LanceCriminal86

Yeah, and there are also photos from the first cruises showing fuel tanks and pylons that some said weren't used. A gent with VF-1 posted a whole ton of his personal photos from those first VF-1 and VF-2 cruises in the Tomcat Association's Facebook, for those in that group. Just search "1974" or "1975" and you should find them in batches. From his batches the VF-1 jets look to have the IRST, but for sure Bullet 205 from VF-2 is rocking just the ALQ-100. I'll need to look back and see if he had any 1974 pics.

There's a reason it was immediately disused, it was apparently garbage.

That's a whole separate thing from the early early jets, apparently stress or degradation of some kind was occurring with the original production design. Then partway through -75GR the revised "production" style was introduced that remained until the ALQ-126 came in with 161168 in like 1981 (same design also on the A+/B).

There's a reason I have the "rivet counter" title in my sig, all those things have long been documented and provided for bug workflows. We're just awaiting a determination of the level of effort to fix as some fixes apply to the A and B, some just the A, and then there are corrections and enhancements submitted but they may take a while to work through. Things like the nacelle panel lines being a little off, some differences in the actual panels and latches between the A and B, smaller vents and details between them as well. Some stuff can all be done in textures, roughmets, and normals while others require mesh changes. Filling and cutting in a NACA duct may be lower impact than the pylons, same with gun vents we are hoping will be on the earlier external model. Some were easy fixes where a UVW or part had the wrong texture assigned and should be coming down the pipe, really only an issue for those who did camo schemes and found small areas around the flap actuators that were using the opposite wing's texture. Or a flipped vertex or normals. Others, again the impact may be more widespread and require a lot of skins to be heavily reworked.

If the pylons were modeled and just sunk into the mesh, that would be one thing. But if the area where the pylons meet the airframe wasn't closed off so to speak, then "cutting" the pylons means you're going to leave open polys/faces, which will screw the UVW maps up, the ambient occlusion maps, normals, all that stuff when you have to shift around or add new vertices to close the hole up. Same deal with adding dynamic MODEX from what I've heard. Potentially the same even with the TCS pod as well but there appeared to be geometry underneath it. There's a point in the 80s where Tomcats on cruise appear to always have had tanks mounted, eventually it apparently was SOP. Ashore, RAG, demos, quals, etc. seems to be where you would see them without at various stages.

Hopefully the FH-1

Aware of that, and least likely thing to change. As a rivet counting painter it's something I can live with because I know how complex trying to remove/remodel the boat tail area would be, and then to try and link it to change when ALQ-126 are mounted. When I do older blocks I just remove the layers with the ALQ ochre stuff and paint TPS over it. Just that makes it a lot easier for the eyes to pass right over it. Bigger are the gun vents, which from what I hear will be tied to the "early" external model instead of something swapped via arguments. Again, something that requires actual mesh changes, really just covering up the NACA holes. A few have done the old vents in textures/normals/roughmets to be pretty damn convincing but up close it does look a tad funky. But it's easier potentially to add some geometry over than to remove/rework.

From what I've seen the aero cover was mostly used when ashore where they had the TCS housings available, but not the camera internals as there weren't enough to go around. Mainly RAG, Reserves, and then the squadrons coming off a cruise or doing workups. Then they'd exchange the actual TCS cameras and/or housings with the squadron coming off cruise as they went on cruise. Eventually there were enough TCS that even the reserves and much of the RAG had them. Basically late 70s-early 80s mostly ALQ-100 only > then either ALQ-100 or TCS > then TCS or TCS with bullet > and eventually mostly just TCS unless a RAG jet, reserves, or on the way to Davis-Monthan. Top Gun of course has all 3 setups shown since some was filmed on the Enterprise with VF-213 and VF-114, then you also had VF-51 and VF-111, and VF-1 with random VF-124 in the background. Some shots the "hero" jets had full TCS, others on the ship it was ALQ-100 only, and then also during TOPGUN school sequences you see the bullet housing. I can't remember if VF-114 and 213 were preparing to go on cruise or returning from one, same with 51/111. The Sidra jets were -95s, so no ALQ-126 jammers by the intakes/tail and ALQ-100 only. Basically what the Iranian jets would be, but with all the Navy systems still in there. Same jets as in Final Countdown actually. Photos from right after show the tank pylons mounted but apparently they may not have carried tanks on the flight.

If the TCS and ALQ-126 can both be converted to "pods" on both early/late A, it would be huge towards representing more eras.

