by all means.. hook that up too if possible.

IMO just save up for a set of MFG Crosswinds and never worry about pedals again. Yes.. you're going to pay $300+ shipping from Croatia (if US based). But the composite material is never going to break on you, if the electronics go bad they aren't hard to replace, and Milan sells replacement parts on his website should it happen outside of his warranty period. He's pretty quick to answer emails if you ask him anything. Not to mention, when you feel how smoothly they operate compared to any plastic POS you're going to get from Thrustmaster, CH, Logisaitek you're going to be all smiles. I bought mine back when he was cnc milling them as a one man operation and had a waiting list and it was worth the 6 month wait back then. He usually has them in stock now. I've since added a hydraulic dampener that he also sells.. I bricked the MCU in them somehow.. milan sent me a replacement MCU for the cost of shipping, I was 2 months outside of the warranty. All I needed was a hex key and a screwdriver. It was stupidly easy to replace. My toebrake cables had a short.. I replaced them. Each process took me like 10-20 minutes. The design is genius. You can take it apart easily and without fear of damaging anything. The ONLY wires are the toe brake cables and the USB cable from the pedals to the PC. Replacing any of that requires zero soldering. And for flying helos it's pretty awesome to unhook the spring and just use the hydraulic damper I installed. Barring that, find another set of CH pedals or maybe the thrustmaster T-flight. I'd avoid the saitek now logitech pedals like the plague. Cheap soft plastic and the wiring inside is insane. Nothing's going to offer you what pedals offered you paired with that warthog. The Crosswinds have a much higher chance of lasting you a lifetime though imo.

Disagree..anything that increases my performance to image quality ratio is a holy grail for VR in DCS. The next thing can be the Ark of the Covenant. Enabling MSAA 2x drops me from like 80fps on Caucasus in VR to 60, with random spikes down into the 40's using native res in the Index. Disabling MSAA lets me run around the same map getting 80fps @80hz, with some spikes into the 70's. DLSS replaces an anti-aliasing method that we've known causes a massive fps hit when combined with deferred rendering, which is one of the rendering methods FSR and DLSS were advertised as being useful for. It's not about an "FPS BOOST" it's about not sacrificing FPS for MSAA. Or the alternative gaining performance by sacrificing a crisp image that isn't jaggy and shimmering. "just upping the resolution" doesn't make up for a lack of anti-aliasing and is also limited by hardware. MSAA 2x at lower resolutions still looks better, but performs worse. DLSS doesn't come with the performance hit. Whether you like it or not and proprietary or not for people who have a 20 series nvidia card or higher it provides a much better alternative to MSAA than FXAA. In VR particularly, I'll take every performance boost I can get. running at half the refresh rate is a crutch that comes with its own visual artifacts. This is putting the anti-aliasing on hardware that is currently not in use within DCSW. I mean if you don't want to use it that's cool but anybody with a 20 series nVidia card on into the future could potentially benefit from DLSS implementation. It might not matter to me as much if I were still playing on a pancake.. it did when I was running a 980TI @ 3440x1440 back when deferred rendering became the only rendering method supported by ED staff. Without msaa that was pretty shimmery. Personally, I don't see why one would bother arguing against this. It's an optional feature. Options make more room for more people to enjoy the experience something like DCS might offer. It's like the people that tried to argue against supporting wide screen monitors in online gaming because they didn't want to spend money on one themselves and labeled it "unfair." The people who had them loved them and started buying games that supported the hardware available to their customer base. Eventually 1080p became a standard. I have more and more games featuring DLSS and FSR is even starting to pop up in them.

