Rosebud47

@DeltaMike You should really stop selling nonsense as advices to people, who are really looking for some support.

It´s a bit misleading to get to know how many VR players are in DCS World, I would say, as only a small percentage of games on Steam does provide VR support, beside the variety of HMDs on the market on top of Valves´s Index, as dburne said. Maybe we would get better statistics, if the amount of total VR headsets sold in 2021 could be compared to the amount of steering wheels for sim-racing or HOTAS in a close price range to VR headsets sold in 2021. I see VR headsets like other hardware equipment related to PC gaming. No one asks about the percentage of Yoke- users on Steam to get to the statement hardware Yokes are dead. The stuff is just there and could be used. If going by the feeling of my pants and from the people I´ve flown with in DCS, I would estimate the percentage of VR users in DCS around 20% - 25% with growing interest of DCS pilots who never used VR before.

While that is pretty cool hardware for a simpit, I would assume, that it does not transfer such cool into VR. In VR the simpit cockpit is in visual sense completely replaced by the excellent virtual cockpits. For my simpit I´m following a strategy, with which I could map most functions on to switches and dials of hardware accessory, like button boxes, HOTAS for sure, Thrustmaster MFDs. By that it makes the VR simpit compatible to different modules, as the mapped function, like landing gear or MFDs, to a hardware switch of a button box always is the same, but with the view to the virtual cockpit in VR it feels different and appropriate to that module currently flying. I´ve also got the FSSB R3 side mounted and the Thrustmaster F/A 18 Grip onto a mongoose2 base with 20cm extension center mounted in that same simpit. It´s not a perfect strategy, but the compromises makes it flexible once you got used to the button boxes and the overall impression is always dominated by the VR view.

Those blurring effects are strange, especially as they change by using RTSS. With OpenXR mod I´ve observed some blurry/ fuzzyness most pronounced on the end of text lines, like the briefing screens or main menu when moving the head. This fuzzyness/blurryness always goes vertically, not horizontally. Never had this effect with SteamVR for WMR before. I assume it has to do with that OpenXR is still a mod and not perfectly optimized as native integration into the DCS World render pipeline. With MSFS2020, which I don´t update anymore, but have a look into from time to time, I didn´t observed this effect so far. Yeah, there are really good guides here around, I´ve also gone through your guide for the 3090, which is really good and helpful for any GPU. There are also good guides on Youtube for DCS VR especially - I guess that´s no news for you :-). For supersampling I just wanted to make a point for using the regular slider in the particular VR software, which does the same effect as supersampling in DCS option menu but much better integrated into the VR process... probably more efficient. Yesterday I took a ride with the Apache over the Marianas, as DBurne was very impressed by this experience, but as I locked 45FPS throught the OXR Toolkit it was noticable less fluid ( constant small stutters! ) than with other modules on other maps. Apache over Marianas is kind of stress test for my setup, but in practice I don´t fly on the Marianas, so it´s fine for me. Edit: @dburne Apache over Mariana indeed is the most beautiful experience we get in DCS at the time :-).

