LanceCriminal86

Thanks! We've got some good discussion going already on some solid USAF choices to start with, as well as some good ones for the foreign operators.

I think that's the perfect point to drop this again, some goofy Texas reserve outfit whooping up on F-15 pilots, in Phantoms: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/that-time-us-navy-f-4s-scored-plenty-of-kills-against-then-brand-new-usaf-f-15s-in-mock-air-combat/

I could understand this response if this was the first time its been asked, but Korea has been requested for years, same with Vietnam, and the MiG-15 and F-86 have been longstanding modules.

Rather they simply haven't said anything. And apparently since roadmaps are not a thing they are doing we have no idea if one is ever planned at this point. I don't know if this is a Field of Dreams scenario or the opposite. "Build it and they will come". One might say build a Vietnam map and the developers of VN aircraft will come. Alternately, some might say build the Vietnam aircraft and the map would come. But sadly I don't know if one can put any stock in either of those.

Why expect one when we have 2 existing Korea modules that have been around a long time, yet no Korea map?

But not the A, and the A+ skins need some reworks as well as the HGU-55. Which again will probably come after the external model is corrected, and the early jet models are worked out, and the new pilot bodies are implemented.

I'm well aware of the Trello, I've had some discussions on the topic already elsewhere. Sara isn't some insurmountable task he just wants to make sure it's up to the standards they expect. That said it would only be appropriate to have some VF-74 and VF-103 skins to go with her on launch, which will take us a little bit extra to get done, but right now after the F-4 hypetrain the Tomcat's model and textures are supposed to be getting some focus on fixes and prep for the early variants.

I mean folks said it would be similar to make removable tank pylons on the F-14 but the actual modeling side was not that simple. There appears to be more to it or someone would have just hopped into Substance, slapped a 60 on it, written Sara on the stern and sent it out.

Apparently the harder you look at them the more you realize they were more different than a 59 and 60 painted on the side. I can't remember if the differences are along the flight deck edges or on the island or what but if you're going for accuracy it is a decent bit more work. Then Ranger and Indy I think had slightly different deck and island again from the first 2. Kitty Hawk, Connie, and America are the same way, subtle differences in the islands and deck shape and the areas at the edges. Radar differences I picked up on as well. And then standing off to the side of that was Big John, whose layout is more like the Nimitz but a smidge shorter I think than the rest of her class. So weirdly the undersized existing Stennis is actually not awfully far off. But she did have the deck arrangement that the Nimitz class adopted.

Fine, we'll just call him "Hey A**hole"

The RF-4 throws a slight kink in things. I mean you can probably paint the E to have some fake camera windows but for a "default" or included livery I'm not sure RF-4s are going to fit. But I would love to have an AI RF-4 asset someday....

I just think it's wrong to name a backseater after pilots, and to have an AF Phantom WSO with a Navy name. Find some notable WSO names for the E, and notable RIOs for the Navy. OR Just name it VICTORY, and he's just disappointed in you the whole time.

This gentleman has an ABSURD amount of F-4 albums, it appears he was at Edwards from the 80s into the 90s. I think I've seen some of the above mentioned units in there. He has them grouped by different events and squadrons. https://www.flickr.com/photos/147861202@N07/albums Weapons School F-4s for example: 4th TFW album All kinds of goodies in there. And Tomcats, Navy F-4s, A-7Ds, Eagles, Warthogs, list goes on! I don't think we're going to get that, but I could see the existing Syria map having some Greek Phantom play, and Caucuses if you want to have them as an "allied" or peacekeeping faction. Same applies for the A-7E eventually. Maybe Greek Phantoms on Cyprus or something. There's been zero talk of new maps so I'd keep the expectations very low. But it's always good to have skins that are plausible for the maps we have.

What squadrons/wings would align with DCS maps we have so far? Were Es ever based in Guam? If a squadron had to be hustled over there any thoughts on likely candidates that would be deployed there during a crisis? Maybe a squadron out of Japan or Korea, Hawaii? Or just choose a CONUS squadron to ramp up? Also thinking Caucuses, squadrons based in NATO countries like Italy or Germany would probably make sense. Spangdenhelm, Rammstein, Aviano, something like that. Nevada may need to stand in for the Edwards commands, how about any Weapons Schools? Nevada ANG? I guess any USAF squadron would fit there, but maybe pick some that attended Red Flag or similar exercises further back. Syria, probably the same situation as Guam or Caucuses, either flying rreeeaallllyyyy long missions with tankers or forward based in Turkey or Israel if you're doing a Cold War type scenario. For modern obviously Turkey and Israel would already be covered. Persian Gulf, did the Air Force base out of Saudi or the region back to the 70s and 80s? And naturally Iranian IIAF and IRIAF would be a given there. Normandy or Channel are obviously way out of timeframe, but perhaps could still be somehow used for some Cold War stuff until something better comes along? I doubt any of the runways would even support an F-4E.

