Rosebud47

Yes, congrats to you Stef! Don´t forget to buy a pair of Lighthouse boxes, if not included into the XTAL. Looking forward for your impressions with DCS - I´m sure you won´t regret :)

LoL... :) No, I didn´t mean it the way, that Rift user should not be supported by DCS. :) What I don´t understand is, why ASW 2.0 and its improvement need a special support by the application? I would expect ASW 2.0 to work with every VR application right away without the need of special implementation into each VR application separately. ... but I really don´t know, how it works in this regard, just wonder ...

Oh my god, today I need to work until midnight :) Actually I don´t understand, why ASW 2.0 need to be supported by DCS? SteamVR does provide this function already for some time, they name it smart smoothing. As well, Pimax with the newest Pitool beta version provides this function and name it as well smart smoothing. With both it works fine with DCS and it is sensable, that the headmovement had become more smooth and no tearing in the cockpit with smart smoothing activated. I don´t think, that smart smoothing will allow higher detail setting, but the experience while moving the head in VR is more improved.

You´re right, I think, refering the 11ms optimum frametime to 90Hz and 13.88ms to 72Hz... So far I always measured lower framtime for the CPU and higher framteime for the GPU in the same moment, of which I think it is better than the other way around, as the CPU don´t become a bottleneck due to deliver data to the GPU for finally render the image. Actually, that´s the reason, why I don´t overclock the CPU anymore, as I think the GPU is already at it´s limit at 80°C... maybe adjusting the fan speed could release a bit more freedom to the GPU. I´m a bit afraid of overheating or burning the chips. The CPU runs at 4.2Ghz on all 6 cores... maybe a benefit will be added, when Vulcan is implemented to DCS. Yeah, me too think running the Index at full potential 144MHz is very challenging for any system, but I´m also curious about the visual fidelity 144MHz could provide. I would say, that Valve does have good reasons to design their new HMD this way, at least it´ll surely provide potential for the future of VR techniques & visual quality for VR. BTW: "hyperpredicting" in my understanding is only marketing speech by Oculus, to make the people believe, they have invented some magic for their product. I don´t think, that there is any kind of prediction, but simply the copy of a former rendered image into the continuity of frames. The technique is the same with steamVR reprojection, maybe the algorythms differentiate and are improved by optimizied program codes with new updates for the function.

@witwas Oh, the 8k is additionally more demanding than the 5k+ of Pimax. I wouldn´t go for the 8k, especially with a 1080 GTX. Or let´s put it htis way, if the price for the second hand 8k would be in a range, in which you say "OK, let´s have a look on this device, but I´m not depending on it for my VR experience", then the 8k would be ok for me. But if you really want to use the 8k with a 1080 for DCS, then I would say: don´t buy it, as you won´t get happy with it for DCS, unless you´re running a RTX 2080Ti.

Hmm... this seeing double, when rolling the aircraft or manouvering, I couldn´t follow. Tried several times to follow the issue, but it´s not presence in the way it is described. There is double vision in the way of ghosting, which appears with objects, like other planes, buildings or let´s say 3 dimensional objects on the ground and it could be observed on the horizon line. I would say ghosting or double vision is an performance issue. I´m no expert, just a user, but so far I observed less ghosting, with less frametime. Reducing the frametime by optimizing the settings did help me for reducing ghosting. While there is a stable 36 FPS ( I run the Pimax at 72Hz panel frequency ) the frametime is still a variable. Frametime is the time the system ( more the GPU than CPU ) need to generate a new frame. While the CPU is much faster in framtetime than the GPU, the GPU becomes the limiting factor. Optimum frametime in VR is 11ms. So, when flying over a city at stable 36FPS there is Reprojection, which doubles a formerly rendered image to give the impression of smooth 72Hz, this works fine, let´s say over the see, where are no 3-D objects, which make you aware of seeing the same frame twice. But when flying close to a sykscraper or watching another plane or keeping the eye on the horizon line, you will see the doubled frame and it will stay longer to your awareness, the longer the time the GPU needs to generate the next real frame. I guess the effect is cumulative, as with reprojection, the next real frame will doubled as well and the effect of ghosting gets continously through observation. In addition to regular flight speed or let´s say, the speed needed for the GPU for creating real and reprojected frames ( after each real frame, the next frame is a copy of that real frame through reprojection ) to give a smooth impression of movement in VR, manouvering or rolling the aircraft increases the time a new frame is needed to give the impression of smooth movement in VR, as the images while rolling or manouvering changes completely every millisecond. As said, i´m no expert, it´s just my conclusion and I might be wrong, but to avoid this effect of double vision, I ´m pretty sure that it could be reduced - and that´s what I could have observed on my system - by reducing the frametime as close as possible to 11ms for the GPU. With the application "fpsVR" the framtime could be measured while sitting in the cockpit in DCS.