Perhaps a name change to "Mid-Life" and "Late" F-14A would be clearer then. We discussed before that there are absolutely some features that were not retrofitted to previous blocks of jets, and very few of those jets without those features survived long enough to become a "Late" jet as presented now with LANTIRN, ALR-67, and forthcoming ALQ-126 (visually missing but "modeled" I believe). To my knowledge, only a specific list of jets break that rule with one extra that got the same treatment, anything that didn't went to the RAG and boneyard by '96-'98. If you take the existing A and roll the ALR-45 in, nix LANTIRN, and keep the ALQ-126 then you're still at an '81+ manufactured jet. It represents jets from "blocks" 110 at the end through 140 at the end of F-14A production. Throw on the old style vents and you have a representation for most Tomcats built from '81-'87 and as they stood until about 1992-1993 or so when gun vents were converted to the NACA duct style.

That site has a lot of missing info, Mike Crutch's CVW 1975-2015 book has a lot more information but he also didn't directly include the RAG or Evaluation squadrons, so sometimes you will see FITWING or VF-101/124 mentioned but often times you won't if the jet started out with one of those squadrons. The other thing is sometimes these dates come from the first record that a jet was shown on an inventory or roster, or seen in a photo with a certain MODEX. Only the actual production and delivery dates from Grumman straight would be able to tell you better what dates a jet was completed and delivered. -130s were hitting VF-31 and VF-11 through '84/'85 and even through '87. Some jets went to the RAG or non-fleet squadrons first, which is why the first dates you see are so much later. Perfect example, VF-31 got 161850 in July 1986, VF-11 got 161851 in '87, but suddenly you have 161853 that got to VF-11 in May of 1984. And the last of the -130s went to VF-11 in April 1985, so the dates need a bit more context. Similar story if you look at the -135s and -140s but it actually gets weirder. The first of the -135 went to VF-124 it looks like and didn't hit a fleet squadron until 1991, similar story for others of the block not seeing fleet squadrons until 1987? But then you look at the 140GRs, the last batch of As, and the first showed up at a fleet squadron in November 1986! Keep looking, and others were reaching fleet squadrons in Jun/July 1986, with the bulk of the production block through December 1986. Two more jets were delivered in January & February 1987. Then, the last 4 As were delivered to VF-201 and VF-202 by March and April of 1987. But wait, there's more! Sandwiched in there, somewhere from 83-84 and through 1987 and 1988, the remaining jets from production blocks 60 and 65, originally making up the test squadrons at Patuxent River, VX-4, PMTC, and the first jets at VF-124 to train VF-1/2, were all shipped back to Grumman for a complete rebuild. Those jets were rebuilt to -135 standards including the upgraded jamming equipment with new boat tail and work done to the airframes to "zero them out" so to speak. There's not a lot of good info when the jets actually got sent to get rebuilt because many were just sitting around unused, mothballed at Davis-Monthan, or cannibalized. So in-between the "actual" 135GRs being built, you also had a number being completely rebuilt I believe at St. Augustine or maybe even up at Calverton. All I know is that they were being ferried to VF-201 and VF-201 somewhere from '87-'88 or even '89. Bill Lindner shared a page of his logbook showing he delivered 162711 in April of 1987, and flew 158626 like a week later. VF-201 had enough of their jets by June 1987 to do a reserve exercise and carrier quals on Forrestal, while borrowing two of VF-202's jets. VF-202 didn't have enough jets by then apparently with theirs continuing to be delivered as they were rebuilt.

The 135GR is not a '70s jet at all, and in fact were the second to last batch of As built around 85. Visually and systems wise, you could stretch that back a bit further but even the end of 110GR you're still talking 1981 delivery. The 135GR tag was selected originally with an understanding that F-14As were upgraded over time, however what wasn't considered is that there were visual and system features that weren't added to earlier blocks. It was supposed to be representative of Tomcats from a certain timeframe, but some corrections have been pointed out for systems that shouldn't be on older jets. That said, the oldest jet you will expect to see is a -95GR, period. Whether the US configuration is directly represented is up in the air, as currently you can't just split off a sub-version without having it be a separate "module" of sorts it seems. What MAY happen, is instead of an "Early" 135GR, the model is adjusted to be more "modular" to allow for different system configurations in the loadout screen. If that does happen, you can switch between a -95 and onward jet up through a -140 by adding or removing the ALQ-126 jammers. While the "boat tail" would probably be a fixed thing, that's one of the main differences between them. That and the TCS, which again if selectable would mean you can set up all the way from the 70s-90s, and then from the 90s-00s on the "late" jet. But again, still up in the air. What definitely is NOT happening is a -75GR early jet, the original IRST, early beaver tails, glove vanes that actually change the flight model.