@speed-of-heat, @TED not questioning your results and impression of limiting the FPS externally, but what I don´t understand is, how 45FPS fixed by reprojection could be better than 45FPS of GPU output fixed by Chill or an Nvidia overcklocking tool? With reprojection deactivated you won´t get the re-projected additional 45FPS of fake images to get the impression of 90Hz in VR and even more while the GPU is capable of more than 45FPS without reprojection, you don´t get more, because it´s limited externally. Now for some time I really asked myself, what I´ve missed by limiting the FPS by the GPU driver. Isn´t the function of limiting the GPU driver not meant to avoid unnecessary overheating of the GPU, like for older games like ´Counter Strike´where you could get easily 150FPS or more on 2D monitor screen, what is much more than counter strike needs to run smoothly. Or to free up some GPU cycling by limiting to let´s say 100FPS in ´Skyrim´ to have some headroom for other stuff going on on the GPU like TAA or Raytracing or such additional GPU processing? As we´re dealing in DCS VR anyways with only 45 or less real rendered FPS with reprojecting, shouldn´t this headroom for the GPU be there anyways? Measuring the advantage of limiting is also hard, as it is limited all the time. I mean we´re limited by the CPU in DCS, means the GPU can´t get to its potential unless the CPU couldn´t deliver data fast enough to make use of the GPU power. So far still the most effective way of squeezing out more performance in DCS is simply by overclocking the CPU. I´m sure we will have some good discussion here for VR, once Multithreading is implemented in DCS and we could reconfigure the settings to make use of that for better perfromance and visual quality VR, but so far I just don´t undertsand the advantage for VR by limiting the GPU output to 45FPS externally. Also would like to add an opinion on Supersampling in DCS. It´s just an opinion, nothing more... Well, I wouldn´t make use of the supersample option in DCS ingame configuration for VR, just because we´re supersampling anyways by the appropriate VR Tools, like the slider in SteamVR for OpenVR headsets ( Index, Vive, Pimax, etc. ), or the slider in OXR developer tool for WMR/OpenXR headsets ( HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey, etc.) or with Oculus Tool for Oculus headsets ( Rift, Quest, etc. ). I believe with the additional image processing by activating supersampling in DCS configuration menu, we don´t do any good for the whole process by adding an additional image processing to the whole process, which is not faster, than the process for the same effect in VR by the appropriate software ( SteamVR, OXR developer tool, Oculus tool ). ... just some theoretical thoughts, maybe in practice we won´t see so much of a difference by doing this or that. My personal doctrine for VR is, keeping the process as simple as possible otherwise it would drive me crazy .

so true ...

As far as I know, Antialiasing ( MSAA ) only smoothens the "stair step effect" of straight lines in the image, like the edges of a 3D object or the markings on the runways. I don´t know for sure about that, but I think Antialiasing only samples such straight lines and sharp edges up. For me MSAA 2x is a must in DCS, as it reduces a lot of shimmering effects in scenes at respectively low impact on performance. Whereas MSAA 2x is significantly in DCS, MSAA 4x does not appear to me like a next level up from MSAA 2x. Supersampling (SS) then samples the whole frame up including the textures, what is more taxing the performance, but surely result in an overall sharper and more detailed image with less "stair step effects" which might translate into shimmering edges in VR... but I might be wrong in my understanding. The ´Asynchroneous Time Warp´ is just how Oculus labeled the method of reprojection, when it first came out - it´s a quite genius technique to grant a smooth experience in VR, where such high FPS (90) and so much performance is needed for an enjoyable experience. After ´Asynchroneous Time Warp´, Oculus labeled their method to ´Asynchroneous Space Warp´ which added some techniques to it, to smooth the head movement beside the general movement in a scene. Valve´s / SteamVR´s pendant to that technique is labeled ´Asynchroneous Reprojection´, later Valve added ´Motion Smoothing´ as additional option in SteamVR to smoothen the head movement. I don´t know if it is meanwhile intergrated or still an option to add in SteamVR. Windows now seem to label their pendant of that technique ´Motion Reprojection´ for Windows Mixed Reality or was it ´Motion smoothing´? I´m already confused about those labels, but in general the base technique is all the same, but I assume each one developed their own algorithms for it.

You don´t get 50FPS with reprojection. Withou reprojection 45 or 50fps isn´t smooth at all.