@Bob Oh wow, from 3.2 GHz to 4.9 GHz is really courageous. I´m currently at 4.2 GHZ, maybe the I7 5820k CPU could be oc´ed to 4.5 GHZ, but that would be for sure the end of the line. But I´m very happy with the plus on performance through overclocking. @witwas The Pimax could be also used without Lighthouses, but then there will be only 3DOF headmovement tracking instead of 6DOF roomscale tracking. 3DOF could work fine with DCS, you could move your head around and the movement will be translated into DCS by the internal gyroscope. With the lighthouse external sensors it´s different, much more natural experience. So, lighthouses are strongly recommended to enjoy VR. Running the Pimax with a 1080 might be not a big problem for other VR games or application than DCS. If you´re planning to upgrade the 1080 to a 2080/Ti you could get happy with the Pimax, but with the 1080 and Pimax, I would say, that you don´t get happy with this combination for DCS. The difference in pixelfilling rate between the 1080 and 2080 is not so much in FUllHD resolution - for sure the newer 2080 is better at respectively low resolution. But at high resolution beyond FullHD, the RTX cards release a lot more power in pixelfilling rate and the gap between GTX and RTX cards get wider, the higher the resolution is, the cards have to render. The Pimax native resolution is already very high compared to the other state of the art VR headsets. When adding supersampling to the Pimax the pixel filling rate is massive. To really enjoy DCS with the Pimax a RTX card might be more recommandable than a GTX card. Generally the Pimax offers a lot of options and adjustments, for instance you could set the FOV to 3 different states, or you could set the panels Hz as well to three different frequencies. It´s more a VR headset for enthusiasts for hardware and the opposite of kind of "Playbox" console stuff. The big advantage of the Pimax definitely is wide FOV and that´s in my eyes a big thing for VR. Me won´t get back ever to any VR headset with small or medium FOV. Just alone the impression you get in VR, when jumping from the BF 109 Cockpit into the F-14 Tomcat is undescribable... you do feel the dimensions of the airframe much better you´re sitting in with wide FOV in VR.

Please don´t get me wrong, here are more friendly people, who could differentiate, than in any other forum. But most complaints seem to be related to personal expectations, than on any other. FlightSims in common and DCS in particular is not a 3D-shooter, at least when it comes to performance. At the time of Falcon 4.0 and Pentium CPUs, software was always ahead of hardware capabilities. Virtual Reality brought us exactly back to this point, but some now complaining the delevopers or the hardware manufacturers so much for it, in a way of shitstorming, like meanwhile common practice in the internet. For VR it doesn´t make so much sense to hunt for FPS with current state of hardware. VR HMDs fix the FPS in anyway or ASW and Reprojection cut the FPS into half and fix the FPS. Anyways... personally I enjoy DCS very much. Performance and visual quality in VR gets better constantly due to developement. I wouldn´t like to ruin my hobby for me and others by always looking for complaints which neither really value nor make sense at all.

