Spitfire combat manuvers

Well ,

Any one can point me the besr way to handel aur combat ageinst bf109 or FW?

The sight is so hard to make reflaction shout and the nose to big.

1. Don't climb after them. They will outclimb you and will bleed your energy, then they roll, or loop over and drop on you

2. Dont' dive after them. They out-dive you and then they level off and climb back and bleed your energy (see above for inevitable outcome)

3. Don't chase them in level flight, they will out-pace you (see above)

4. Don't bother trying to sneak up on them (sound RADAR), they will hear you coming and then either climb up an dover or half roll and dive (go to step 2)

5. DO turn with them if they give you the chance . . which they might do now and then. But you'll most likely black out.

6. Do fly with a couple of others, preferably P51 pilots. Let the P51s do the climbing, level chasing and diving. Juist sit around trying to look pretty and hope one of the enemies are silly enugh to presewnt their aircraft in front of you at some point.

7. DO watch furballs from afar and then try to nip and-and-out when a 190 or 109 is busy chasing someone else about.. maybe you'll catch him with his pants down. HOWEVER don't leave it too long, because you will run out of fuel before the fight gets slow-and-slow enough for you to effect this.

8. Wait for the Spitfire 14.

Sound like unusfall aircraft

It is very usefull when a pony is in a turnfight with a 109/190 or when you have an advantage over them or even when you have the same speed and altitude. The plane itself is useful, now it's up to the pilot to get the full potential out of it

Sound like unusfall aircraft

"unusfall"?

Do you mean "useless"?

If so. Well, it wasn't (isn't) useless. In fact it was very, very useful in 1943. It was also more useful in May-July 1944 with 25lb boost available.

In the combat environment it's a matter of comparison against the aircraft (and pilot, yes) it is competing.

Even the Sopwith Camel is "useful" in this context, after all, the Camel can out-turn the 109 too right? A good pilot could beat the 109 with a sopwith camel.

We can always do sight-seeing and aerobatics flights... lol.

Philstyle is probably dissapointed that the Spitfire is not performing at the level of the 109, which is why his post is not that constructive, especially as he is pretty succesful with the Spit against 109Ks in DCS, as his videos will attest.

I will say that the Spitfire IX performs EXACTLY as expected from what is modeled in the game. Be aware that the 109K is a superior machine to the Spit IX in nearly every respect. It has more power, accelerates better, climbs faster and has better top speed. It is after all a late war model that is facing a mid war Spitfire. However that doesn't mean that it can't be beat.

As Phil said for one thing the Spit turns, much better than the 109. It is the better defensive fighter and as such if you are aware of the 109 and are adept at energy management there will be no way that he can touch you. You can slowly climb while avoiding his Zooms, trying to get to supercharger altitude and higher. Once there the fight will be on more equal terms. Of course if the 109 decides to run, there is very little that you can do. Forcing him to RUN is a victory in my book! But if you are patient you will be able to get there eventually and score some kills. For one thing even the best pilots make mistakes and the Spitfire is the most forgiving of planes in that regard.

This is my opinion though, Im sure many don't share it, but I really, really love the Spitfire IX. I too thought it sucked horribly when it first came out, now it is the plane I feel the safest in. Sure it's slow as molasses compared to the other warbirds, but it packs a punch, and with its awesome turn rate it feels invulnerable if you have good situational awareness.

Philstyle is probably dissapointed that the Spitfire is not performing at the level of the 109.

Absolutely not "disappointed". Despite being generally quite dull, Phil is at least smarter than that.

Phil knows that this is a spitfire IX, (and it's not even the 25lb variety) which is an inferior aircraft in terms of airspeed, climb AND dive rate to the 109K and the FW190 that we have in DCS right now. This is all historically correct. The Spit IX variant we have should perform worse in all these categories against those opponent aircraft.

If we are to play to the aircraft's strengths, then we have to recognise that that it does NOT have advantages in speed, climb or dive. So, trying to "win" a dogfight using either, or a combination of those factors (especially below supercharger height, which is (let's be honest) where 95% of the multiplayer air combat is happening right now)) is simply bad flying.

Finding out what "not to do" is half the battle.

To that end I am in complete agreement with your "love" for the Spitfire IX.

If we generate a new mission to include a Spit and 109k, is it possible to "nerf" the 109 by reducing it's power or adding weight?

If we generate a new mission to include a Spit and 109k, is it possible to "nerf" the 109 by reducing it's power or adding weight?

I don't know tbh but for a MP server, if it is indeed possible, it's not a server mission I would choose to play on ......

It is absolutely not the right action to consider.... I get where the idea comes from but it's flawed.

A moment to think about the fall out is enough to draw a line under this.

Regarding the OP ....

My answer is to wing up with a wingman to try an even out the situation.

S!

It is very difficult for the Spitfire IX pilot to take the fight to the 109K. However it is equally difficult for the 109K to stay on the six of a Spitfire.

BnZ tactics are however definitely in favor of the German aircraft, so check your six frequently. Beware of dots descending on from above ;)

Beware of dots descending on from above ;)

Indeed!

(if you can see them... which I can't right now unfortunately...)

It is very difficult for the Spitfire IX pilot to take the fight to the 109K. However it is equally difficult for the 109K to stay on the six of a Spitfire.

 

BnZ tactics are however definitely in favor of the German aircraft, so check your six frequently. Beware of dots descending on from above ;)

I don't agree that it's equally difficult for the 109 to say on the six of a turning Spitfire ... at least early on ......

Opening line.... "on the six" for me is not necessarily just the 109s firing position. For me, it is the 'line up and getting into position to pull the trigger" also. Like I can see his cowling range.

I have witnessed (and sometimes been the spit pilot) where a 109K can quite reliably stay 'on the six' of a Spit IX in a turn for quite some time ... "feck, he's still there" scenario. I am on the limit of blackout but keeping my speed as best I can etc and shaking the 190 is not all that easy.

The Spit is be able to out turn (assuming like for like entry into the turning fight here in terms of speed, attitude etc) and stay relatively safe inside the 109s guns for quite some time but the spitfire is only one mistake away from trouble ... as opposed to easily being able to out manoeuvre the 109 and reset to the match up.

Your mileage may vary

S!

One thing to add that people tend to overlook:

Knowing when not to turn and how much to turn. People assume that they have to REALLY swing that Spit around because "It's a turnfighter...". The art in my opinion is to turn just enough to keep the 109 from getting you. That can have two effects: First, the 109 pilot might think he might just get you and continue turning with you which over time will make him bleed his energy more than you bleed yours and second, it'll safe your energy by keeping your speed up. You stay more mobile, the speed difference between you and him stays smaller, your radiator cooling stays more efficient which allows for higher boosts to be maintained...

A little video of mine that I hope demonstrates this a bit (check 6 minutes onward):

Notice how long the turning actually lasts. That 109 driver didn't lose the fight immidiatly, he lost it over the course of following me into the turns... and he was very good at keeping that 109 going (MW50 really allows you to throw that brick around by sheer muscle power it seems). As one might guess from the video, once I had a wingman with me, this was a very opportune situation. In my opinion, the gain from having a wingman on the Spit is bigger than for the 109s having a wingman because their B&Z doesn't lend itself as well to setting up as turnfighting does.

Thats another really great point arglmauf