Havner

In Central Position Trimmer Mode this doesn't happen. The AP just assigns whatever it needs to assign, virtual controls get a new center and your physical are blocked until you recenter them. There is no delay in AP. The only delay is for you to regain control of the heli. How can those happen with Central Position Trimmer mode?

Not exactly, the original issue was about nose dive, so the stick is not in the central position (but deflected forward without the trimm). But with the central position trimmer mode it shouldn't move anyway when you click trimm.

I assumed in discussion that we know how to trimm properly so either we use central position trimmer mode or move the stick to the center within 0.5s :-) I'm trying to figure out how the AP behaves excluding person's mistakes in handling the stick. So the only explanation I got for non-FFB is 20% AP authority release on click trimm. I'd like to see a track with FFB stick.

In the previous post you said yourself that this is not possible because of the central position trimmer mode and that the nose dive is caused by the release of 20% AP authority (and I agree with those). But now you contradict yourself :smilewink:

The issue is that some of the people here claim that this nose-dive is a bug. I've said it's not (because of the explanation I gave in my post and yours here (they are the same). But some people claim it's still a bug because with FFB there is no dive. And indeed if that is the case that would be suspicious (I'd expect the dive to be there always). I'm just trying to understand. I know I had my own share of AP doubts back in the day.

Yes, I misread you the first time I read your post. I've corrected it since, sorry.

EDIT: Sorry sorcer3r I misunderstood you in previous version of this post. Ok, I will give it a shot at home. This would be the indication what is going on. Could someone with a FFB stick really post a track of the test I asked for earlier? I'd be really grateful I want to compare this with a non-FFB stick (e.g. for the virtual stick movement, does it differ depending on what joy you have connected).

This is completely not about that. See the previous posts where we were talking about AP. This got nothing to do with the centering but with the specific microsecond of what happens with the swashplates when you press/release the trimm having stick deflected from the center with and without FFB joy. And the bold sentence is wrong because there is a centering trimmer mode.

Any chance you could upload a track of the test? I'd like to compare all of this with a non-FFB track. This really looks like there is something wrong.

Yes. I know what FFB part in the joystick is doing. My question was about how the sim interprets the axes. Whether it's different then on non-FFB. So it has nothing to do with the FFB centering. (The only issue is the limp you described. One of two reasons. The other being AP disengages. Try to do a 180 degree turn without holding the trimmer. You'll see. Thanks. I know it's incorrect thing to do. I just want some confirmation whether it behaves differently than it does on non-FFB.

Could you please operate without the trimm and test what we are talking about? Stabilize forward flight (let's say 100km/h), move the stick forward without the trim to accelerate to 220km/h and then just press the trim. Will the heli dive?

I get what you are saying, I really do. And if the bold sentence was right it would make a lot of sense. But I'm not convinced it is actually right. The proof you give doesn't work. In the route mode the cyclic/collective doesn't move when AP is maneuvering. I just checked. The controls do move in Flaming Cliffs planes. From what I know it is completely the other way around. The cyclic and the swashplate are not the always corresponding. Check the image. Red is the cyclic position. Blue is swashplate. Image is not to scale. 1. You are in a stabilized forward flight properly trimmed. 2. You move the cyclic forward without the trimmer. The AP tries to compensate within its authority and moves the swashplate back to keep the trimmed attitude. 3. It reaches the saved attitude 4. You click trim and when the AP is disengaged the swashplate moves immediately to the stick position. Hence the dive. In general the trimmer does 2 things. It engages/disengages the AP and it releases the centering forces on the cyclic. Those 2 are completely independent. When you move the cyclic without the trimmer you are fighting with the cyclic centering springs, and the AP is fighting with your input. They are not the same thing.

They are advised to click it before moving the cyclic. Of course they are not advised to click after they move it. Which is what you're trying to do.

KA50 Target Designator "a bad JOKE" With this I agree. It's not about realism but the lack of FFB rudder on the market.