That´s why locking to 45 in OXR Toolkit is the only option I use there. 45 is 45 to me. There is also no particular v-synch function in the VR headset. The synchronization is done by reprojection or not at all ( as long as there is not enough performance to maintain 90fps ). "non-deterministic latency" is a nice expression. I understand it to describe the situation with frames, we have without reprojection. It means it is not foreseeable for how long one frame is visible in a moment ( that moment is between 11ms and above ) or let´s put it in another way: how long one frame needs to be processed to render a scene. Reprojection makes the latency determenal as long as 45FPS could be maintained in every scene to render. I could reach that +/- 1 or 2 frames with a 3080Ti , well ... the Apache is tanking some more frames and the Marianas... uhhh? Don´t be angry with me, when making a little fun of that, but that´s, what Palmer Luckey told everyone, when Oculus first came up with Asynchroneous Time Warp ( reprojection ). The kids actually believed, that there is a magic software, which knows in which heading you turn your jet, before you know it by yourself

@DeltaMike it´s really interesting to have a talk and some thoughts on this and it does help understanding all this stuff better to find the right buttons to push for an optimized experience. But I understand the reprojection magic otherwise: If you running without reprojection at a target Hz of 90 and the system performance is noticable below 90fps, you would not perceive one same image twice, but one same image longer, while the movement in the scene goes on, which then is perceived as a stutter. Running precisely at 45 fps and showing each rendered image twice is exactly what reprojection does. Reprojection fixes the FPS to 45 or with OXR at 30 and 22,5. If you got 50FPS or 70FPS you´re not running reprojection and one and the same image stays longer the less fps the system performs. Longer means heavier stutters. The option for 60Hz mode is meant for VR video/film. Also have to correct some theorizing posted before. I don´t know, if reprojection also works in 60Hz mode, but the question is obsolete as 60Hz mode with reprojection can´t be by any means better than 90Hz mode with reprojection, which is why 60Hz mode only could be better without reprojection. In practice there is also no performance gain with 60Hz mode as we barely could get 60FPS without reprojection in DCS, only by reducing the resolution or dealing with scaling tools or other tricks like fixed foveated rendering, of which everyone has its downside in image quality again.

For god sake, I won´t touch my settings anymore! Resolution is at 100% and everything, which is important to me in flight and combat, is right on spot... well, under given circumstances of DCS performance ...

What holds me back running the G2 in 60Hz mode, might be that some long time ago I´ve tested the 60Hz mode with the Samsung Odyssey+ under SteamVR for WMR.. which was awful. But also yesterday I´ve switched the reprojection off in 90Hz mode and could only reach around 57fps with my system, so no overhead for 60hz mode without reprojection. So far the OpenXR mod with the usual setting with 90Hz mode and reprojection locked at 45Hz gives me the best VR experience ever had in DCS, such that I don´t want to touch those setting anymore .

@Baldrick33 my eyes are 48 years old and saw a lot of <profanity>, so maybe they are a little bit more worn out than the eyes of the younger fellows . I could totally follow up @edmuss prefering the 60Hz mode of the G2, without reprojection the 60Hz mode, while holding 60fps, should be a better image quality than 45Hz with 45fps through reprojection. The synchronization and the smoothness with it might be hard to distinguish between 60Hz/fps without reprojection and 45Hz/fps with reprojection. But I would consider it as a general fact, that 90Hz is better than 60Hz with regard to the perception of moving images the frequency makes the frames reach the eyes. But that´s theroetically- after all we´re dealing most of the time with performance issues, which forces to find alternatives from the optimum ( solid and constant 90Hz without reprojection ). @speed-of-heat the 60Hz mode of Windows Mixed Reality headsets is different from the reprojection modes. 60Hz need to be set up in windows -->windows mixed reality configuration. It lowers the LCD display frequency generally. I didn´t tried it yet, so I´m also uninformed by reality, but it would be interesting if OpenXR reprojection adopts to the 60Hz mode by adding only 1 fake image, when reprojection puts it in 30fps mode, while in windows mixed reality 90hz mode and reprojection puts the FPS to 30, two fake images should be added. This could be easily testet by just observing the FPS while in 60Hz WMR mode with reprojection, the fps should settle at 30. The perfomance gain the is 1/3 compared to 90Hz WMR mode. @Baldrick33 did some test flights with different modules on different maps and the break even when turning smooth movements into a stutterfest was always around 39 FPS ( @90Hz mode with reprojection locked at 45Hz ). I think SteamVR was more forgiving when dipping approx 5 fps below 45 withn reprojection.

