Choosing load out in FC2

I know it worked ok in DCS,ka 50, but the load out screen in multiplayer FC2 for a bomber imo is quite restrictive, as I like to change my load out as per each situation, and although you get some choices you dont get all, and Ive observed when the load out is restricted by the server I press F11 view and scroll to my runway to see what Im carrying , but in some cases this is disabled, and you take off without really knowing your full load out( from the vanilla frog you cant see some inner plylons, can we not have the old way of choosing each plyon?,

1. Getting to choose loadout in MP, awesome.

2. Not getting all possible loadouts, yeah, can be a bit sad - but your chief is a overworked 45 year old guy with 8 kids, thats all he can represent at the moment.

3. Mission planner may think of a better loadout when he plans the mission and submits it.

 

Or rather - it's what we got, it's not ideal. But you can solve it by nagging your mission designers. Tell them to put a better default loadout on during planning ;)

1 - Being able to change ingame, yes. Having limited choice, no.

2 - No, it ain't. Its a CPU in my PC under the table :D

3 - ... and more flexible when someone complains. Most of the coop mission creators do not have an hear for a2g component :(

LO FC 1.12 have possibility to choose loadouts by players...

— and we have LOPE cheat: 4x R27ET, R77 on Su27 and so on....

Good answers ( not sure what xplight meant, I dont know about lopes or cheats in fighters I was only talking about my experiance in the su25 vanilla, but if your answer was trying to help thanks but I am not sure what you mean)

I didnt mean for server guys to ajust there defaults, I just meant Id like it to be the same as the old lock on,( multiplayer) there after the server guys could yes or no to the load out, as say in the 51st where they had a specific choice for the bombers ( aafaik the fighters) but it did not stop me from adding say fuel or less of one and more of another as long as it didnt breach the severs rules.

would it not be possible after say pressing F7 instead of what you have now in FC2, go to the old load out screen in FC1.1b( updated of course to suit FC2"), and then if the loadout was ok the Voice would say "ok" and if it was not allowed it would say "Cannot comply"

Hope Im not standing on anyones toes on this :smilewink:

Hope Im not standing on anyones toes on this :smilewink:

You are not standing on anyone's toes. As a matter of fact, your comments are valid and shared by many mud-movers here. We, the mud-movers are severely restricted and handicapped with the fact that, now, we can not have our weapons of choice in MP games. I hope this will change in the future.

 

Su-25 pilots are specially handicapped with the fact that we can not see our weapons on wings from the cab.

 

Life goes on ... I still love FC 2.0

True true... however when do bomber pilots ever get "exactly" what they want, in RL?

 

I mean just look at combat sorties flown by Su-25s in recent conflicts... You fight with what you get, and more often than not its just Rocket Pods and mabe a few dumb bombs, hardly a handy payload...

 

Id say that mission designers should just pay more attention to bomber loadouts, thats all that can be done i suppose...

LO FC 1.12 have possibility to choose loadouts by players...

— and we have LOPE cheat: 4x R27ET, R77 on Su27 and so on....

Anyway cheater has been banned just after his flight. It worked very well. Now it doesn't.

Anyway cheater has been banned just after his flight. It worked very well. Now it doesn't.

 

The only way is to integrity check Rearm.lua

As an attempt to allow for rearms-config via servman, does anyone have a modified sample rearm.lua for me?

As an attempt to allow for rearms-config via servman, does anyone have a modified sample rearm.lua for me?

 

That would be AWESOME if works... will it enforce it to each client, thus negating the need for IC on this file?

 

As for modified file, cant help you atm as im not home... but looking forward to test results... :)

True true... however when do bomber pilots ever get "exactly" what they want, in RL?

I mean just look at combat sorties flown by Su-25s in recent conflicts... You fight with what you get, and more often than not its just Rocket Pods and mabe a few dumb bombs, hardly a handy payload...

Id say that mission designers should just pay more attention to bomber loadouts, thats all that can be done i suppose...

 

Well, it primarily depends on stuff like mission planing and previous training. Pilots use not only what is available, but they choose among those what is best for the mission. And a mission usually encompasses close collaboration with ground units, which is not entirely possible in FC2. And pilots do not use weapons that they are not trained for, rather they choose what they know best.

If you were to relocate MP situation in FC2 into real life (instead doing other way around), you will have few aircraft that have meaning of mutual communication, few without any communication besides "Morse code" (chat), and all without any com from/to ground. Now, in such environment, you will most definitively choose a payload that will be more appropriate for solo hunting, instead for total collaboration in combat. MP environment in FC2 is more like something in the early stages of WW2, when pilots went free hunting, unaware of current battlefield conditions and situations, and you had to wait for him to return and to report.