Hate to necro a thread but.. Just having started playing another game with DLSS 2.0 set to balance settings and getting great frames on my pancake monitor and stellar image quality.. I think it's an oversight not to jump on these technologies. It's been awhile since I've launched DCS but the Anti-aliasing situation ever since it was dictated that deferred rendering was the future for DCS World has been atrocious. Pancake mode probably not as much, but the fact of the matter is DLSS 2.0 in every game I've played so far that utilizes it offers higher framerates and BETTER image quality than if I were to bump up MSAA, TAA, or other forms of anti-aliasing. We have been griping about performance for years at this point and are barely managing to get a good balance of image quality and performance in VR. DLSS 2.0 is the solution, at least for nvidia users. By all means implement FSR as well.. but DLSS 2.0 would probably eliminate 99% of my complaints about DCS World and performance while letting me stick with my 2080Ti for many years to come. The rumor mills are already talking about the 4000 series of GPUs. Frankly with the way this resource hog of a program seems to drive people to the latest and greatest hardware just to get a clear image with a decent framerate, especially VR users, it's astonishing that the people who were intelligent enough to throw together a flight sim like DCS World haven't already jumped on this technology. DLSS in VR sounds freaking amazing and it hasn't exactly been easy or budget friendly to source new hardware for quite some time. I'm all for new features and graphical improvements but at the same time we have to respect the limitations of hardware today and try to optimize that experience. I know ED discourages proprietary tech. And up until now it's been for good reason.. but when the technology is this much of a boost to image quality and framerate, it's a bit beyond just a gimmick. There have been numerous requests for performance optimizations since the launch of DCS 2.5, which I was and still am in full support of. It was nice to see the team cut some of their workload by declaring 1.5 end of life, but, at the time I was under the impression that the goal of Edge was to improve graphical quality with minimal impact to performance. Instead, again, especially in VR, the brunt of my game play has been trying to fine tune my system for the best balance of visual fidelity and performance in VR and never really feeling satisfied with my results. If anything were to push current available hardware to potentially not require crutches like ASW/Motion Prediction etc etc it will be this highly impressive anti-aliasing technique called DLSS.

I've never had a problem finding my mouse in VR. I might fumble for keys but, as long as I can find my home keys or the edges of the qwerty part of the keyboard I can generally hit what I'm aiming for without issue. I do have to feel around a bit for my TM Cougar MFD panels... but my stick and throttle I know by muscle memory and feel. I have a Blackhog B-explorer A model in front of my throttle for extra buttons.. I have a logitech G13 that I'd wish they'd release without the LCD panel and mechanical keys on the left of my throttle which I've programmed for UFC function, or whatever extra controls I might find useful depending on what aircraft I'm flying. There are some trade offs with VR.... but ultimately, for simming I couldn't go back to TrackIR having exerpienced it. It almost literally puts you inside the pit other than you can't feel your surroundings and you won't feel g-forces when maneuvering. The biggest caveat is that VR is going to generally want the the best hardware you can throw at it in flight sims. It's also worth noting that if you attempt VR, be prepared for understanding the multiple places one can change rendered resolution (I find it best to rely on only one method and I generally opt for the SS% slider in SteamVR vs any in game settings).. it's also good to understand you need to be able to maintain, at the very least, a frame rate equal to half the refresh rate of the VR displays, which can and will cause some weirdness here and there unless hardware catches up to the demands of DCS in VR and you can maintain a framerate equal to the refresh rate. But generally, a minimum fps of half your refresh rate will generally be your fine tuning point for any VR headset in DCS for smooth nausea free gameplay.

That's fine.. why are we still talking about this? You like the Pro 2. I think it wasn't very well thought out. Again. NUFF SAID. But I mean.. at the same time I'm not going to have my experience minimalized because someone else doesn't share the same ideology on how hardware and software should behave. I don't like the automated features. You're cool with it. I think we've made that clear. I'm heading off now, you guys enjoy your headsets. I mean.. my request is hey HTC can you let us disable this automated feature? That would be great. If you're arguing against that option.. i'm just going to shake my head and leave. I've spoken with my wallet thanks.

Yet your logs still display your GPU being tested, and your rendered resolution being set for you based on that number. It happens to result in a consistent resolution with your GPU. Again.. quite a small percentage of people rocking a 3090 out there. The rest are on Ebay for like $3500 or in a prebuilt PC running like 5 grand. No thanks. Like I say.. glad it's working for you.. hope it doesn't break in the future, being one more software layer capable of doing so. My experience with a different GPU is different than yours and I want the automatic BS to be turned off, which seems impossible. It's still on for you. It's still doing the calculations afaict. Different strokes for different folks and I'm choosing to go back to headsets that give me control over basic features. Nuff said from me. Y'all enjoy yourselves.

Your resolutions were consistent.. your logs showed the automated stuff still happening.. when you hit the same resolution over and over your GPU test speed was within like 3 megapixels per second. Again.. it shouldn't taking buying an impossible to find 3090 to get a consistent resolution.. say what you want to say.. but I mean.. i covered what I saw in your logs with a bit of detail honestly. Glad you're enjoying your headset. I'm sending the "Vive Noob" back to B&H.

What it boils down to really for me.. is I'm not going to support the design choice of automated resolution settings, the inability to uncap framerates etc etc. HTC wants me to buy an $800 headset, it needs to allow for control of basic features like setting my resolution. Anyway.. I've reboxed the Pro 2. I'm done here fellas y'all enjoy. i might check back in a few months and see if anybody's saying anything differently.