Didn´t played computer games for years, but virtual reality brought me back into electronic entertainment. Unfortunately nearly all of the VR games are kiddy stuff. Approx a year ago I discovered DCS, which is now the only thing I enjoy with growing enthusiasm, technically and with all DCS offers. Also played a lot of FlightSims back at a time, in which Nerds were truly intelligent people.

Just want to share some new findings to improve performance ( in VR ): It´s actually not a new finding to overclock the CPU, but I was really astonished of the effect in DCS with VR. Last time I´d overclocked a CPU was ten years ago - never felt the necessity to do so until now with the Pimax in DCS. Also with big thanks to "DCSHeliflieger" for this advice, I´ve set Windows to Ultimate Power setting, but can´t say now, of which the VR experience benfits more: overclocking or Windows Ultimate Power setting. Figures and impression. Got i7 5820K, MSI X99a SLI Plus Board and MSI 2080Ti. Before more overclocking, the CPU runs at 3.8GHZ at approx 55°C at a frametime of approx 17-18ms, the GPU runs at average 19ms frametime at approx 65°C. Found agood guide in the internet for overclocking and overclocked the CPU at a full moon night past midnight in presence of a toad to 4.2 GHz beside some Mainboard optimization of the RAM frequencies. Now the GPU runs at approx 80°C and 15-16ms frametime and the CPU at 60°C and 13-14ms frametime. Visually the ghosting is mostly gone, when watching the ground buildings in low level flight. Ghosting is there, when your in external view and surrounding the view very fast with the mouse with your jet or helicopter in center. But in the cockpit ghosting is much more less than before optimizing the system and overclocking the CPU. Also now there are no peaks in frametime. I guess the peaks in frametime accompanied by stutters in game resulted of respectively lower frequencies to RAM and CPU. Now DCS is really smooth and very fast experience in VR. The only thing left are some shimmering edges here and there. I guess with the coming update/ VR optimization for the maps, supersampling could be increased for better antialiasing in VR. It´s no secret, that DCS performance depends very much on the CPU, but the good performance improvement in VR by simply overclocking the CPU/ optimizing the system is astonishing.

The prefered settings are difficult to tell, respectively not to answer generally. At the moment I´m running with Pitool 0.5, SteamVr 150% and DCS PD 1.3 MSAAx2. Lefenuste and other prefer Pitool 2.0, SteamVR 20%, ... Try to find a setting, which suits best to your personal preferences on graphical fidelity and system performance. I believe, that PD setting and MSAA in DCS is most effective to improve the graphics, but also most demanding on performance. Pitool settings at 2.0 are also impressive in imrpoving the graphics, but also demanding. SteamVR settings are more finetuning, when youßve found a compromise between Pitool setting and DCS PD setting, in my opinion, maybe other see it not in the same opinion and are right... performance in DCS really depends on so many things, like mirrors in the cockpit, shadows, level of tree, etc. etc. What I observed so far form the comments on this topic is, that people with highly overclocked CPU, like approx 5 GHz, always could go far better with settings to improve the visual quality, while remaining stable performance. For measuring the performance I use fpsVR, which is very useful and could be downloaded from steam for a very small fee. With any setting in any case, I try to be below 20ms frametime, which gives me the feeling of a smooth experience in the cockpit in every situation. The funny thing is, that for me the settings are right while testing, when I can´t stop flying and enjoying the landscape, feeling of speed and enjoying the visuals in and outside the cockpit. When the settings don´t fit to me, I only stay a few moments i the cockpit and go on trying a lower setting on any of the set-screws. BTW: if you have managed to install the new Pitool Beta, there is a new Option to activate Pitool for Vive Games, I guess with this activated theBlu and Everest will run again on the Pimax.