I've been digging on 113 in particular for a forum/discord member that wrenched on that jet in particular so it's been a longstanding project goal. It actually became the 101 jet I think for the final cruises. But, photos are few, not very clear, and vary when they were taken so there will probably be liberties there as well. Some shots have a blank canopy rail but a P/C, others I had partial names. With it being the high MODEX jet it would have been junior guys anyways. I was looking at 2000 on the Washington, as that's where I had some of the photos. Same design generally but with Golden Wrench on the tail but this may have only been workups/quals: Here closer with blank canopy rail: https://nara.getarchive.net/media/aboard-the-uss-george-washington-cvn-73-an-f-14b-tomcat-attached-to-the-jolly-80d695 In 2002 the photos for 113 were few and not really clear: https://nara.getarchive.net/media/us-navy-lt-cmdr-dennis-callahan-signals-an-f-14-d96c45?zoom=true https://nara.getarchive.net/media/a-us-navy-f-14-tomcat-aircraft-assigned-to-fighter-bd1e97?zoom=true I have a few more photos that were from FB groups, Flickr, etc. and weren't easy to find. Or in some cases were unlabeled and I happened to recognize the jet itself. I may have enough to do a plausible set of names for 113 on the 2002 cruise on the GW at least. 2000 would provide for a nice blank jet too. If someone's already done skins I try to work around that but there definitely are going to be instances where a skin might be done or redone and included with the module or if we can ever get skin packs. Like there's a VF-201 CAG jet that was added to the userfiles, and I wouldn't want them to get upset when mine's done. I probably should just send it out but I wanted to wait for the HGU-55 helmets and a few other fixes or options to come with the early jet if possible.

I'd intended to see about reworking the two existing VF-103 JR skins to the 2002 cruise, since the "last ride" timeframe falls outside of what we have and this one actually relates to a Supercarrier module. I've been targeting AA-113 to replace the current 103 line jet and was going to adjust 103 to reflect 2002.

I believe Mustang hung his spurs up a good while ago. With the constant changes ED were making to shaders it probably was just a lot to keep up with. At this point it would probably be best for someone to start over mostly fresh and try to work through and replicate some of the changes but off the latest versions of ED's shaders, at least those that can still be edited.

We still don't even have hints of a Korea map to go with the F-86 and MiG-15 and the most tree-heavy Marianas map is an FPS hog. I sincerely doubt we are seeing Vietnam within a decade.

The reality is the release date was actually 30 February.

Those are the ones I've been working on from VF-201, though most of theirs were rebuilt to the -135. They had a few other jets that came through which weren't and had differing blocks and condition it seems. 301 and 302 shut down somewhere around when VF-202 did and jets exchanged hands, with VF-201 retaining some of 202's better jets and the rest going off to VF-101, and eventually to the aforementioned A squadrons. Your mentioned 159025 is one that went from 302 to 202 but didn't last long apparently, struck in '94 soon after arriving at VF-202. Sadly the last two A models built went straight from VF-202 to VF-101, as did VF-201's remaining -140. Only one of those is left out behind Pensacola, in pretty terrible shape.

Yeah, I can't remember but I thought it may have been an aerodynamic thing? I'll have to dig again but it was something along those lines. While VF-201 and 202 got the rebuilt 60/65s, VF-301 and 302 basically got all of the old 70 and 75 jets from VF-1, VF-2, VF-14, and VF-32. 7-hole vents, the old beavertails, no alpha probes on the nose, no ALQ-126 additions. I think Danny Coreman's A/B/D book has examples of each beavertail from the prototypes, early production, the -75 change, and then the final with the ALQ jammer built in like our current model. If we get an older 80s jet the model may still have that beavertail but I've just altered the paint and normals to sort of cover it up. I can live with the beavertail being wrong if we can get removable ALQ-126 and the old gun vents. That's really the only thing stopping anyone from doing good 70s-90s jets. Then you can use the "late" jet after everyone got the upgraded vents by around what, '92 or '93? Granted the ALR-67 is too late for most As but visually and most systems you're good for a 90s jet through 1998. And for anyone in the Tomcat Association Facebook page, recently a photo of LANTIRN on the old TID was posted from the VF-103 testing in 1996. And a few VF-154 folks in As chipped in that they also had just the TID before PTIDs showed up somewhere around 1998. So ALR-67 aside, current A is pretty damn spot on for As between 96-98 before DFCS hit and PTIDs were rolled out more widely. And then ALR-67 somewhere between '98-2001 timeframe on those jets that were still in good condition. The 2001 training plan mentioned something like 60 A airframes were selected for that, which should have covered VF-14, 41, 154, and 211 who were the last A squadrons plus probably VF-101. Anyways, here's Wonderwall aka ND-110, BuNO 158997 on the cat in 1987 with VF-301.

Even better, on some jets the logo always faced forwards, others it was one forwards one backwards. Want to have your mind blown a little more? The clip where Iceman shuts down the right engine is a clip of the gun firing. That's gunsmoke and the nose of the jet.