The panels have almost exactly the same native resolution as my Odyssey.. it's about the lighthouse tracking and honestly the games I'd make use of that in looked fine as is at that resolution. The higher resolution headset really only mattered to me for simming. I understand what I bought. Thanks though.

Editing that config file seems to have no effect. But the GPU testing thing does seem to be a bit more consistent than it was in previous versions. I do find it interesting that you and imacken both got a consistent resolution several times in a row but, but at least in imacken's case it appeared as if the gpu testing was still happening when I read through his logs. Now, if your vrcompositor logs were to also show an adjusted resolution equaling 3750x3750 like Imacken's were when he switched to Ultra from Auto.. could point to a bug with 20 series cards? My guess would be it's still doing the thing though, just more consistently, at least with a 3090. So they are working on the software, HTC support didn't bother to get back to me until after the update which makes me think they were trying to work with me and that update did close the gap between resolution changes on my end, but at this point I've asked them to explain to me why I can't simply disable any and all automatic resolution settings and I may delay another day to see what they say. For the general record, not just to sup.. I'm absolutely fine with having to lower my resolution a bit if/when needed. In fact I counted on having to make adjustments depending on different games. Hope y'all realize I do hope they fix this.. the Reverb G2 is not an option for me and I'm staying away from Pimax. The index might not even work out for me frankly due to size and ipd limitations. Thanks again everybody for all your help. I might revisit the Pro 2 one day if the software ever makes more sense to me.

I just did a whole schpeel about unboxing my ready to be shipped back Pro 2 to disable that setting in default.vrsettings and it had no effect unfortunately. the CPU and motherboard, and even a new drive or two has changed. But the rest of my sig is close enough until I feel like updating it. It's not the first time you've pointed a finger at something on my end and I have done everything in my power to refute that aside from reinstalling windows which seems ridiculous and way overkill for a less than month old install on a mostly brand new PC that works fine other than some unsatisfactory (IMO) behavior from the Pro 2. I was getting better performance with my Odyssey than I was my 8700k even. And while it seems to be less variation at the moment.. I'm quite curious what happens if you plug the Pro 2 in to your pc with a 2080Ti in it? I think it'd be a more interesting conversation than several we've had about automatic gpu scaling, what it does, what it measures, etc etc and GPU strength. Though I do very much appreciate you for pointing out where to find the log files and everything like that it really did put some things in to perspective. VR Compositor logs from both of your machines with the vive pro 2 would be an interesting read for me honestly.. might even point me to something to send to HTC By no means do I expect you to take the time to do that. But really there's only one solution I'm looking for in this regard... and that's a consistent display resolution setting.. and while I wish I had one? The answer shouldn't be "Buy a 3090" ya know? I could make this thing work for me, at least resolution wise, if not for some weird design choices. That being said- the variation IS less it seems in 2.0.17.4. But still my most recent tests on ultra @ 150% ss I was jumping between 2838 and 3008. Others within 100 pixels. That's cool and all. But.. I can't think of a good explanation why we can't turn it off other than developer neglect. Or someone thought they had good idea, but didn't?

Might want to re-read a little bit I stated they are showing up more consistent since the latest update after imacken shared his logs with me. Kind of beating a dead horse with the whole "Your 2080TI is too weak" thing. I was easily riding 60fps in IL-2 and DCS. The problem being I'm unable to find out how much I can really squeeze out of the setup because the testing conditions are not consistent. I have put my system through far more rigorous testing than anything vive console is throwing at my system with its 2880x1700 render target acheiving 261 fps. It's stable. Thanks. It's not a 3090.. but it is a 2080Ti powered by a 11th gen intel @5.1ghz that has run stable in two different PC builds at the same exact OC settings without issue in for more demanding tests than what Vive Console is putting my GPU through at startup and it has easily handled some pretty high resolutions in VR.. but with a headset that didn't change my resolution ever. Unless I changed it. It was fixed. I was running the odyssey on a 980Ti before I got my 2080Ti.. I couldn't have done that if WMR+SteamVR was changing my settings all the time. I was barely getting away with native resolution. Again.. if performance were the issue.. I SHOULD be able to solve that by moving the resolution slider down. The issue rather, is that Vive Console's invisible resolution slider is doing it for me, without my consent. And it goes up. It goes down. It's simply inconsistent. What we do have is one new component to my system that is behaving in an undesirable manner. I mean.. if you bring one new animal into your house and notice a bad smell.. is it the houses fault? Do you rebuild the entire house in the hope that it deals with the stink? Check your VR compositor logs.. I bet your GPU Speed tests are within about 2-3 units of eachother and your Estimated throughput is pretty much the same everytime for your last 3 restarts. Feel free to correct me. Mine are showing up about +/- 20 megapixels per second is what MP/s is I guess. Still..give me an actual GOOD reason why we can't just run this headset at native resolution and adjust in steamVR as needed? That's my current quesiton to the HTC support staff anyway. I would be just freaking dandy, if I could just turn this automatic BS off, sup. Really. it's working fine your 3090 with little to no variation. That's great. You're part of like 1% of gamers. Stilll.. disabling "Automatic" in Vive Console isn't actually disabling the automatic resolution scaling. How that doesn't sound broken to anybody else is beyond me.. but I disagree. Thanks for running some tests though.

