Mirage radar CONSTANTLY losing lock on low flying targets!!!

The higher you are relative to your target, the harder it is for the radar to track it.

The lock down "bug" is however a bit too exaggerated i think, really too sensitive.

Interesting!!! It seems lock is lost ONLY when I am at about 20-25000 feet and lock an enemy nearly 45° downwards, I bet it is the 45° hillsides that reflect radar back! (as in created a 90° angle surface) Just locked a low flyer while I was at only 12000 feet and lower, didn't lose lock! :)

DCS doesn't simulate actual radar raycasts for air target detection. In DCS the radar just gets the enemy position from the game engine and checks if the target is inside of the radar parameters. If that is the case it will be shown on the radar display, otherwise it will not be displayed. I guess there is a raycast that checks for obstacles (like mountains) between the player and the target, but that's about it. It does not actually utilize raycasts to scan the area.

So, no, there aren't radar reflections from angeled surfaces.

The lock down "bug" is however a bit too exaggerated i think, really too sensitive.

 

[...]

I agree that radar notching is currently too sensitive but it is not too far of I think. With the right tactic I don't loose lock when guiding my 530Ds and that give me a hit/miss ratio over 50%.

I can't say a lot from you pictures but on all of them your target is below you and on some of them I can see that the target start notching while you still have a lock.

The higher you are relative to your target, the harder it is for the radar to track it.

Even if target is at 12000 feet?

Even if target is at 12000 feet?

If you are at 45kft and your target is at 30kft , 35kft or 40kft depending on the distance the notch is possible.

The important parameter is the ΔAlt between you and your target, higher altitudes and distances will allow the ΔAlt to be bigger before notch can occur.

Side note: The above might not be true, that how I understand it would work IRL. I don't know if it work that way in DCS but my experience tends to confirm this.

Even if target is at 12000 feet?

If your radar looks below the horizon it filters out ground clutter this is when the notch comes into effect.

An F15 will lose lock in the same way but a Russian fighter doesn't always because it switches to EOS lock.

[...] Russian fighter doesn't always because it switches to EOS lock.

Does it allow them to keep guiding Fox1 missiles ?

Does it allow them to keep guiding Fox1 missiles ?

No, obviously not. Plus it will only switch to EOS if it gets a lock on the heat signature, if there is no heat signature the lock will drop completely.

No, obviously not. Plus it will only switch to EOS if it gets a lock on the heat signature, if there is no heat signature the lock will drop completely.

That what I thought, thanks for the answer.

I agree that radar notching is currently too sensitive but it is not too far of I think. With the right tactic I don't loose lock when guiding my 530Ds and that give me a hit/miss ratio over 50%.

 

I can't say a lot from you pictures but on all of them your target is below you and on some of them I can see that the target start notching while you still have a lock.

You can see the same in the first shoots where i'm almost at level with my target.

I had one case of a headon f15 just for testing something entirely different. I am kinda sad I didnt save the track. Literally 5 deg crossing angle STT dropping.

Maybe at some point I will reproduce but since its said to be ED bug I wont loose any sweat over it its annoying but ah well its there for so long zeus knows it exists so yeah.

There is more pressing issues lol. :D

But its most definitely there.

The lock down "bug" is however a bit too exaggerated i think, really too sensitive.

Conroy your pictures show exactly what happens all the time!! In every instance target is less than 5.5 miles out and look at the two bottom pics. In one, the target is LESS than 5 degrees off your nose and OVER WATER!!

This is not what the pictures are showing.

He is shooting on targets who are defending = beaming and forcing him in look down.

In the first picture you may have 5 degrees off, but surely not in the picture where the lock is broken.

I don't mean to "patronize" anyone, yes there are some bugs, but loosing lock isn't always a bug. The target is working hard to achieve it.

You have to master Fox 1 BVR tactics:

- crank

- beam (and how to counter it)

Sorry, the best video I know on the topic is in French, but the video speak by itself.

You will see in it the beam maneuver on F-15 radar screen in look up and look down (1'28" : "bas" = down/ "Haut" = up). Off course, for the tutorial it's again AI, you will have to be more agressive in MP. But the principle remains: shoot then go & stay below your target. When the target beams: press.

F-15C with AIM-7M Vs Su 27 R-27ER.

shoot then go & stay below your target. When the target beams: press.

Hey, stop giving away my super duper next gen top gun fighter pilot tactics !!:D

Uh guys, it does not matter if the target is 5, 10 or 90 degrees relative of your flight course, it does matter which direction your target is heading to in relation to you, as you are the emitter!

