PeaceSells

Let's recapitulate: A module is released with an announced feature to be included. More than 4 years later, still without the feature or any explanation (despite buyers asking) the dev appears and, without showing or releasing or any form of alpha or beta, says that it will be a matter of months IF no showstoppers appear. And for some reason some of you are very grateful for that.

And, if showstoppers appear, it will be a matter of what, years?

Interesting, I always thought it would be a circle instead of a square - a diameter of 8 mil (although I don't know how relevant this is).

^^ Hey Looney, thanks! I will!

I'm now doing smaller adjustments at a time when using the click method. The thing is the bump is proportional to the amount of force the AP is applying to the controls at the moment you click the trim, not to the amount you are applying when you click the trim, so many times clicking for small adjustments does yield a big bump. I read on another thread that you also have to trim constantly to avoid build up of the AP actuation, in order to avoid big bumps. In my experience that's true, but I didn't discipline myself to it that constantly yet. Maybe because it's counter-intuitive and, let's be honest, flying like that makes no sense. But if it's necessary, then be it.

^^ We aim to help

You probably already know this, but in the Ka-50 controls setup, Axis Controls tab, there is Absolute Shkval Horizontal and Vertical Slew assignments, you can assign them to analog axes (mini-stick, for example). But I guess that's only because of bad quality mini-sticks (at least in my case it is). Do good quality mini sticks exist?

Yes, what I do is use TARGET to generate the 'Thrustmaster Combined' and set the throttle's POV hat as the 'Trustmaster Combined' POV hat and set the stick's POV hat as 4 normal buttons. This way I can use the stick's POV hat as the shkval slew, because I also like to have it on the stick, like the real chopper. The stick on the T16000M only has one hat and it's a 8-way hat... Would be nice if ED made the shkval work normally with 8-way hats, would save you from having to use profiling software...

After trying the BS2 shkval with both my 4-way hat and my ministick (I own a T16000M HOTAS), the 4-way gave me much better results. But that's because of the low quality of the mini-stick (would like to hear if there's any HOTAS with good quality mini-stick out there) and because ED programmed a very welcome acceleration for the 4-way hat that makes it move faster if you hold it long enough, but slow if you release it quickly. The low quality mini-stick can't even come close to that precision, even after much adjustments to sensitivity, deadzone, curve, etc. Weirdly, the 8-way hat doesn't work very well, because the diagonals aren't accepted...

Not if done right...

^^ Hmm, if he was aware of you there in pics 2 and 3, than I guess that IRL he would've cut you in half right there, trees in the way or not. So maybe 2.1 is the extreme opposite - trees give helis an unrealistic advantage? Hmm, I want to experiment with this myself too... I need to find those trees in Nevada, cause I don't own Normandy.

^^Hey man, nice demonstration again! I guess it makes sense that they don't try to shoot you through the foliage for as long as they don't know you're there. If you know where they are (which I guess you did, because you created the mission, right?), then you should probably have the advantage in spotting them through the foliage and firing... Plus I guess heli pilots do have the advantage of visibility in relation to the crew inside armored vehicles, in general. I don't know about AA vehicles though...

I think you're 100% right. I never played DCS multiplayer, which is funny because the other games I play I only play multiplayer exclusively. I guess I still lack confidence in DCS to go online. Your post might be what it takes to make me start with it, thanks a lot for your insight. I know what you're talking about... multiplayer, if done right, is the real sim experience.

Hmm, I just can't seem to find these dense tree areas, but I do believe they block AI view/locks. Anyway, almost all missions and campaigns that come with BS2 are for Caucasus, so I don't see much point... Thanks man, that was very good info! It fills me with hope for the future!

But then... where's the immersion? I get the point of the balancing... but is balancing what makes it fun? I mean, tic-tac-toe is balanced, but is it fun?

Well, you know... it's only really unintended advantage when you're not aware of the advantage... After you became aware of it, you can't really call it 'unintended', can you...

Yes, I'm referring to 1.5. In 2.1 I own Nevada which doesn't have trees that AI (or you) can hide behind. I don't own Normandy... You brought a good point, I'm very curious to know if the trees in Normandy and the new Caucasus will block AI view and missile locks and if they will be collideable.

