mazex

Thanks a lot for the feedback Thomasew! Don't have a version 1 grip so I just took a stab in the dark ;) Updated the original post with new versions.

I don't think that version 2 was "official" until version 3 was presented as V3 ;) I guess that when they started doing the CM2 grip that has the Alps Hats (with push) they realized that they might as well put them in the Throttle too. Seems like they started doing that in the batches this year-ish (?)... I have a version 2 and the "plate" just says "MODEL: VPC MoongoosT-50Ⓡ Throttle", at the other hand the plate on my CM2 grip plainly says "VPC MoongooT-50 CM" - and not CM2. It really gets a bit confusing as the stick and the throttle has the same name as well... There are obviously some CM2 grips that don't have the same reinforced trigger that I have... Guess it's like the ME 109 G versions during the war, there where so many sub versions and field mods that the K was mainly a standardization ;) Even though the plate said G6 the factory in Regensburg did them one way in january 1944 due to what they had in stock... A lot more interesting for us customers that get updates at least and not like the Warthog that has stayed the same for 10 years. Not that I am too happy that got my version 2 some days before V3 was announced ;)

EDIT 2019-05-12: New versions of all templates based on feedback from Thomasew - and added area for "Function Description" on hats - like "Sensor Control" so that "FWD", "AFT" on the directions make sense... EDIT 2019-10-05: Reorganized so that all the latest versions are in this top post. EDIT 2021-10-08: Google migrated the old sites so had to update the links... EDIT 2025-05-07: Added new templates for Throttle V2. Both with and without the red hood... Note: To get the setup in my F18 template below working for the V2 throttle you need to do some configuration changes in the Virpil Software decribed in my "configuration manual" here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242447 I just got my VPC T-50 Throttle version 2 - and I love it When starting all these complex mappings of buttons for different sims / planes I really like to have them on a layout map that I can save and update when I change them. And then print to have on the desktop. I could not find any templates for the T-50 throttle V2 or the T-50 CM2 Grip. The original ones where in PDF from the manual - and I want to be able to edit the document and then save it... I edited the original VPC PDF:s for v1 with LibreOffice Draw (free open source office solution). The throttle was more "editable" but I realized that I really did a complete refresh of the whole template as there where things with the layout that I did not like... So for anyone that likes to have a file to save and print with the layouts - here are my templates in .odg format (Open Office Draw). Just download Libre Office and edit away with the "Draw" application. I did four versions (Throttle V1 and V2, grip original and CM2) Links below: Throttle maps: Layout map for T-50 Throttle version 1 (non clickable hats) - old version of the template: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WOMB2WtZ_httj93j9jJHP1QSRpD6pkgQ/view?usp=drive_web Layout map for T-50 Throttle version 2 (clickable hats): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JNw642dOXQCAf-aKHZgla2PDLsfw2jFs/view?usp=sharing Without the red hood (making the T1 switch a normal switch like T4, T5 and T6 with shift modes added) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SpOgxwW1I6mvdL5gD97eRn2XLSq-pymg/view?usp=sharing Layout map for T-50CM Throttle version 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VqBI3UB86U0n7ar-3xq0Ln4145tpC6Ur/view?usp=drive_web Joystick Maps: Layout map for T-50 Grip CM2 (clickable hats): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K1_zuPrLjKPw8wmC0q7vQ_NFo4AXx2ru/view?usp=drive_web Layout map for original T-50 Grip (non clickable hats) - old template: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oBQYWGyX1ATvNMeCd750Ul32G3uSDhEs/view?usp=drive_web You might need the font Bahnschrift that I don't know if it comes with Windows / Libreoffice or similar: https://www.cufonfonts.com/font/bahnschrift NOTE: For the Throttle maps the numbers on the maps for the buttons that have names on the actual unit are the ones displayed next to the text field. For the other buttons it is the "Windows name" of the button that is displayed in the small white boxes with red text (not the Virpil physical ID of the button). For the sticks all the numbers are the "windows numbers". That is the number that will show up in the DCS config for example as "Button 25" when you click some joystick button - thought that would be good to be able to see if the map is correct... Screenshots (low res): Throttle v3: Throttle v2 (the one without the red hood, there is a version with it also above): Throttle v1 (old template): Grip T-50 CM2: Original T-50 Grip:

This thread should be deleted as I posted an updated one. Can't figure out how to do it though... https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3908036#post3908036

Awesome - really looking forward to it, even though I just got my new gear!