Yeah, the Pimax Software still is in developement. With this new Pitool beta version, there is a file, named something like "steamvr_setup_exe" which is recognized by the Windows Defender as Virus or Trojan and not installed. But this file is needed, in order to SteamVR could recognize the Pimax HMD. Try to deactivate Windows Defender or AntiVirus Program and reinstall the new Pitool Beta, or put this file on a white list, so Windows Defender allows the installation. ... I´m not sure what the exact name of this file/ .exe was ....

I would expect the Reverb not more demanding than the Pimax, but surely more than Index, Odyssey, Vive Pro or others in the range of 1600 x 1440 resolution.

The through the lense pictures of the Reverb look breathtaking. At least those pictures are not so bad as an indicator.

I´m sure the XTAL will be the best VR Headset on the market in 2019. And also sure it will perfectly run with DCS via SteamVR. No doubts about this... but ... Money counts for everyone on earth and with this in mind, there should be taken some thoughts into consideration. The price tag 100% focuses on companies and business not consumer. Middle range companies or big companies may invest into this, cause they could get balance the VAT and push down the annual turnover by new investments. A high price tag could be appreciated for them for the accounting and if they got a business case for the VR headset. Daimler Chrysler or Audi might order some hundreds pieces of the XTAL to equip their branches and provide a nice High End VR gimmick for their customers and special car configuration VR software. Or maybe big architecture office, to provide a first look into their projects, before they get realized. VRgineers did not financed the XTAL by kickstarter, so they surely are deeply in red numbers, before one piece is sold and need to get out of the red numbers as quick as possible - I do hope their calculation works and they will develope a consumer version of the XTAL within next years, but first they need to get out of the debts, to be liquid to build up a mass production. Don´t expect wonders of the XTAL. No doubt it is the best you can afford today. Valve with Index started development some years ago, where a wide field of view and the resolution of the XTAL panels were not thinkable. The HP Reverb is a quick shot which simply follows the demand of the consumer market for high resolution and to be the flagship in the Microsoft windows mixed reality portfolio in 2019. The XTAL is very much comparable to the Pimax: same FOV, same resolution. I would bet, that with the next generation of VR headset, after Index and Reverb, we will see a significantly increase of the Field of View on all new VR devices, maybe next year, I don´t know, but currently the developement is kind of evolution of which the XTAL is most advanced today, but next year maybe standard in the consumer market. I think the lenses for the XTAL were the most expensive part in production ( the panels are pretty average, I guess ). Producing such customized high quality lenses is expensive. Maybe they used a special liquid glass material like borosilicate instead of silicon quartz. Then there surely will be a lot of waste products to get usable high quality lenses. The lenses of the XTAl must be really phenomenal quality at this price tag... "please God let them have success and make mass production, so I could buy it :)))" The Eyetracking for IPD adjustment is only a marketing selling point. It will only be used one time and in effect not better than the physical regulator of the first generation of VR headsets. Foveated rendering, I wouldn´t bet on this. Guess at a time, when foveated rendering would work as intended, there will be enough performance from the graphics adapter or better solution which make Foveated rendering obsolete, but you never know. At today there is not really a use case for Foveated rendering. With the Fixed Foveated rendering of the Pimax, I experienced massive issues on the image quality with DCS. Honestly, as good as the XTAL is, at this price tag, I would wait and buy any other VR headset to bypass the time until we get the advantages of the XTAL at affordable consumer price tags - I´m sure it won´t be long. Surely I´m eagerly awaiting your impressions of the XTAL, once you test it with DCS :)))

The Pimax got two microphones, which a pretty good in my opinion. I´m using stereo studio speaker and a powerful subwoofer. Voice Attack did grap external sounds and misinterpreted as voice commands. Sometimes the view suddenly switched into an external camera. Mostly I use voice attack for the comm-menu respectively F1 - F12 commands. By false voice recognition of the environmental sound, voice attack interpreted an external sound as "F2" and switched to the external camera suddenly. Solved it by giving voice attack a more phonetical complex input ("F second"), since then it didn´t switched to external camera by misinterpreted voice command. The position in the cockpit in VR could be easily adjusted: simply move your head a bit forward or up or backward than your usual position and press VR recenter, then lean back in your flying chair again into the regular position. Meanwhile I got used to adjust the position in the VR cockpit this way.