He is making only small corrections then. So it might be click trimm or for the pilot it's just an inverted click trimm. Pressed is a normal position. A click is a cycle of release and repress. Look at 3:00+ when he does serious heading changes. The sounds of trimm are the same and it has to be press trimm. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to change the heading so easily (i don't think the heading channel is off).

How can you know when he presses? We are only able to know when he releases. That's when the metallic sound is heard. A definitive video would have to show his thumb (or whole hand, depending on the version/prototype).

This video proves nothing to me. From what I can see and hear the guy is flying with the trimmer turned on most of the time. When you hear the click he is releasing the trimm and immediately repressing it again (to lower the "FFB" forces on his hand). The heli doesn't keep the attitude by itself most of the flight meaning the AP is disengaged. Which means he has to keep the trimm pressed when maneuvering. We'd have to see his hand to be sure. The sound is only on the trimm release. We have no idea when he actually presses it. I agree with you that it is possible to implement the trimmer the way you'd like it (heck, I'd like it as well). But for this to work the AP would need to be able to distinguish attitude changes caused by external forces (wind, turbulences) and internal ones (cyclic move). From what I know in the real Ka-50 the 20% of its correction is applied after the input from the cyclic, not before. Maybe in Ka-52 or some newer versions of Ka-50 (Turkish) it is smarter. The one we have in the sim is the 'dumb' version. And with this implementation it behaves properly.

Sorry, but this sentence means you really don't. You can't click trimm. The underlaying AP would have too little information to know your intentions (when to disengage). i seriously doubt that. Anything to back up your statement? You can click trimm with FD turned on. Then it behaves the same way as (probably) Mi-8. Dampeners on, but there is no full "keep attitude mode". In real heli it would only cause the stick to be recentered, wouldn't affect the AP (it is partially disengaged).

Yes, because you're not supposed to press a trimmer in a random moment. You press it only when the joystick is centered (or in a temporary center position with FFB/real heli) 1. On FFB joystick you got the same if you push the trimm when not in centered (current centered) position 2. Of course it doesn't happen when you hold the trimmer. That is the point! You disengage AP when trimm is held. And that's the way you're supposed to fly. Press the trimmer, move the stick, release the trimm. 3. I think Mi-8 only has dampeners, no full AP stabilization. So it can't duplicate this behaviour cause there is no hardware that causes it. Mi-8 behaves always as if the trimmer was held or Flight Director was turned on. This has been talked through multiple times on this forum. Please, understand how the AP works. It will make life easier for you.

This is not a bug. I've wondered multiple times whether the strength of this dive shouldn't be smaller (there are threads on this forum discussing it), but the dive itself is normal. If you steer without FD or trimmer pressed the AP fights with your input. Pressing trim during such a fight releases a correction AP made instantaneously causing a dive.

Turn on Easy Communication. It says that carrier is on 127.5 and then it works. So it has this communication set somewhere. It just doesn't work without Easy Comm while in theory it could.

Yeah. The ground crew worked after I landed. So this is a bug. With Easy communication (and FC planes that always have Easy Comm) it does work.

How can I talk to the carrier? What is the correct frequency? When I use Simple Communications it claims he has 127.5 and it works (inboud, etc). Without Simple Communications he doesn't respond. Nothing works, 127.5, 124.0. Nothing. Looks like a bug. Does it work for anybody? Thanks.

Can't help you with the original problem (probably the module is not yet prepared by ED), but the single download you probably got should work. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/video/fc3/f-15c/ Talking about this one. It is a part of a FC3_Video_EN module or whatever it is called and gets installed into Mods/Flaming Cliffs3/Missions/Training. Try installing it and then moving the training files from there to the F-15C mod directory.

How to delete any point from PVI-800 And that's the thing. What IS the correct procedure assuming it does even exist. Believe me, I tried everything I could come up with and nothing works. Is it even possible? I know about reordering, it does work and I use it. Zeroes are on the list of workarounds as well. I even thought that maybe you can delete a point by entering all the zeroes, but no, they stay there). So the question stands: How to delete a point (WPT, TP, FP, AP) in PVI-800?