Starting the 'Stang

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

What is it with this engine? It catches, but won't start, then when it decides to start, it starts immediately and smoothly?????

What is the secret to successfully starting this thing every time? Even when it sounds like it is catching it won't start. Throttle position seems almost irrelevant too.

Best regards,

Tango.

your not alone :)

What is the secret to successfully starting this thing every time? Even when it sounds like it is catching it won't start. Throttle position seems almost irrelevant too.

If it was modelled perfectly, almost every start would require several tries. Post a track please.

If it was modelled perfectly, almost every start would require several tries.

Understood, but as it is, it seems random only about when it starts, and not based on what the pilot is doing (so much) e.g. when fuel is introduced seems to make no difference, throttle position seems to make no difference (it is equally hard whether it is 5% open or 20%).

It's frustrating to say the least.

Best regards,

Tango.

Please see attached. Lots to see.

Best regards,

Tango.

server-20130322-051024.part1.rar

server-20130322-051024.part2.rar

server-20130322-051024.part3.rar

server-20130322-051024.part4.rar

Hi Tango, I have 99% success startingt the engine every time from cold start, make sure you keep the primer pressed for long enough, around 5 seconds. I will watch the track you attached later.

I did start to get good starts frequently after I held the primer for about 5 sec. too (you can see that later in the track).

You can also see the issues I had with ground handling. I'm the P-51 starting at the back corner behind the other P-51 and A-10.

Best regards,

Tango.

I just started flying the Mustang yesterday. One thing that helped me was looking at the carburetor temp before starting. The colder it is, the longer you have to prime for.

Speaking of which, can I use the oil dilute switch to help in cold temps?

What works for me every time from cold:

- Fuel shutoff valve open

- Fuel boost pump on

- Mags on

- Mixture off

- Crank engine

- While cranking, hold primer until engine catches

- While still cranking, open mixture to run.

You need to use the starter key command (or joystick button), but it works every time for me.

Starting a hot engine, that's a black art I've yet to figure out...

Speaking of which, can I use the oil dilute switch to help in cold temps?

Yes, below a certain temperature this becomes absolutely crucial or the starter motor wont be able to crank the engine fast enough due to the high viscosity of the oil.

On the contrary, this is probably one of the easiest aircraft to start. Here's a quickstart I just did, sort of speed-ran through it. But basically what I do is:

1. Battery and Generator ON
   
2. Flaps Lever UP
   
3. Ram Air
   
4. Prop Full RPM
   
5. Throttle Cracked 1/2 Inch
   
6. Fuel Valve ON
   
7. Fuel Pump ON (Verify Pressure)
   
8. Prime 5 Seconds
   
9. Engage Starter
   
10. Count 3 Blades Then Mags to Both
    
11. As Soon As Engine Kicks Over, Mixture to RUN
    

It cranks over for me every time, and I'm usually idling in less than 45 seconds from cold. Track attached.

Mustang Quickstart.trk

Am I the only one that thinks that the P-51 is too easy to start up? Compared to the A2A P-51D or the A2A Spitfire in FSX, you can hardly do anything wrong with the Startup of the P-51 in DCS World and you really have to do a lot of things wrong to kill the engine.

In the A2A Spitfire you can have a very hard time getting the engine up and running in cold conditions and you really really have to take care of the Temperatures and the runup phase. You also can clearly hear how the engine behaves, especially when it´s cold, when it´s missfiring or when it´s going to die slowly (low compression on single cylinders). Also when starting it cold and cranking up the throttle you can clearly see that it´s burning oil like hell. Nothing of that is what I have in the DCS Mustang. I fire it up, taxi to the runway and take off to have a nice flight without any fear that something dies (at least not when you´re not a "set everything to 100%" kind of guy).

What´s very good modelled is the noise when slipping the Aircraft, when it starts to "sing". But I really hoped that the Engine was modelled close to what we get from A2A in FSX. Unfortunately it´s not. But then you have weapons... still... it makes me sad a little bit. Apart from the engine modelling it´s really fun to fly of course.

