LanceCriminal86

I'm sure they will, but we also don't have the Nimitz which kind of sucks. Same problem for the Enterprise, Eisenhower, a new Vinson, and all the other conventional carriers we aren't getting. But the other problem is are we doing 1-2 skins for each squadron for each version of the jet? If we're talking official skins thats 2x of each for the old block Tomcat AND another for the 135 block Tomcat, multiply by how many squadrons operated in both eras and we're looking at a lot of skins, aka a lot of hard drive space. I have a feeling with the drive space concern HB is going to have to be strategic about how many official skins they include. The good thing though is we have a very active pile of solid folks making skins and quite detailed ones at that, so I don't think anyone is getting left out in the cold. Once some of us are done with the ones we personally want to do, naturally we'll probably start picking up on the ones that get requested here and elsewhere. And ultimately ones to go with the ships available in DCS for campaign usage.

Why do they have to be official skins? Heatblur isn't going to give you a 100% every MODEX every BuNO skin pack for one boat for one year (X6 if we are expecting each carrier and each of the 2 Tomcat wings to have full packages), I do not see that happening at all based on 1) how much disk space that will take up, and 2) the broad base of customers that would like to see the other squadrons that operated A and B models up through the late 90s. Maybe when dynamic MODEX comes online a generic line jet skin would happen sure but not to the rivets level of detail for each individual jet. Now, you almost certainly WILL see something like that from the community, because guys like me and Swordsman and Shmoo42 and others are planning exactly that. You also MIGHT see HB willing to have their campaigns optionally use those kinds of skin packs, but I have to refer back to point #1 about the size those skin packs will add to the drive size and that's not a solution all of their customer base will want. They're already stating that they are having to keep an eye on that and full MODEX/BuNO are not very likely due to size. But perhaps they'd provide alternative versions of some of their "official" campaigns for users to download that would take advantage of a community livery pack. That's also again dependant on what ships we get, because it's now sounding like there is uncertainty about whether Ranger and Independence are happening. I think we should have had the JFK instead if we were only getting one boat, but again that comes back to things like opinions and preferences, which everyone has. JFK was there for Sidra incident in '89, and for the Lebanon strikes after the Beruit bombings. Maybe JFK would be an option to go with the A-6E if they decide to do one boat, who knows. Even if we do get the whole Forrestal class we're still left with a swath of missing carriers, which is an issue in DCS not easily or quickly solved, just like the Flanker era assets that still make up a large portion of the non player assets and the FC3 quality REDFOR aircraft, and the lack of accurate contemporary adversaries for 1983 and 1987 era Tomcats like MiG-23s and Su-22s. Oh, and no Libya or proper Iraq map either, nor do we even have a Pacific map for the South China Seas or anywhere that the Pacific squadrons would fit in. And the ubiquitous VF-84 Jolly Rogers don't have the Nimitz, nor for the VF-41 Black Aces from the 1981 Sidra Incident. There's a ton of missing stuff and it's unlikely to happen this decade or at all. TLDR: This should just be a community skin pack because it can be done now without slowing down HB at all in their development, which means their skin and model guys can focus on fixing the existing issues with the A model and B model, updating the templates, skinning the Intruder and Forrestal. There's plenty of folks who'd totally do it even if we don't get the Ranger or Independance. And we can probably collectively do it faster than HB's guy can because again, single/limited resource who may not even be doing this full-time. The VF-154 skin may not have even been made by Heatblur...

Why does Santa Cat matter so much to be included as an official skins than filling out other historical squadrons who only have a single skin each? Was it even in the time period the Heatblur B model represents, aka before 1999? Honestly, stop pushing it. It's your prerogative to do so but there are a ton more deserving and missing skins that should be made official than yet ANOTHER Jolly Rogers skin where the B already has a few. There are a ton of A model skin possibilities, Viggens, and other actual B models that could be done to fill in some gaps. VF-24, VF-74, VF-211 don't even have a color jet of any kind, nor do we have a Sluggers CO/CAG jet.