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I've just been poking around to see what radar specific code exists in the module, and my first impression is "not much". From what I can see so far (an extremely quick look), the radar is declared and set a max range - then it has two competing definitions for a value named "radar_can_see_ground".

has_differential_stabilizer = false,
radar_can_see_ground		= false,
stores_number				= 9, ...

and...

--sensors
detection_range_max		 = 120,
radar_can_see_ground 	 = true, -- this should be examined (what is this exactly?)

CanopyGeometry = {
azimuth  ...

Amusingly, the developer has also left in a note to confirm the functionality of the setting! :)

We also don't have a great deal to compare to either - unlike most DCS modules, the FC3 modules appear to be compiled down into dlls preventing trivial examination. I'm guessing though that what we'd find is that the module loader just hooks values such as detection range out of the dll or lua as appropriate and passes it to the engine to handle.

Having said all that, I've just realised that I've not seen any values relating to scan speed, max/min azimuth etc - but the module does set the radar type as "RDY", again pointing to this being defined and handled in ED code rather than RazBam's.

I'd reckon that a module doesn't have sufficient access to the required underlying data representing other aircraft around it to for a 3rd party to independently develop a radar model. With that in mind, I don't think there's a huge amount any 3rd party can do about any perceived sensitivity to notching - it's defined and settled a long way up the chain from them!

Can somebody please recap me why posts like this do not exist in the f15 forum?

Becouse if this behavior is normal/correct, i would like just to understand why playing the f15 does not lead to all these problems.

When i played the f15 i never had the radar-paranoia that i had with the m2kc. Since i dont play these birds anymore i really dont care too much, but i am just curious.

I am not looking for a ultra-tech answer/tip,becouse i am not a hardcore simmer/gamer.

I would love an easy answer (if there is one, otheway amen and gg).

Thanks :thumbup:

It's unlikely that you have access to the radar code.

What you can find is probably the simplified parameters for AI.

Uh guys, it does not matter if the target is 5, 10 or 90 degrees relative of your flight course, it does matter which direction your target is heading to in relation to you, as you are the emitter!

 

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Relative to you your flight course is relative to you.

What is true is what counts is the angle to your radar lock line (which may be 60 degrees off) rather than you flight course.

But in the screenshot we discussed it was pure head on.

The problem is that this feature is really too sensitive.

I don't get the point here of some answers, jojo for ex. Do you state that the "lock down" feature in M2000C is fine as it is now?

Would be nice some attentions from Zeus about this losing lock problem, as for an answer at least by RAZBAM.

The problem is that this feature is really too sensitive.

 

I don't get the point here of some answers, jojo for ex. Do you state that the "lock down" feature in M2000C is fine as it is now?

 

Would be nice some attentions from Zeus about this losing lock problem, as for an answer at least by RAZBAM.

Well, do you know how this behaves IRL? I don't, so I can't judge if the game is modelling it correctly. Can you?

Getting some real world data that proofs these claims would be really helpful.

Wich claims? That it could be fine as it is or that's not?

Sometimes, the common sense could be helpful: it's possibile that an aircraft like the M2000 had a so weak radar in lock down capabilities?

The problem is that this feature is really too sensitive.

 

I don't get the point here of some answers, jojo for ex. Do you state that the "lock down" feature in M2000C is fine as it is now?

 

Would be nice some attentions from Zeus about this losing lock problem, as for an answer at least by RAZBAM.

I agree the beam is too sensitive, we loose the lock too quickly.

But, even if this is fixed, if you stay in look down after firing and the target is beaming, you will loose the lock anyway.

Fly Su 27 with R-27ER or F-15C with AIM-7M and you will face the same problem.

A lot of people complain about loosing lock, but they don't point to the bug. They don't use proper Fox 1 tactics.

You can bean Su 27, F-15C, AIM-120 and R-77 too.

The problem with M-2000C is that this is instantaneous.

Wich claims? That it could be fine as it is or that's not?

 

Sometimes, the common sense could be helpful: it's possibile that an aircraft like the M2000 had a so weak radar in lock down capabilities?

This isn't a Mirage 2000C RDI weakness, this is Fox 1 system limitation.

All fighters of that time period have this limitation:

- F-15A/ C

- F-16

- F-14

- Tornado F3

- MiG 29

- Su 27

- JA 37 Viggen

- Mirage 2000C RDI

And before this generation they had at best look down but no shoot down at all.

Even current generation fighters have limitations detecting target look down in the beam.