Yeah those settings don't bseem to be doing anything at all unfortunately. Interestingly enough.. in C:\Program Files (x86)\VIVE\Updater\App\ViveVRRuntime\ViveVR\ViveVRServer (or the steamapps equivalent) there's an executable called ViveVRServer.exe. When i click it.. it starts vive console and SteamVR.. but not before doing this

Aight den. Reckon I'm going to cut the tape.

I overlooked that your reddit link also showed the default location when installing using ViveSetup. Vive Console for SteamVR is a app you can find through the steam store btw. You'd know if you did. That being said It won't let me edit the file because of admin rights or something on my drive lol. That could explain a lot. I guess I have to dig this thing out of the box was shipped in and test this now. Or honestly.. if somebody already has "DisplayResolutionAuto" : false, in their defaultvr.settings file.. mind doing a couple SteamVR restarts and uploading your vrcompositor logs? It would save me some tape if it doesn't stop the automatic scaling. I have some doubt doubt.. the last post in the reddit thread dburne linked said it doesn't seem to stop Vive Console from doign the auto thing.

Alright.. well I just found that file. Also seems like it's set to read only lol. Which.. um. Might explain some things. Guess I'm going to unpack the box.

Welp. I'm going to have to dig around this one because after my latest install of the vive software, opting for vivesetup.exe, I don't have a vive folder in steamapps. I did.. before I uninstalled everything vive, as well as SteamVR. But I opted not to use Vive Console for SteamVR this time and attmpted installing everything using the default directories in vive setup More digging yay. Thanks dburne for digging that up for me!

#1 Thank you for obliging me. You've been the most help I've had with this yet, including HTC support staff. . It really puts things into perspective. Looking at your logs, it looks like calculations on the GPU are still being made. One thing that immediately stands out are these lines [2021-06-18 08:10:06.276 +0 0x2C34 INFO Initialize] GPU speed test result: 2328 MP/s [2021-06-18 08:10:06.276 +0 0x2C34 INFO Initialize] Estimated default throughput: 2503 MP/s In order of the restarts shown in this log file.. they go like this 1. 2328, 2503 - Adjusted Render Resolution 3791x3791 (this will actually be closer to the resolution reported at 150% in steamVR, steamVR will be ever so slighty higher) 2. 2312, 2503 3771x3771 3. 2311, 2503 3771x3771 4. 2307, 2473 3763x3768 5 2302, 2503 3750x3750 6. 2301, 2503 3750x3750 7 2302, 2503 3750x3750 8.2301, 3503, 3750x3750 It looks like your GPU just stopped deviating enough for the resolution change, rather than an effect caused by turning off the automated settings. Other than that, I'm seeing no difference in those logs between Vive Console's automatic setting on or off, other than, that's when your gpu suddely decided to start running at the same speed everytime. Looking at my own logs.. the latest software update DID seem to cause more consistent results with my GPU Speed test and Estimated through put and my latest log only shows a deviation max of about 100x100 pixels. 10,000 pixels ain't really a big deal. So..okay. That to me says that's what they've been adjusting in response to my talks with the HTC Staff. The automatic resolution scaling feature. They've been making it more consitent. But.. my GpuSpeedTest number is higher than it's been showing. Estimated throughput, lower than what previous versions showed. Much closer together than previous versions between restarts. Like, the first day I had the headset it reported the same resolution multiple restarts in a row, but I think like your logs show, my gpu was getting results close enough for it not to change. I just don't know why anybody at HTC thought this was necessary or what purpose it serves other than so far, giving me a headache. I may make one more mail to the staff member who's been dealing with my frustration, and ask him why they can't just let us disable this automatic resolution thing. Sorry for missing that. I think I probably saw that setting then and it was disabled. Thanks again guys.