Ja, finde die F-14 auch einfach klasse. Je länger man sie fliegt, desto mehr Spaß macht sie.

Danke euch! Jetzt hat es geklappt mit DLC. Schon cool, dass die nicht geswitched werden, sondern gehalten, wenn man DLC fwd/aft gedrückt hält. Es lag wohl an den 7 Sekunden... bin jetzt mal weiter und früher in den Final, wie von Viper beschrieben... muss man sich etwas umgewöhnen von der MiG.

Vielen Dank schon mal. Habe mir das jetzt schon ein paar mal in der Außenperspektive angeguckt und dachte, dass der DLC nicht geht, wenn die Flaps schon etwas ausgefahren sind. Auch die DLC Anzeige im Cockpit springt nicht auf den Input an, wenn die Flaps nicht ganz oben sind. Hmm, hat vielleicht mit dem DLC Toggle Knopf zu tun. Auch merkwürdig, dass sich der DLC Toggle Knopf die Funktion mit den Countermeasures teilt. Wahrscheinlich habe ich bisher nur einen Schalter übersehen?

Mal eine Frage zur F-14 - habe zwar hier im Thread schon danach gesucht, aber nicht alle 170 Seiten durchgelesen. Was ist eigentlich Sinn und Zweck vom DLC? Also, wann setzt man DLC sinnvollerweise ein? Soweit ich Rakuzards Video verstanden habe, sollte DLC die Landung unterstützen, aber ich fliege meisten ohne DLC in den Final und setze dann die Klappen ein. Schon auf halber Stufe der Landeklappen funktioniert der DLC aber schon gar nicht mehr. Ist der DLC nur dafür gedacht, um sagen wir mal noch geschmeidger in den Final zu gleiten, bevor die Klappen zum Einsatz kommen oder hat er auch einen anderen Zweck?

Guess you´re running into this WindowsMixedReality Monitor Lock thing. Everytime you put on the Odyssey your monitor will be locked. There´s a proximity/light sensor inside the headsets between the lenses. In anyway the headset will display DCS, but if DCS is not the front window on your monitor and the mouse is not inside the DCS window, the input controls won´t work in VR. Unlock the windows mixed reality monitor lock by pressing the windows button + Z on the keyboard. Please google for the right combination according to the keyboard layout of your country. Put the DCS window in front by Alt + Tab and make sure the mouse is inside the DCS window, before the monitor gets locked again by the proximity/light sensor inside the headset. Don´t know if this short advice could help... it´s tricky. Why it loads mods with one and not another, I don´t know.

If you don´t hesitate to pay a little extra to get the devices into your country, there are some service provider in the U.S., who will buy in the U.S. and ship to you. Regular service charge is approx 50,- $ + shipping costs by UPS or FedEx. There will be also Import Tax in your country by customs. One I remember is Big Apple Buddy ( http://www.bigapplebuddy.com ), who sits in New York, which means, they will charge on top approx 10% VAT before export. Another one - don´t remember the company´s name - sits in California, which is tax free. Made with both good experience due to import to Germany.

Same here, the new Pitool delivers now a really smooth experience for the headmovement. Got the impression, that ghosting, when coming close to the ground, is also improved. Now, there only needs to be the VR optimizations for the maps, then there will be an overall smooth experience and ghosting hopefully eliminated, while having stable FPS. Funny thing is, that it seems, that smart smoothing didn´t work before recent update.

Vielen Dank für deine kompetenten Ausführungen, CHPL. Das erklärt natürlich vieles und hilft, in Zukunft noch schneller die richtigen Entscheidungen während des Fluges zu treffen.

... made the same experience in the first minutes with the Pimax and my glasses, then discovered, that I don´t need glasses at all with the Pimax.