In the A2A Spitfire you can have a very hard time getting the engine up and running in cold conditions and you really really have to take care of the Temperatures and the runup phase. You also can clearly hear how the engine behaves, especially when it´s cold, when it´s missfiring or when it´s going to die slowly (low compression on single cylinders). Also when starting it cold and cranking up the throttle you can clearly see that it´s burning oil like hell. Nothing of that is what I have in the DCS Mustang. I fire it up, taxi to the runway and take off to have a nice flight without any fear that something dies (at least not when you´re not a "set everything to 100%" kind of guy).

If I recall correctly A2A Spitfires are MK.I and MK.II. They (and their carburetors) are kinda ancient when compared to P51D. It would be more sense to compare DCS P51 to A2A P51, and according to videos on youtube A2A P51 startup seems easy too.

P.S. I remember comments about P51 tested by germans. 2 things were highlighted: high speed and easy startup in cold weather.

I wasn't priming long enough. Starts every time for me now. 8)

Best regards,

Tango.

If I recall correctly A2A Spitfires are MK.I and MK.II. They (and their carburetors) are kinda ancient when compared to P51D. It would be more sense to compare DCS P51 to A2A P51, and according to videos on youtube A2A P51 startup seems easy too.

 

P.S. I remember comments about P51 tested by germans. 2 things were highlighted: high speed and easy startup in cold weather.

I must admit that I never started up a Merlin engine on my own. And maybe A2A are doing it wrong, who knows. I just created a "Mission" with -10°C today and the Mustang started just like it does with 30°C outside Temperature. And after startup it just runs smooth rightaway. Yes, Oil Pressure is higher than with 30° outside temperature, which is well modelled. But for me it´s all just to easy and too smooth.

I know I might get beat to death when saying something bad about a DCS plane here, but given the normal retail price it costs and comparing it to how much work they had to put in the Systems of the KA-50 and A-10, I find it a bit strange that not the same amount of energy has been put into the engine modelling which, to me, seems to be the heart of the P-51D Simulation.

Again, this is all IMHO and I could be wrong. I just hoped that the engine of the Mustang will be a bit of a challenge to handle, since apart from that it´s a pretty simple plane (because of the Era I mean, they did not have TGPs and Computers back then of course :D ).

Thanks Blaze, just purchased the P51 and was having trouble starting the engine. After following your checklist it starts most every time now :thumbup: I can also taxi around fairly successfully now even if I can't see whats in front of this tail dragger

I just have to master the take off and landings now :joystick: ...50% of the time on take off, I get to about 10/20ft off the runway, then the plane pulls to the left (despite rudder adjustment and stick pulled to the right), it inverts, then nose dives to the ground! I suspect my throttle setting may be wrong? I am not sure weather I should be giviing it the gun or holding back more... I try to keep the manifold pressure between 40-50... is that to much on take off? Perhaps its just a matter of getting the right feel for what is right.

Great plane though, really nice to fly this P51 sim... I can appreciate the work thats gone into making this work. Great job, thanks guys.

IJammer

On the contrary, this is probably one of the easiest aircraft to start. Here's a quickstart I just did, sort of speed-ran through it. But basically what I do is:

 

1. Battery and Generator ON
   
2. Flaps Lever UP
   
3. Ram Air
   
4. Prop Full RPM
   
5. Throttle Cracked 1/2 Inch
   
6. Fuel Valve ON
   
7. Fuel Pump ON (Verify Pressure)
   
8. Prime 5 Seconds
   
9. Engage Starter
   
10. I Count 3 Blades Then Mags to Both
    
11. As Soon As Engine Kicks Over, Mixture to RUN
    

It cranks over for me every time, and I'm usually idling in less than 45 seconds from cold. Track attached.

Thank you very much Yo-Yo for your response (it was a small eye opener for me, so a bit of text will follow here). I appreciate that very much. Maybe my comparison to the A2A Aircraft was not fair, since they do not have to care for a lot of other things which are important to an Aircraft released for DCS World (everything combat related).

I´m pretty new to DCS and for each Aircraft I used the first time (A-10C, later the KA-50 and now the P-51D) my approach to learn how it works is a step by step process. I learn the startup, takeoff and landings, navigation, emergency situations and then learn the (combat) systems.