Like I said, pick one of those skins and try to make it to the accuracy expected from Heatblur, and then remember that there's one, maaaybbe two guys making their skins. Track how many hours it takes you and then let some of us pick it apart for errors. Then multiply it by how many skins everyone is demanding be made available for the A and B. THEN go back and make all the changes every time a model correction is done where you spend hours re-exporting textures because a UVW map changed. I'm trying to put perspective on some of the tones in these thread because people do NOT understand how many hours and research go into making just one skin that meets Heatblur's requirements for inclusion. Yes, I agree it makes sense that some of our skins should match the Forrestal class boats. The people that REALLY care about it though are the kind that download skin packs and track BuNO and MODEX, like me. Everyone else just seems to want HiVis and CAG one of Christmas schemes who honestly don't care about it. It makes more sense to me that we wait and see what ships we ACTUALLY get, and then see what skins need to come along for them. There are a bunch of talented skinners working behind the scenes putting together entire cruise packs for the whole boat. But we are also missing half the aircraft that belong in the eras you are discussing, so shouldn't we focus on more recent packs until the A-6 and A-7 actually happen? And we are still missing an EA-6B, the S-3 is still a junk model, and so is the SH-60. I'm making VF-201 and 202 because most folks don't even know or care about the reserve squadrons and they were local to me. And I'm making them to the quality that I'd hope they could eventually be included. It takes a LOT of work to even get one jet right because photos have different color shifts coming from film, sometimes all you get is a far away shot, and almost never do you get a canopy rail with names and callsigns and the MODEX and know exactly what year it was. I had one jet that I thought maybe I could do and immediately had to tear down half of it and start over once HBs guy took a quick peek at some WIP shots. The skins will come. Let's see what jets and boats we ACTUALLY get first.

Sounds like more folks need to download the paint kit and buy a Photoshop CC subscription. There are a lot of demands and expectations for what HB and the skinning community are expected to do on their free time without understanding what goes into it.

You use the existing paint kit and make alterations for the A model, just like with the new A-10C II.

I'd rather have Jester work like a real human RIO than have glove vanes, cosmetic or not. I'd rather have TCS housings be swappable as an animation argument in the model than have glove vanes, for the A and B. I'd rather have a D model TCS housing added in for AI D model usage than have glove vanes. I'd rather have the USS Kennedy added than have Glove vanes. I'd rather the UVW mapping and model inacuracies be done instead of glove vanes. I could go on and on about things that would improve the Tomcat experience more from a functional perspective than adding non functional glove vanes. The late A model we have right now is supposed to be a contemporary to the 90s B models, at which point the vanes were permashut.

If we had the Kennedy we'd have great options since she was always on Med cruises, and for a long time with VF-14 and VF-32. VF-103's final cruise in B models was on her, and the reserve squadrons I'm working did carrier quals off of her. For Syria and Caucuses I'd really expect to see Atlantic squadrons only, especially ones that did Med cruises. PG would probably be East and West depending on choice of scenario. The Guam map will be where the Sundowners, Black Knights, etc. should really fit in. VF-51 as well I think. The skins are going to come, don't worry. Between the few that will come with the jet and the guys that are already furiously painting, you're going to see plenty of time specific packs as best as possible. The problem though is getting good enough reference photos for the time periods in question, because there are subtle stencil differences here and there which can be very tough to get right. Forrestal herself though had VF-11 and VF-31 flying A models in 1991 for a Med cruise, and all the way back through the 70s. In fact the 2 reserve squadrons has carquals off her along with the rest of the whole reserve wing in '87. So, historical 80s to 90s VF-11 and VF-31 are the pick for Forrestal. If we get the rest of the Forrestal class there's good options, but lacking the Constellation class, Kennedy, Enterprise Nimitz, Ike, and Vinson we're going to have most of our A model and even B model squadrons missing their rides.

The template technically can work with Gimp, the files are huge with a ton of layers and I know some folks have had to cut out portions of it to get it working. The DCS Livery Group Discord has plenty of Gimp users who could help.