Much appreciated. Checking it out.

OH wtf. lol.. dude.. gonna make me pull this thing back out of the box.. format my GD OS that I installed less than a month ago on a brand new PC. On my end that setting is already disabled. Question.. is SteamVR on your C:\drive by chance? lol What version of Vive Console are you using? Before I actually pull this stuff back out of the box.. can you upload your most recent vrcompositor log from C:\ProgramData\HTC\ViveSoftware\ViveVRRuntime\logs? It should have today's date. I just want to look for differences in mine as far as how it's assigning rendered resolution. I would love to see what that says. P.S. anybody in this thread can chime in and share how this is behaving on their system by the way. If it's just me.. it's just me and that means I can probably fix it. I've just put quite a bit of effort into to trying to already, and wasn't about to wipe my system for one new component that wasn't behaving as expected. But if it's isolated to me.. yeah that's the next step, and honestly leads to something I missed from my vive software install before I actually had the headset. Would be kind of embarrassing for me honestly if it turned out the others I've seen mention this also, didn't realize they had their automatic settings enabled, with all I've had to say on the subject. Being embarrassed would be a good thing.

If you can find a link that describes what file and what to type in to the search box.. I'd love to try it. You know if this was a Vive Console or SteamVR file? I have looked around for some kind of setting with no luck. Found some mentions of asynchronous reprojection and what not.

Yeah I don't understand why you would expect it to make any hardware based calculations for you at all when you have unchecked "Let Vive Console handle this for me" Chose 2448x2448 @90hz, and set Rendered Resolution from auto to custom in SteamVR. Set the SS% slider to a place of your choice. Other than the slight increase that's calculated for lens distortion based on the shape of the HMD I.e. My odyssey at 1440x1660 per eye would be slightly higher in steamVR, but it was always the same number as long as the SS% was in the same spot. It only changed when I moved the slider. We already had an automatic setting that defaulted to 150% of native resolution. We also had the option of manually defining our rendering resolution, at least by percentage. What point or merit is there to circumventing that option? The only benefit I can possibly fathom from forced automated resolution settings is for someone who is not familiar with the effect rendered pixel count has on CPU and GPU performance in 3d titles. At the same time.. those are the same guys who jump into the forums wondering why their game is running like crap, not realizing they've left settings to default and they're rendering at 150% of the G2's native resolution on an old gpu due to SteamVR's automatic resolution scaling Neglecting to address that and give me back control over my resolution settings.. the "Vive Pro" is not the name I would've personally chosen for this headset. Anyway. Enjoy. Y'all have fun.

Which, is also what one other 3090 user reported to me only slight deviations.. but it's still automatically changing your resolution for you. Right? I'm not sure since the latest update.. but there's also a pretty big difference between Ultra and Extreme mode resolutions when I switch.. even though it specifies the same resolution, at a higher refresh rate. And I mean.. even funnier.. if I leave the automatic setting on in Vive console.. it basically behaves as if I chose the Ultra setting. How about you? Is it putting you at Extreme 120hz by default with your 3090? No? It's just changing the resolution.. which again.. what exactly are we disabling with that setting? a locked 90 hz refresh rate? It just all kinds of doesn't make sense, at least from the cheap racing seat under this lifelong mid life PC gamer's hind end. Even if I had a 3090.. i'd still want consistency personally. Seriously. If my rig can't handle what I choose in Vive Console.. I already had the option of turning down the render resolution in SteamVR. Why force automatic resolution settings on me? In a run of 6 restarts for me I ranged between 7.8m-8.1. In another 5 I was as low as 7.2m in some cases. Switch to extreme mode it's down to 6.1m-6.6mn per eye right.. so that's like 1m more pixels rendered total, but way less than rendered in ultra mode. I've done this way more than 10 times as well. What's strange to me, is that the damned thing won't let me just pick ONE resolution and keep it there like any other display on the market. But what ever makes sense to you man. Pardon my frustration as well, it's aimed at HTC honestly.. when I saw the specs.. I was like YAY finally a headset big enough for my head with more pixels. Anyway. I'm over it. Hope everybody who doesn't mind this enjoys theirs, I've personally spent way too much time finding that exact spot where I don't dip below 45fps, or too far below 60fps in my flight sims. which is my #1 use for VR anyway.