That is why it is UNrealistic to force realistic payloads on MP fliers - environment is NOT realistic. Also, players have different perception of virtual world when compared to real life perception of real world. Meaning, some thing are easier IRL, like taking a look out and checking out how many of what is where under your wings.

 

It would be a lot other story if you could have preflight briefing with updated situation form the battlefield.

And a whole lot if there is airport management - that THE only realistic restriction over any payload.

 

Personally, I prefer "dumb" weapons, but I do not like offered combinations. For example, there is a mission on some MP server with nice number and variety of targets. In FC1, I was able to choose ONE SINGLE payload combo that will suffice for entire mission, spending 75-100% in each flight.

In FC2, I have to switch between 2-3 different available payloads, spending about 25-50% of what I have, and then I have to return for the "other half". Also, there are no half-empty payloads - which are most used payloads IRL!

 

Its not about certain weapon not being available, but about useless combinations.

As a mission designer, I prefer that players keep the default payload I assign to the flights because usually the payload I choose is made to fit the mission. Sometimes I use half-empty payloads or specific weapons, and I don't really like when players change to have something like 8x rocket pods.

 

Having less weapons makes the mission more difficult and players won't launch 6 missiles to make an air kill, but will think twice before they launch one.

 

If I had to vote, I would choose that it's not possible to change payload in MP.

Personally I had to create few dozens payloads for Su-25T, however mostly I use few ones. Of course I play most time only on 104th server, but I think on another servers I would use rest of payloads.

 

It is so badly, you can't select own payload like in FC 1 :|

If I had to vote, I would choose that it's not possible to change payload in MP.

 

I think that's a restrictive approach. I wouldn't play MP if I couldn't change loadouts. Simple example: Flying a SU-25T against a site guarded by SAMS. Without the ability to switch between SEAD and regular ground attack, it's pointless.

I just give my opinion, I agree it's a bit restrictive for public servers, but in cooperative missions with precise obejctives and a background story it is necessary.

If you make a mini-campaing with let's say 3 missions, and you define restricted quantity of ammo per plane and assign everyone a precise task, you don't want the escort to have bombs!

 

What if I plan that there are two buildings to destroy so one plane is assigned to this task and I only give it two bombs, I don't want him to have a full payload with guided missiles and rockets...!

Its not a "bit restrictive" - it ruins everything in public MP. How Am I supposed to coordinate my work with others? Third of them ain't on TS, third don't know how to lock any sort of target, and sometimes I'm not in the mood to be good guy are last third usually is.

 

Players should have the option to choose their payloads. As I said, its not about certain weapon not being available, but about useless combinations in default payloads, and big possibility that mission creator will NOT have an ear for a2g component. I found it ridiculous that I have to discuss that, let alone that I should join up on dozen or so forums begging and pleading with MP server hosters to change payloads.

There may be a way around the integrity check on rearm.lua.

 

It would work by splitting rearm.lua into several files, one for each aircraft, and then integrity check the aircraft specific files instead. This way server admins can restrict, for example, the payloads for fighters but allow strikers to select their own payloads.

 

I did just this and the modified rearm.lua and rearm_xxx.lua are attached below. Unfortunately I have not have much time to test this out, so if you want to help, back up your own Scripts/Aircraft/_Common/Rearm.lua and place the attached files in the same folder.

 

Known issues: I had to uncomment the guns only payload for each plane (see below) because this gave errors (in Temp/Errors).

[GUN_ONLY] = {},

 

I cannot guarantee this will work flawlessly, but with some testing, LUA knowledge and creative thinking we may find a solution for this.

rearm.rar

Gent's thanks, I've had a look at some of the files I recieved.

Something occurs to me though:

- If the server has a "customized" rearm database (without breaking integrity, f.ex via servman).

- the client has the original rearm rearm database (so we know he isnt cheating - integrity check passes).

 

Then when the client brings up his radio, to rearm:

- Client will see his local database? I assume this for now, since I haven't started testing this much yet.

- Client request a load out, let's say F3.

Then either:

A) Server responds to the "F3" slot as in "#3" in server-database?

And delivers a loadout the client didnt request (the user saw something else on screen from the client-database).

B) Server responds to a loadout-id being requested. A loadout-id from the client-database which is FC2 original, and not what we're looking for.

 

Anyway - this needs to be inspected. I can see there will be major challenges getting the client to be able to see what the server knows about Rearm-data.