It depends, I would say. Locking at 45Hz is the only function I use with the OXR Toolkit to prevent the reprojection from stepping down from 45 to 30 rendered images and adding 2 fake images at 30Hz instead of 1 fake image at 45Hz ... once I´ve tried, I got eye strain after half an hour of flying. The problem for me with 30Hz reprojection is, that it switches too quick, when the system dips only 1 or 2 frames below 45FPS ( which isn´t such noticable while being busy in the game ) it instantly reduces to 30Hz mode ( which is much more noticable ),even 43 or 44 FPS occasionally are still fine to fly. @Cythkato your way of setup is interesting by using fixed foveated rendering. I´va saw Youtube Videos for MSFS 2020, in which people always use fix foveated rendering to make MSFS2020 running smoothly. The performance gain by FFR must be massive. But I´m happy how good DCS is running with the OpenXR mod so far, even I have to dispense so much eye candy at the moment to get there. Coming back to 30Hz or less with reprojection, I assume it might translate much better to VR games like ´Beat Saber´ or VR stuff with much more less 3D geometrical- and texture detail than DCS got. In terms of details to render for VR DCS is massive ( MSFS 2020 even more massive ) ...

@Werewolf_fs totally agree with you! ... These deformities are also visible in some text lines ( luckily not so much on the MFDs in the cockpit ) - it´s quite a bit annoying. Let´s see if developers could fix it with newer OpenXR version implementations.

I´m not sure if the 60Hz mode should be considered as a general advise for setting up the HMD. Not arguing against individual perception and happyness, 60Hz aren´t better in terms of image quality compared to 90Hz or more. Setting to 60Hz is all about performance gain ( the graphic system has to render 30 frames with reprojection instead of 45 frames with reprojection for 90Hz HMDs ). Quality wise the higher Hz setting always results in a more solid and clear image quality. Like it could be seen on flat TVs or monitors. Modern flatscreens have meanwhile reached 200Hz or even 400Hz, or some VR headsets ( Valve Index or Pimax ) have got 120Hz- or 144Hz-modes, which results in noticable smoother and better image quality ( as long as the high frequency could be maintained by the VR headsets ) - I would say, how the image quality perceived with VR headset escalates the perception of higher frequencies. But there is also a human factor to it, like every individual is different, means the inertia of the eyes is different from person to person and with that, the sensitivity to notice the difference in frequency of moving images from screens. Meanwhile in my "feeling" some stutters in DCS VR, might not only result of synchronizing frames to frequency for the HMD, but also from CPU bottleneck or memory/ V-ram usage or thermal throtteling. Tried also OpenXR without Motion Reprojection, which results in even better image quality, but my system only could reach around 57 FPS, which is far off of 90FPS for a synchronized and smooth VR experience without reprojection in DCS at 90Hz HMD mode for me, so I´ll leave it at locked 45Hz with reprojection.

Just had a look and made a screenshot: It´s in German language, but what I´ve meant is the last row on the right side, where it says OpenXR-Laufzeitumgebung: Windows Mixed Reality. ( "Laufzeitumgebung" = runtime ) By clicking the large button below, which says "SteamVR als OpenXR-Laufzeitumgebung festlegen" you could switch between handling OpenXR by Windows Mixed Reality ( included in Windows ) or SteamVR. The line above says, which runtime is activated ( Windows Mixed Reality in this picture ). I don´t know, if it may cause issues with the OpenXR mod if not set to Windows Mixed Reality, but people who have problems running the OpenXR mod, might have a look into this setting, which might could prevent SteamVR or SteamVR for Windows Mixed Reality from loading, when running the Mod. ... I don´t fiddle around anymore, as I´m happy that everything is running nicely on my end at the moment. Edit: the purpose of this function obviously is, making OpenXR Apps and Games to run under SteamVR, in particular Valve Index user could run OpenXR games with the Index, if set the the OpenXR runtime to SteamVR insetad of Windows Mixed Reality ... well, that´s at least, what I think this function does...