Lovely. Just received my version 2 a couple of days ago... Sigh. And this has added the only thing lacking that I was looking for (the analogue stick that I have to continue using my old G13 for).

Thanks, and looking forward to your video! I think that the whole YouTuber thingy with people doing semi professional videos with hardware reviews has a negative back side of the coin. When someone just shares a shaky video with their fellow nerd friends there is pressure to have mounted cameras in focus and nice editing - or people will whine about the quality of the video. So people don't do it as they don't know how to do video editing etc. I don't care if there is a lack of focus or a handheld camera, someone with a thick accent or whatever. I just want to see some of the nice gear in their real environment, by someone who actually flies DCS or IL2... Edit: I spent hours trying to find a video of someone having both a T50 base and a WarBRD base side by side - showing the difference in "throw" and tension etc. Maybe showing how a T50 base without an extension performs compared to a WarBRD with the same grip. And then how they compare with different extension lengths (where the WarBRD should not perform so well). Could not find that anywhere - some posts about it - but not in detail. ... One comment I can add to my own "review" is that I was surprised how much the non extended CM2 grip with WarBRD feels like an extended joystick for me that has never had an extension. It really feels like a rather long stick where you don't just tilt your wrist like a "normal" joystick. It feels like a real control stick from an aircraft and I really don't feel like I need an extension right now...

Lol - I ordered mine on the 20:th, it shipped on the 1:st of May and arrived today (Sweden). So they take their time - but they are consistent :) Mine in "waiting for wife mode" - have unpacked it now... %5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/7Rk0LTU.jpg[/img]

Just got my Virpil CM2 stick, T50 throttle, Warbrd gimbal and deskmounts v2 (S). I am in heaven after sticking with my G940 for 10 years :) But - before buying it - I did not find that many videos showing closeups of the new Virpil Moongoos CM2 joystick. I was a bit concerned about the new switches with rumors about most of them beeing "gated" etc. So I did a cheesy blurry "holding camera in my hand" video of it. No ambitions of becoming a Youtuber - this is just info :) And yes - I say CM2 Throttle in the beginning but I naturally mean CM2 grip / stick... Overall verdict - Awesome! And listening to the video I realize that I say "nice" 50 times or similar. Was a bit over the top with exitement I guess ;)

I heard from an old Draken pilot that the J 35 Draken was actually faster with external fuel tanks. Unexpected aerodynamic effect but therefore they almost always hade them on...

Agreed - 100%. When I first read some post way back when about DCS announcing a Persian gulf map this was naturally the map I expected. Zillions of real world historical scenarios and missions that can be created from 1980 up to today involving most of our aircraft modules. - Number of actual combat sorties (AA or AG) where rounds, missiles or bombs where fired at the enemy that has taken place on the current straight of Hormuz map? A couple? - Number on this map? Tens of thousands... Or maybe hundreds of thousands starting with the Iran Iraq war in 1980 and including both aircraft and helicopters. Sure - the straight of Hormuz would have been a really nice expansion for this map with interesting fictional scenarios vs Iran and a few minor IRL "skirmishes" ;)

@Ranma13 - thank you for a very comprehensive "state of the FFB union". Unfortunately I have to agree with you, and thats why I finally gave up and went for the Virpil...

So I just got the confirmation that my Virpil T-50 Throttle and CM2 Grip has shipped... Nice! I was looking around the user files but did not find any profiles for them for the F-18. The CM2 grip is new but I was hoping that a bunch of the F-18 jocks out there have the T-50 Throttle at least for inspiration and a quick start :) Anyone that has a nice profile to share? I found this template that I plan to use to get it documented in the end: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b3kg4isdha8f0is/MongoosT-50%20Throttle%20Button%20Template.pdf?dl=0