They were the first production jets after the prototypes, -60 mostly went for suitability testing and many of the -65 jets made up VF-124's first jets to train VF-1 and VF-2 on. VF-1 and 2 each had one -65 jet, which later were replaced with "serial" production -70 or -75 jets. It looks like partway through -70 the stiffeners/fences changed, then later partway through -75 the boat-tail shape changed. Ultimately many of the 60/65 got the 135 full rebuild with new ALQ-126 jammers and everything but kept the old 7-hole vents until the 90s. Most of those jets ended up with VF-14, 41, 154, and 211 in combat over Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq with LANTIRN upgrades.

Look at the BuNOs of those first jets: Those were the -65 pre-production block jet 158627, and those didn't stay with VF-1 and VF-2 long. Basically, there's your answer. After that the factory standard applied scheme was the smaller anti-glare you see there. They likely re-did the paint to match the other jets for the cruise. VF-2 also had a -65 jet briefly as well. Oh, and that '73 timeframe is when they were still training up the squadron, we've seen a lot of instances on the early squadrons where things changed during the initial cross-train to Tomcats before their first cruise. 158627 later was rebuilt and went to VF-201, and when she was scrapped they kept the forward fuselage which is now on display in a museum.

I originally went with some close-ish patterning on the corrosion control, but some good references were provided so I did my best to get that a lot more close to the jet they used in those scenes. One thing I didn't do was making the funky nose MODEX numbers that looked like they were done with crayons, but I did my best to ensure the size and positioning matched the few photos that showed them. On Iceman's main jet they covered the 6 from the MODEX and added a 4, but they didn't rake the 4 like the other numbers. I may try to at least replicate that with some of the coverup paint behind it. Unofficially, I may revisit them and do a "final battle" set of them, add Hollywood and everyone with their different flight suits with TOPGUN patches, Cougar/Merlin and an alternate Maverick jet for the intro bit. But those would probably be on userfiles or some alternate download since space is already growing. I might sneak the camera jet in just for fun, it had its own unique weathering and corrosion control patterns, and it had a big VF-213 patch on the tail at some points. I believe you can see it in quite a few sequences. Sometimes it also had the fake VFA-213/25 marking, and then it also wore the fake VF-1/110 logo as well. And before it becomes a thing, the tail logos are an absolute pain to position, scale, and get right when crossing over the rudder panel. I've done my best to get the VF-1 logo as close as I can to 160665 from the available photos but it may not be *perfect*. If that's still an issue, I invite them to grab the template and do a perfect tail themselves, just make sure to rework the leading edge reinforcements and match the colors that were used.

Yes, neither of those were the 'right' one. I had one patterned off the main film jet for most of the flight scenes however that one did not get picked up. The new one will have a different 'name' so you will need to update any missions made with the Top Gun 114 skin. Apologies for the inconvenience, but the original ones here with the naming convention weren't made with the intent for release.

Unsure why the Top Gun livery even ended up in the B's folders, it shouldn't be there. Couple bumps on this livery push, we've been putting our heads together to help smooth that out and add a couple more checks to reduce the likelihood of it happening. Some of the issues have been due to simple things like different OSes messing with files when a livery was unzipped and re-zipped. As far as country locks and such with liveries, I'm not sure why that's desired here? It can be looked at but it's a US skin of a US jet. It makes sense that it should be available to the US and the Blue Coalition TF alignment, maybe USAF Aggressors. As to the A+/B and those skins, they'll come. The skins being worked and submitted have mostly been projects of passion by each artist, aside from the Forrestal release skins which were both passion and a desire to have some appropriate skins ready for her maiden DCS voyage. It just happens that the A model is where that passion has been, as it also has needed more work to bring some of the small details that differ from the B. There's still a ton of ground to cover on the A with squadrons that haven't been added yet, some of which has been waiting to see what the early model brings and the eventual pilot updates with the HGU-55. Another thing to consider is having skins be somewhat cohesive in a way for fleet squadrons instead of spread out over random years and air wings. A goal is to have skins better represent cruises, and perhaps adjust or replace some existing ones to match that. And while the late skins from the GWOT period are probably very popular to some, there's a lot of options that better fit the timespan and configuration of the jets we currently have from 1987 through the 1996-'98 range. And, just because there's a picture of a jet doesn't mean there's enough out there to do the detailed skins with names on the canopy and plane captains, custom weathering, all the stuff folks have come to expect. And the gorilla in the corner of hard drive space is ever more a concern, even with zipped default skins helping somewhat keep the sizes lower. Hopefully a better solution will come along to allow for skin packs to be provided to those that don't mind the drive space, while also helping out those that would rather have only barebones liveries instead.