As a mission designer, I prefer that players keep the default payload I assign to the flights because usually the payload I choose is made to fit the mission.

I disagree with your position big time. Why do you as a mission designer, want me to solve a battle task problem the way you want it to be solved? My idea might be better. And my choice of weapons might be better then yours.

As a mission designer, I prefer that players keep the default payload I assign to the flights because usually the payload I choose is made to fit the mission.

 

If I had to vote, I would choose that it's not possible to change payload in MP.

 

I agree. For instance it is not possible to have an "80s only" mission limiting aircraft to SARH and IR payloads. Even without editing the stock payloads players can betray the whole purpose of the mission by selecting a payload filled with active missiles. Having a choice to limit said payloads would be nice.

 

But to Hajduk Veljko's point. Why not? Is it not the purpose of game design to decide/limit the players choice of method to complete a task. Tetris wouldn't be the same if you got to choose which block comes next. With relation to FC2... whats so different/better about the payload you want to have vs the one you get?

 

In my missions I assign a payload I think is quite capable of completing the task at had. It may be more of what I consider to be a quality payload than what you do, but a good portion of weapons are still quite usable for your task. Furthermore Panzertard summed it up pretty well, bug the mission designer to change the payload. I originally gave the F-15s a payload of 4 Aim120Cs, 2 aim7s, and 2 aim9s, however after enough complaints and unwillingness to keep listening to them I changed it.

Why not put an new option in the "Mission Option" menu in the editor (the menu we set the extrernal views, the padlok, the birds %). Have a box to tick or not so the payload is changeable or not ?

As a mission designer, I prefer that players keep the default payload I assign to the flights because usually the payload I choose is made to fit the mission. Sometimes I use half-empty payloads or specific weapons, and I don't really like when players change to have something like 8x rocket pods.

 

Having less weapons makes the mission more difficult and players won't launch 6 missiles to make an air kill, but will think twice before they launch one.

 

If I had to vote, I would choose that it's not possible to change payload in MP.

With due respect to your post , I would have to disagree in part, Bombers should have the right to change out, to what ever combination they see fit to use, I can see your point if the mission was for a time where a certain missile was not invented, but what if I want extra fuel?, or to carry all rockets, or just 2 missiles? as mission planner dont you think that you are maybe restricting a bit, better bombers get the full choice as in old FC1.12b, and then if the sever runs a 80s theme, then restrict the missile not the combinations.

If you restrict on a blanket basis, you take away my individual right to fight the mission as I see fit at the time, I may want rockets for the 1st run or bombs for the 2nd run or a combination of those or just a rack of bomblets,

Its not that I don't go for certain missions where you are restricted, I like them, but not to take away my choice for all missions.

Edited May 4, 2010 by flask

Then when the client brings up his radio, to rearm:

- Client will see his local database? I assume this for now, since I haven't started testing this much yet.

 

Yes client will see his own database.

- Client request a load out, let's say F3.

Then either:

A) Server responds to the "F3" slot as in "#3" in server-database?

No, client database.

 

I made few dozen payloads and have played recently on servers. 104th was public one, where I succesfully used my own payload called by TAB, +, -, ect keys.

Another tests which I made confirm - whatever I choose it is loaded and server sees what i see and another clients see what I see :)

 

I just give my opinion, I agree it's a bit restrictive for public servers, but in cooperative missions with precise obejctives and a background story it is necessary.

If you make a mini-campaing with let's say 3 missions, and you define restricted quantity of ammo per plane and assign everyone a precise task, you don't want the escort to have bombs!

 

What if I plan that there are two buildings to destroy so one plane is assigned to this task and I only give it two bombs, I don't want him to have a full payload with guided missiles and rockets...!

 

Can't agree - you don't know on what phase client will come to play -in this time payload usefulness you set might have changed in meantime.

 

I disagree with your position big time. Why do you as a mission designer, want me to solve a battle task problem the way you want it to be solved? My idea might be better. And my choice of weapons might be better then yours.

 

Exactly, bomber pilots do know better how to solve problem than grandpas in the HQ drinking coffee :]

 

Why not put an new option in the "Mission Option" menu in the editor (the menu we set the extrernal views, the padlok, the birds %). Have a box to tick or not so the payload is changeable or not ?

 

This would be probably good solution.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Boberro

Just having a quick look at each strike aircrafts preset payloads... the only payload options that really suck are for the 25T. Part of the reason the 25T payload options are terrible is because the thing can do so many different tasks its not even funny.

 

For the A-10 and Su-25A they are pretty reasonable, but could use some work. Yet they are still plenty capable of fulfilling a mission.