@DeltaMike Yeah, still got Steam and SteamVR installed, but don´t use it anymore since the OpenXR mod is running. Just remembered there is this checkbox in STV and thought it is worth to mention, as it might cause issues, if not deactivated. I´ve prevented Steam/SteamVR from loading automatically with windows, so I didn´t see Steam aynmore since OpenXR mod.

beside setting texture quality to medium and ground texture to low, I´ve also set shadows to off/none ( outside and inside cockpit ) and MSAA 2x. Also setting the cockpit mirrors to off helps to increase performance with modules, which does have mirrors in the cockpit.

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but isn´t there a checkbox within steamVR configuration, which selects if SteamVR handles OpenXR Application in first place ( instead of OpenXR dev. tool. ). Just typing of my memory, as I remember there is a checkbox like this within SteamVR ( or SteamVR for WMR ).

Last thing I've done to get solid 45FPS and a absolutely clear image without artefacts or any shimmering is, dialing the texture quality in DCS down to medium and the ground textures to low. Mainly settings are at 100% OXRDT and MSAA 2x Motion smoothing activated and locked 45Hz in OXR Toolkit. With these settings there are no general stutters, maybe random stutters from loading textures now and then, but not noticable all the time, even when looking left or right out of the cockpit. Setting down the texture quality in DCS also makes the Hind flyable again with solid 45fps everywhere. The Apache now is the only module which dips down occasionally below 45fps, but above 40fps, what keeps the Apache flyable and not turning it into a stutter fest. Another thing I've noticed due to the reduction of texture quality is, that after doing some TestFlights with different modules on different maps and then returning to the DCS main menu it takes a long time until the FPS got refreshed back to 90fps in the main menu at high texture settings. Now with medium texture and low ground texture, the refresh in the main menu to 90 fps is always instantly, as it should be. So my conclusion is, that the texture setting in DCS does have a notcable impact on performance ( probably better handling in some texture cache or maybe V-Ram usage of the Graphics adapter... can't say...don´t know ... just observing the effects ) The downside of reducing the texture quality is, that the buildings an hangars on the map now lost some life like quality looking,... just lacking of quality textures, but that's the trade off - the cockpits and external models of the modules as well the targets, like tanks, SAM, etc. don't have a lack of quality as far as I could say from some flying. It's up to each one, what is more preferable in VR. For me with a 3080Ti running it is at the moment more preferable a clear, crisp, shimmering-free and flawless image at solid 45FPS as an optimum for reprojection locked at 45Hz and an absolutely stutter-free and smooth experience on 95% every module and scenario.

Sounds like a conspiracy of DCS flat World believers is going on

Did you experienced the same stutterfest with the Apache or Hind as me? Well, I could only observe and make some guessing ... The OpenXR Toolkit is still in beta, I think, so maybe we´ll see some improvements on this with some ongoing releases of the Toolkit. If you´re refering with 60Hz to 60Hz mode in Windows Mixed Reality settings, it is meant to set up the headset for VR movies/films. The 90Hz mode should be preferable for VR games, afaik.

Ah, I see. If then, I would limit the GPU to at least 90 FPS or above for VR, but it couldn´t reach it anyway in DCS. That´s true, that the little downsides don´t get noticable within the forward visible arc. I have to say, that never experienced such smooth flying in DCS before OpenXR at 45 reprojection. @speed-of-heat understood. I guess generally limiting the GPU applies more for 3d shooter on the monitor. Now I understand, what you were posting before.

What does RTSS do and where could I find this setting? I´m actually considering to check FixedFoveated Rendering to fre up some more FPS to keep up with 45FPS at every scenery. Damn, looks like getting down in that rabbit hole again ...