So the first days for me in a new DCS Aircraft are like flying a civilian Aircraft and when you focus on that (before you start to do what DCS World is built for), it´s tempting to compare the Aircraft with things you know (like FSX Aircraft) already. This is where I entered this discussion with my remarks on the Engine Management and the behaviour for example in cold starts. And the P-51D is the only Aircraft where I felt it lacks behind something I know already (I have the Iris A-10A, but the DCS one is far superiour to that one and I have a few FSX Helos, but nothing which comes close to the KA-50 in terms of systems modelling and I do not include the Combat systems in my comparisons!).

Today I did my first Bombing runs, used the Rockets and attacked ground targets today the first time in the P-51D and I had a blast. You then quickly forget things which might be better modeled in the A2A Aircraft and the P-51D in DCS is a blast to fly when used for combat. I´m sure I will have many hours of fun with it. Still, there might be things which could be improved (as with everything in live, it never stops) but for what it is built for it´s doing it fantastic and I enjoy it very much :pilotfly:

Just in case there´s some time in the future to improve something existing (I know there isn´t, looking at the production lineup which was announced), don´t forget the P-51D and it´s engine. Other Piston Aircraft released in the future might benefit from that (or the P-51D from piston engine aircrafts released in the future, who knows)?

I did not say that we never return to the planes we already released. It's only a matter of time and workload. But even now the Pony will surprise you with some unexpected things.

Oh, I did not want to let my post sound like it´s an abandoned plane! It´s good to hear that maybe when time is found some things might get even better.

One thing which I really want to mention which blew me away is the sound of the air (turbulence) made when you slip the plane or when you maneuver hard. Then it really starts to whistle. I watched a Track of my Ground attacks and it´s amazing how it sounds when you dive down to the target, pull back and then it whistles and roares back into the sky (when that ZSU did not hit you). Imagine someone with CA sitting on the ground hearing that, might get some goose bumps :)

@SiThSpAwN: Haha, great to hear that :-) Looking forward to when that Merlin engine is burning more oil than fuel when you really messed up some time in the future.

I think it´s time for me to stop the off topic here and start finding all the surprises of the Mustang Yo-Yo mentioned. I´m sure I will not be disappointed. :pilotfly:

Thank you very much Yo-Yo for your response (it was a small eye opener for me, so a bit of text will follow here). I appreciate that very much. Maybe my comparison to the A2A Aircraft was not fair, since they do not have to care for a lot of other things which are important to an Aircraft released for DCS World (everything combat related).

 

I´m pretty new to DCS and for each Aircraft I used the first time (A-10C, later the KA-50 and now the P-51D) my approach to learn how it works is a step by step process. I learn the startup, takeoff and landings, navigation, emergency situations and then learn the (combat) systems.

 

So the first days for me in a new DCS Aircraft are like flying a civilian Aircraft and when you focus on that (before you start to do what DCS World is built for), it´s tempting to compare the Aircraft with things you know (like FSX Aircraft) already. This is where I entered this discussion with my remarks on the Engine Management and the behaviour for example in cold starts. And the P-51D is the only Aircraft where I felt it lacks behind something I know already (I have the Iris A-10A, but the DCS one is far superiour to that one and I have a few FSX Helos, but nothing which comes close to the KA-50 in terms of systems modelling and I do not include the Combat systems in my comparisons!).

 

Today I did my first Bombing runs, used the Rockets and attacked ground targets today the first time in the P-51D and I had a blast. You then quickly forget things which might be better modeled in the A2A Aircraft and the P-51D in DCS is a blast to fly when used for combat. I´m sure I will have many hours of fun with it. Still, there might be things which could be improved (as with everything in live, it never stops) but for what it is built for it´s doing it fantastic and I enjoy it very much :pilotfly:

 

Just in case there´s some time in the future to improve something existing (I know there isn´t, looking at the production lineup which was announced), don´t forget the P-51D and it´s engine. Other Piston Aircraft released in the future might benefit from that (or the P-51D from piston engine aircrafts released in the future, who knows)?

You happened to be thinking the EXACT same thing as myself. Very well put. And thank you Yo-Yo for the response as well. I do wish they had the time to model the cold starts more, since that has always been something I really enjoy about sims. I like the challenge of starting up the planes, otherwise I'd just start them all on the runway.