I just noticed that when I send my wingman (AI) to recon ahead it spots hidden targets that a human pilot would just never spot... So I currently don't use wingman recon, otherwise it's just a game of shooting blue squares on the ABRIS... What do you guys think?

Thanks for bringing this info to this thread, Weta43. I agree with you that we're unable to prove that the BS2 system is wrong compared to the real aircraft. It's not also my intention to ask ED to change stuff based on just our interpretations and without any proof. But anyway, considering these: - The military and the companies who develop for them aren't exactly know for their passion for sharing with the general public detailed info about their technologies. Maybe Kamov didn't put the same level of enthusiasm in reviewing their trainer version of the sim and the commercial (our) version of the sim... - You said that, over the years, ED has changed some stuff in the sim that people have demonstrated that were wrong. This kinda suggests that Kamov's review wasn't that enthusiastic? (Unless theses changes were done before Kamov's review?) - I have't seen anyone demonstrate the logic in the current system. All the arguments were only based on 'Kamov approved it' or 'you have to get used to it'. Yes, you can get used and get good with it, and you could also get good in doing strafe runs in the A-10 flying upside down. Whether that's the most effective way of doing it or not is another discussion. - Frederf does have a strong point and I have to agree with him. There are many even simpler ways than what he described to make things much more effective. Hard to believe that Kamov actually designed it like that... Considering these, I do highly suspect it's wrong. Anyway, regardless of that, I am loving BS2. I acquired it about 2 weeks ago and, been playing it addictively. I can see it's a module I will enjoy for a long time.

@159th_Viper: This has nothing do with being able to fly the helo... I own BS2 for what, 2 weeks now and I already can make it do whatever I want, autopilot on or off. Bump or no bump in trim, it makes no difference, it's not a hard aircraft to fly. However, if this is accurate to the real life shark or not is a different story, and that's my real curiosity. I, like most ppl here I believe, want to think that I'm flying it as close as possible to the real thing...

@Frederf: But do you know if the real shark is like that?

This is an ingenious way of flying it, indeed, and I never thought of that... But I guess that, IRL, if this was the way to fly the shark, I think it would have the AP channel buttons on HOTAS? My point with this thread, even if I didn't directly say it: The autopilot + trim system's purpose is to stop the shark from oscillating in unwanted directions, and to hold it steadily at your chosen heading, pitch angle, bank angle, etc. (which you fix when you press the trim button). But in-game, when you press the trim (no matter if click or hold) the first thing it does is un-fix your chosen direction. That's why I said I suspected that IRL the shark's trim would only un-fix things after a small delay if you keep holding the trim. Frederf put it with different words and in a much more technical way in post #29. I have no means of confirming this IRL, but I do know it would make perfect click trimming possible, without destabilization. This is why I, personally, don't think that destabilizing the shark by disabling autopilot channels (even if only one at a time) or even enabling Flight Director or holding the trim is the primary way of flying it...

You mean you fly exclusively in manual or only during the time you're holding the trim button?

The upsets in attitude in there in the real video, it's just comes with the system. The kamov is one of the few actual mil sim modules that ED managed to get to us consumers. If a critical system like autopilot behaviour during trimming wasn't accurate it wouldn't have been good enough for pilot training. With practice it's possible to be minimised. My guts agree with Frederf. When I think of this trimming bump and the required "lead-trimming" to counter it, I have a hard time believing the real helicopter was designed like that. In the video of the real heli, we can see some bumps sometimes when the pilot hits the trim, but after watching it again more carefully, I noticed that most of his trim presses have no bumps, so the bumps could have been from the pilot's stick movement... I don't know, it's hard to judge by the video alone, so I don't think the video is conclusive... But then we have ED's word saying that the system was tested by Kamov themselves for use in the real military simulator for training real pilots, and I have no reason to not believe ED. So I'm very confused. Is it possible that the version used by the real pilots is a bit different than the commercial version? My humble suspicion is that, in the real heli, there would be a slight delay between the press of the trim and the deactivation of the autopilot. This would allow perfect "tap-trimming" or "click-trimming" without any bumps. But how could I know...

Lol you guys... You even set the small FOV and the horizontal stripe in the lower part of the screen to simulate the camera in the cockpit! Lol