Well, not for the western allies at least accept the very last week or two of the war where they reached Lubeck. To get acutal airbases for US/UK etc it would need to expanded a bit south, but still for the last month of the war. For USSR they where advancing along the baltic coast line in the map - so from march 1945 they would also have bases that are in the eastern part of the map. So for the final week of the war there are possible allied bases for both east and west :) Look at the map below: http://www.emersonkent.com/map_archive/europe_1944_5.htm Interesting to see the western advance the very last two weeks of the war, and the resulting cold war "frontline" from that. For a late war western allies WWII map the area around Belgium / Netherlands would be better (and the reason someone selected that for a Bodenplatte scenario). But that map would not be as interesting for a cold war "frontline" engagement. To get that in play for cold war the Soviet Union would have already "won" Germany to get USSR bases in that area. For Cold war the "classic" candidate is naturally the "Fulda Gap" - but not interesting for WWII and no water for carriers etc. without including a big chunk of central Europe. So therefore my candidate remains what I proposed above that actually works for both. If possible as DCS maps are not necessarily "square", the costline area of the German North Sea and Netherlands could be included for WWII. But to get to US/UK bases that where used for more than weeks we would need to get down to the Belgian coast. Tell me a plane in our set that has not spent time in the air above the southen baltic map IRL? The upcoming Chinese naturally (yet ;)), but the others have been flying there. And most have actually at some time been based at airports in the map area as there are a number of NATO bases in the western part of the map. And sure Knock-Knock, it is a flat area, but an intersting non linear coastline with islands, many different countries etc. Not just a straight coastline like Normandy. So from that perspective it will be much more "interesting" from the air than Normandy I think. The area with a cold war coloring. Where else do we get that many countries, actual permanent bases for Nato / WP / Neutral + quite a lot of water for Carriers and naval based missions? And no major cities with landmarks and stuff? Thinking of it - as it mostly just adds a lot of water. We could expand the "box" west all the way to UK and include a bunch of 8:th AAF bomber / FTG bases (and Cold war bomber / attack bases) for the ones that like long missions... And yes, I did go a bit more south with this so Hamburg gets included as well with some more work naturally. But for both Cold War and WWII that really would be nice to have as well. And for Carrier OPs it makes more sense to keep the carriers a bit further from the European coast line any way... Map of 8:th AAF bases in 1944: http://www.303rdbg.com/h-england-map.html They fortunately where in just that "corner" of England that is perfect to reduce the amount of "unnecessary" land mass to model :) And with this we manage to squeeze in the Lakenheath airbase on the map which soon is going to be the only USAF base in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Lakenheath We also gets some air bases for the Netherlands like Leeuwarden Air Base without getting the populated areas in scope :) And still - the only major cities on this map are Hamburg and Copenhagen. Smaller towns otherwise that don't require modelling of landmarks. Do a fairly simple wall around the old town Lubeck, add the Laboe tower and locks in Kiel etc. Not "that" hard. And "real bases" for almost of our planes in the set. Both WWII and Cold war.

Wonderful - exactly what I was thinking of :) Too bad windows 10 don't like it!

I agree. I don't have the F-14 but I have seen videos of it and it seems like a great idea. Communications in VR really are lacking and it's not intuitive for 2D either. A lot of other games made by studios with hundreds of employees have gone with radial, context based comm menus the last years. And it works there as well. For VR it is even more needed as we don't want to map 12 buttons for comms.

Might be a typo in this post, do you mean that Forcefeel is NOT better now? Just ordered one and interested in knowing if the DSC support works now? Well, as I ordered today I guess it will take a few months before I get it, even if the web page says I ordered on for the May 2019 batch ;)

No, I don't think so either. What I actually regret is not having dived down into this sub forum before. I have been popping by the main DCS forum a couple of times per month for almost ten years now. I thought the vibration seats where for car racing and only based on filtering the sound. With the Simshaker software you can do the "good stuff" and tweak it just the way I want to. Sure - the Forcefeel support is very new and will mature with the help of all the enthusiasts here!

This sub-forum has cost me EUR 1400 this week... * First a Virpil Hotas set after reading in the threads here 7 days ago... * Then a VKB T-Rudder set (have a swiveling office chair) 4 days ago... * And finally after this thread a Forcefeel ordered just now (as Andre seems in short supply). Not that Forcefeel shipping seems reliable ;) :)

Damnit - another thing on the "nice to have list" that has moved dangerously close to the purchase level :) The problem for me having a home office for gaming that normal days is supposed to look like an office (according to my wife). So strapping a buttkicker to my rolling office chair is not an ideal solution. I guess I will need to look into the vibration seat solutions that I now noticed that there are many threads about here. EDIT: Why did I not realize that there where vibration mats that are integrated with flight sims before? This sub forum is full of them... And that fulfills my stall buffetting demand and more immersion stuff. Only problem is that we are obviously dependent on two small eastern European "indie companies" with supply problems, just like we are in the joystick domain :)