@Shmoo42 is super far down the road on that exact timeframe jets from the Millenium cruise, nearly done in fact.

Expect to see them all within the coming month. The HB competition has folks in the Discord hopping on any squadron they can find right now. Hell at this point I just need to settle down and pick something and finish it. I'm trying to do Bio's VF-211 jet from 1996, all of VF-201 and VF-202, plus a few "fun" schemes that are all on pause. Whenever he's done and happy with it @_YaeSakura_ 's hi-vis template is going to be an awesome resource for the community. I'm working on some more stencil stuff based on some photos of the last 4 As delivered, who went to VF-201 and VF-202 straight from the Grumman factory. After I get all the stencils done I just need the model corrections to be made, the ALR-67 blisters to be added, and the bullet fairing for the TCS as all 4 appeared to be delivered that way.

So did anyone read the "Enter the -A thread" or any of the recent sticky discussion threads? Seems like the answer is no, because a lot of this was already answered.

It seems like the pitch and volume are too low. Looking at the SDEFs the pitch for the intake close sounds was down at like .47? The sound samples themselves were pretty good but it seems like the pitch is being made too low and they are too quiet. My ears should be bleeding in external view right in front of the jet!

Shame, I use them for AI only. I wonder if there are FC3 entries that are trying to overwrite the F-14A.

Nah, there are so many places it gets asked I lose track. I had an excuse to post anyways though as I've been going through making tweaks and corrections to the template to properly fit the A model. Lots of small things will change eventually but for now there's a few things to do to get the skins passable.

I'll eat some crow, looks like that is indeed correct. The F-14B Lantirn tests in 1996 timeframe were with PTID. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a309772.pdf I think unfortunately we are stuck on the PTID thing because as mentioned, nobody can seem to find documentation on all the menus that went along with it. Sounds like we'd have to find some avionics techs and RIOs with a photographic memory to get anywhere close to a real representation of the PTID and lantirn. But A models were used with the Lantirn as well, so that still leaves a question if the As received PTID or were still using the fishbowl. There is mention on Wiki that the B models that did the tests still had analog BUS, so perhaps some were running the LANTIRN without the PTID? "This effort was done under the auspices of Commander, Naval Air Forces Atlantic Fleet (COMNAVAIRLANT) using a fleet aircraft to integrate the digital 1553-based pod on an analog F-14B. In March 1995 a VF-103 fleet aircraft successfully dropped the first laser-guided training rounds (LGTR) and quickly laser-guided bombs (LGB). Due to the early success and interest from Fleet Commanders, NAVAIR began to procure pods and control units for deployment, resulting in VF-103 receiving the first LANTIRN pod June 14, 1996 in time for its upcoming deployment." Need to track the above comments down and see if VF-103s jets were running LANTIRN but no PTID I guess.

It's been asked everywhere, but AFAIK no for now. Most B skins can be moved over but you will have to make some tweaks if you know what to look for. FYI for those who want to skin the A, here are some things to look out for and future proof on: In the B model template, remove the two vents above the NAVY stencil, they're supposed to only be on one side and are not present on the A at all. On the A and B: Remove the NACA duct on the right engine nacelle, from the diffuse, roughmet, and the normal. That way whenever it gets fixed you have less work to do. Check your stencils. There are some subtle differences in stenciling between the A and Bs, and even within A model squadrons over the years they got further and further from the original Grumman stenciling. The intakes tend to be different, locations of some of the nose stencils, different BuNO fonts, different location for the fire punch-in panel on the engine nacelles, etc. [i highly recommend Bert Kinzey's two F-14 books in digital format, for Atlantic and Pacific squadrons, via Detail and Scale] For the As especially, look at the leading edges of the vertical stabilizers. @_YaeSakura_ has made some of his own masks that more accurately follow the reinforcements on the leading edges which should taper from the base to the top. Y'all really should go grab his high-vis and prototype skins, he's put a lot of work into them and will probably be re-doing them as the A model comes out and includes the older versions of the jet. Can't wait for the bullet fairing! Definitely need those for the 80s and various reserve jets from the 90s like the ones I'm trying to do. Here's a quick link to some screenships of the above: https://imgur.com/a/NF6LHce