* Reserving for general requests, ideas, corrections, details * USAF Squadron requests - 523rd Fighter Squadron USAF Test/Demo/Commemorative - Final sendoff/demo jets of QF-4E Foreign Operator Squadrons Foreign Operator Special/Demo/Commemorative Special differences for foreign jets (that can be done in textures/normals)

*Reserving for Flight Gear/Helmets* USAF Helmets HGU-2 (single visor) - MBU-5 mask Squadron decoration/Painted Camo painted HGU-26 (Dual visor) - MBU-5 Painted/Stickers Camo Tape - MBU-12 (later)? HGU-55 (End of 80s, Desert Storm, Foreign users) - MBU-5 or MBU-12 ? Primary USAF Flight gear Foreign Operator helmets

Let's get this show on the road! This will be the centralized discussion for all things Livery for the upcoming F-4E. References, stories, photographs, videos, equipment, stencils, patches, all will be helpful towards continuing the tradition of sexy Heatblur skins. First, let's talk about priorities. As I see it, here's how I'd lay out important skins starting from Must Haves and Essential down to Eventually, and group them by the general periods laid out in the announcement: Pre-'74/Late Vietnam E Frontline Fighter Squadrons / Fighter Groups MiG Killers and other notable jets/crews (E crews please, let's hold off on the C/D requests) Squadrons operating in/around existing DCS maps Training squadrons Foreign operators (ideally aligned with the avionics/capabilities that reflect the export variant as best as possible) Special commemorative jets, McD factory paint, etc. Later 70s-80s E Jets/Squadrons from any Cold War incidents, peacekeeping, Desert Storm, etc. Squadrons operating in/near DCS maps Foreign operators (ideally aligned with the avionics/capabilities that reflect the export variant as best as possible) Training squadrons as applicable Special commemorative jets, Demo Team jets, fancy birds I am definitely not THE guy on Air Force jets, so I'm calling to all our AF Phantom folks to help fill in on Fighter Squadron, Wing, Group, etc. structures, training commands, weapons schools and the like to help guide this. Especially would like to find stencil and panel marking guides, maintenance notes or instructions, anything like that. For the USAF I see a few main paint schemes going off of photos and Cybermodeler: Southeast Asia and SEA "wraparound" Europe One And for the later E, the Hill One or modern tactical gray For the Foreign Operators, let's for now stick with "line" jets and leave the special commemorative stuff for later! Japan (F-4EJ stand-in) Greece Israel Republic of Korea Turkey Iran (Imperial and IRIAF) Germany (Stand-in for the F-4F and other upgrades/modernizations) And, if we can find a way to have the pilot and WSO hidden: QF-4E

Many squadrons continued with Cs and Ds through into the 80s, so it may not be a massive list. It looks like with the AF ones the paint was somewhat standard, with mainly tail codes and squadron/fighter group logos changing. It probably depends on how many squadrons operated the E over its lifespan, and during which timeframes. And within that trying to focus squadrons that were involved in any known operations, peace keeping, international exercises, or stationed near hotspots or regions of DCS maps. I may see if we can get a not really request but livery discussion going to start compiling stuff under those headings. Get the essentials sorted out, then the "would like to haves".

Seeing as they did move to F-4Es later in the war, it shouldn't be tough to try and include it. I'd expect like the F-14 HB would like to have at least an example or two from each squadron but the AF probably has a LOT more squadrons to contend with. I think right now the core focus will be representing the core jets from the eras being presented, so actual late VN squadrons and post-war years, and when the later one comes the "Euro One" schemes, perhaps the much later gray schemes, and at least some stand-in liveries representing the export Es like Japan, Korea, Greece, Israel, Turkey, Germany, and of course the Iranian ones. Probably will have some special or commemorative schemes in there as well like the 5000th Phantom and I guess #5057. There's already a growing list of knowledgeable folks and SMEs who can help flesh all that out, I'm used to the Tomcat and how the Navy does things so I need to figure out if the AF had their own training squadrons that would have E models so we can reflect how the Air Force operated, plus any fighter weapon schools or special commands.

Getting the rest of the Forrestal class done will probably be the death of Cobra, if he's able to do it. That said I have a personal hardon for the Kennedy, and it has Tomcat and Intruder tie-ins too. '89 Swordsmen shootdown, strikes after the Beirut bombing, Gulf War, and of course OEF/OIF involvement including VF-103's last Tomcat cruise in 2004.

I'll have to wait longer for the Phantom I desire, but this is the series, and video, that I used to check out from the library multiple times a year. The cheesy music still lives in my head, and despite the technical inaccuracies and recycled footage this will still be THE F-4 documentary to me. If HB doesn't do it I may just have to commission Meteor or someone similar to remaster all that glorious, cheesy synth and guitar backing track. I can't fly a Phantom without it.

Me, it can go to the folks painting F-4 liveries and counting rivets! I may or may not have helped facilitate photos of Col Olds' helmet from the USAF museum, which were kindly provided by Hoglan83 on Instagram. Granted I think he was only flying the Cs and/or Ds, but with that being such an iconic AF Phantom legend (like Top Gun is with the Tomcat), I didn't drag my feet.

Posting for VFlip

..... @VFlip Our friend here is mis-informed. Please, engage in dabbing upon him.

Already being done.