Mmm - you are right about that. If messing around with the radar it would be hard to get any feedback on changes done if it stops sweeping, the range is not changed or you move the TDC and lock it and then fire a missilie while paused... But like you all mention, good stuff for tutorial videos. I think that changing the simulation speed to 1:64 as mentioned by Exorcet is what I am looking for, when starting the generator there it will take 64 times longer for it to spin up. I am fine with that, and that the TDC moves 64 times slower over the MFD etc. But great for finding the nose wheel floodlight switch while taxiing without getting rammed by your wingman ;)

Nice! Will see if I can manage to copy that. But it would be nice to get it built into the stick from the factory!

I don't know if you have tried it, the problem is that it really does not feel useful if the rest of the world continues at full speed while only your aircraft pauses. Kind of a reverse Matrix effect, Keanu would not last long with that one ;) The only thing that I would see it useful for is active pausing while landing or similar to change ILS settings. While taking off it certainly does not help as explained in my initial post ;) And while engaging the enemy it feels like suicide using it... Having quite a few IRL hours myself I don't put goggles on my head that move my hand while trying to adjust the frequency knob (referring to the rather awkward problem trying to mouse click a button in VR where you need to keep your head or mouse still and click a tiny spot). And IRL I find the gear or flap lever in 0.3 seconds without looking. I press a button in 0.4 seconds - and don't miss it once... Just like the ones on our Hotas (this naturally is harder in VR than IRL as you don't see your hand but muscle memory is impressive and works fine). But even a Virpil T-50 throttle has only a few percent of the buttons on the left side of an A-10C. So when we suddenly need to look down to start the emergency APU with VR click it takes ages. For fun while driving earlier today I realized that my BMW has more buttons, levers and knobs than my Virpil Hotas ;) For us that still are learning it really helps if there is a possibility to read the text under the buttons and think for a while which one is which as well :) And in VR it simply is an unrealistic time to push 5-6 buttons that might be needed in the last part of the attack run when it takes 5 times longer in VR than IRL. Mid mission is OK. So, if I can just find out a way to toggle between 1:10 and 1:1 speed in one press for the whole world I'm fine. Don't need a complete freeze. And if there is no way to do it I think that would be a good feature for us greenhorns to not loose interest in these complex beasts and go back to IL2 instead, where the Hotas buttons are enough for all core functions.

Awesome, did not know that. Thanks a lot... Then it would be great with a shortcut toggle between 1/64 time and 1:1 if they can't do active pause :) In 1/64 time I'm sure I will be able to find those pesky buttons trying to keep my VR head steady to not move the mouse pointer ;)

Finally leaving my trusty G940 behind for a full Virpil set as I have given up hope that there will be any serious FFB sticks on the market again. Even if that FF patent is now gone that some mean was the problem, it is simply too expensive / complicated to do it. The lovely small Eastern Block guys are great at mechanics, but doing FF is another level of complexity... Having FF motors / magnets to simulate stick forces must be a royal pain to implement, especially with no FF deadzone in the middle etc. So, now I sit here and think back of the good things about FF and what I really will miss. Before my G940 I used a MSFFB 2 so long time since I flew non FF. Naturally it's for the prop planes where the FF will be missed most, really nice to feel the speed with the increasing resistance in the stick like in a real small plane (I fly gliders and single engine IRL). And the stall buffeting naturally. And the slight vibration when you fire your guns that adds a lot of immersion. Then I realized that the stall buffeting is really the main thing I will miss as that really helps you flying the plane "hard", the other effects are just for immersion. You are down low turning hard in your Me 109 and that slight shudder in the stick is what makes you ease the pressure a bit. And that is really easy to add to a Virpil stick etc. vith a "vibrator". So just add a vibrator like in a Console controller to the Virpil or VKB sticks and the main thing I will miss from my FF days is gone. Really easy to do and we could have stall buffeting and vibrations when you fire your gun. Would easily pay quite a bit more for a Virpil or VKS grip with a "vibrator" like that. And engineered in a couple of days...