It seems to be plenty accurate to the B models of the 90s. The upgrades you mentioned didn't really get going until into the 2000s from what I've read. Just because the first jet got tested with stuff like the digital bus and PTIDs in what 1997? doesn't mean the whole fleet of Bs had all that. The PTID, DFCS, new Lantirns, Sparrowhawk, all that jazz really happened in the 2003s where it has been beaten to death that HB has no access to documentation on those upgrades. Again, this is the exact same reason the D model isn't happening. We have the B model as adopted, the 3 portions of the B Upgrade programs don't have enough documentation (digital bus/PTID, GPS/INS upgrades, JDAM, DFCS). That's a 2003+ B model.

It is, it's supposed to be the 80s/90s variant that was contemporary with the B model we have. The Early A model would be earlier 80s and late 70s, where some had no TCS still, or bullet fairings, older RWR, no Lantirn. Both work great for me because the reserve squadrons I'm most interested in either had Block 140 jets, early jets rebuilt to Block 140, or early block jets that somehow made their way in as replacement jets. So having the old vents and stuff will be nice for properly representing them. What I was hoping for is that the TCS can just be a setting in the livery lua file, so we can mix and match some of the different configurations out there like upgraded jets that still had old vents, or the bullet fairing on the F-14B prototype, stuff like that. But I've no idea how HB intends to implement the A model visual model, separate shape file or just using one Tomcat model with lots of custom arguments, etc. May have to bribe them to sling the bullet fairing or a no-TCS no-ALQ100 version under the B model just for Prototype fun.

A has Lantirn, it's the older A that they're adding later that doesn't.

I feel like to get the full enjoyment from the Tomcat I need a proper floor mounted Virpil or VKB stick with the curved extensions, and some rudder pedals. I don't feel like regular joysticks even with curves can let you be as precise as the Tomcat seems to want to be a smooth stick. What setup are you using and how does it compare to the original?

It needs a rework, I never did post the one for LtJG Hudner but it's almost identical with the nose number from the famous painting. I did those, I also did a VF-31 Tomcatters of ENS Webber who had a MiG kill. I had an A-4E-C skin of one of the attack squadrons and briefly dabbled with a VA-35 one for the Hornet. Hell, even had the E-2D in dark blue for the EW squadron that was onboard flying the radar AD Skyraiders. A HDD death killed everything and I started over, with like I said just ENS Brown's jet. With the A coming out I'm getting back into skinning so maybe there will be a v 1.1 with better details and some additional cleanup work, LtJG Hudner's markings, etc. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3307191/

The best we can hope for is that maybe, just maybe, HB at least sneaks the -D TCS/IRST housing in as a model argument. At least then you can have an AI -D model or just pretend it's a D.

So the Sparrowhawk upgrade seems to have happened in parallel with the other -B upgrades such as PTID. First Sparrowhawk and updated VDI flew in 99 and process completed in 2003. So which Bs specifically did have the HUD and didn't get the rest of the -B Upgrade stuff? Got actual BuNOs and data on those or are we just guessing? Because the previous posts and discussions on the F-14B Upgrade programs, aka OFP 317, OFP 320, and OFP 321 seem to indicate that the BUS upgrades included the PTIDs on the first upgrade path (317) testing completed in 1997 and was then pushed to the fleet. Sparrowhawk apparently came from somewhere between 99-2003. And in there as well were the 320 and 321 that added GPS, updated the INS, and added JDAM. All those things are where the documentation is missing for the -B Upgrade, Same story for the -D, and why HB aren't doing the -B Upgrade at all at this point. It doesn't seem too much like you can cherry pick just the HUD but not have PTID and the other upgrades.

Do decades now end on the 00s? Was year 2000 not the beginning of a new decade, century, and millenia?