Need to vent

in game the flap possition does not effect G on the wing. overspeeding does..... but i have tested thoroughly the effect of weight on wings and in game you can snap off your wings incredibly easy with no weapons on them going 700kmph however with some weight on the wings its almost impossible to break them..... because there is more weight on the wings and more momentum to turn the wings can handle it. but with no weps its to high of a wing load at that speed and G

The two modeled 25's are the only planes in the game that make me feel like I'm flying. I like the 25T the best, it's the only one in the game with a TV guided bomb! Just trim it for level flight after you take off and after every weapon launch and it is very stable. You can't fling it around for a quick run in like the A-10 so take your time in planning and setting up your run and you can do a lot of damage in one pass.

in game the flap possition does not effect G on the wing. overspeeding does..... but i have tested thoroughly the effect of weight on wings and in game you can snap off your wings incredibly easy with no weapons on them going 700kmph however with some weight on the wings its almost impossible to break them..... because there is more weight on the wings and more momentum to turn the wings can handle it. but with no weps its to high of a wing load at that speed and G

When I study Su-25(T) G-brakedown I managed to brake both with max payload, so keep trying - it's not easy, but you can do it!:D

in game the flap possition does not effect G on the wing. overspeeding does..... but i have tested thoroughly the effect of weight on wings and in game you can snap off your wings incredibly easy with no weapons on them going 700kmph however with some weight on the wings its almost impossible to break them..... because there is more weight on the wings and more momentum to turn the wings can handle it. but with no weps its to high of a wing load at that speed and G

The 25T should have a placard in the cockpit explaining the flap down speed limits, as well as air brake max speed. Come to think of it, I havent seen a Vne (velocity never exceed) placard either.

When I study Su-25(T) G-brakedown I managed to brake both with max payload, so keep trying - it's not easy, but you can do it!:D

:shocking: wow you must have been screaming fast :D

The 25T should have a placard in the cockpit explaining the flap down speed limits, as well as air brake max speed. Come to think of it, I havent seen a Vne (velocity never exceed) placard either.

OTOH, isn't that what the red mark on the airspeed indicator is: Vne? I know very bad things happen very easily when I push past that mark.

The yellow mark indicates the maximum speed for normal operations and also marks the start of the airspeed "caution" area with the range running up to the red mark.

And it would seem that the white tick mark is Vs1--the approximate stall speed with flaps and landing gear retracted.

Anyone know what the blue mark indicates? Several things happen at that airspeed (400km/hr IAS). The Mach meter becomes visible which leads me to believe that it might indicate the start of the normal operations area. Or looked at another way, the airspeed below which maneuvering flaps should be extended. But now I'm not sure. I've seen it (a blue tick mark) described as the Vyse, the speed for best rate of climb with the critical engine inoperative on multi-engine aircraft.

Rich

OTOH, isn't that what the red mark on the airspeed indicator is: Vne? I know very bad things happen very easily when I push past that mark.

 

The yellow mark indicates the maximum speed for normal operations and also marks the start of the airspeed "caution" area with the range running up to the red mark.

 

And it would seem that the white tick mark is Vs1--the approximate stall speed with flaps and landing gear retracted.

 

I have never noticed these tick marks. I dont even know if the placards are there in the cockpit since its all written in russian. I dont read the manual I just hop in and learn.

In US aircraft, a red range mark on the instrament would indicate a no-go operating range for engine rpm and aircraft Vne, while a white tickmark would indicate safe rmin and rmax operations of flaps, landing gear, and any other control surfaces that increases the camber of the wing. I forgot what blue was, Ill review it after red flag. Green range marks indicate a safe, normal operating airspeed and engine rpm.

The red mark at at 20 for AoA is the recommended limit for the plane, go over it and listen to it creak and groan lol. It's like the Russian space program, held together by spare parts but it works damnit! Over 700kph the plane realy starts to shake and makes aiming hard but the flaps in combat mode help somewhat with stabilising while in a dive attack.

... I dont read the manual I just hop in and learn.

I tend to be the same way. That's why I noticed those tick marks. The manual, to the best of my knowledge, does not address them.

In US aircraft, a red range mark on the instrament would indicate a no-go operating range for engine rpm and aircraft Vne, while a white tickmark would indicate safe rmin and rmax operations of flaps, landing gear, and any other control surfaces that increases the camber of the wing. I forgot what blue was, Ill review it after red flag. Green range marks indicate a safe, normal operating airspeed and engine rpm.

Seems similar here to a degree, though here blue is used instead of green and I don't know if the meaning is the same. I've tried searching for descriptions but everything I find is for private and/or commerial aviation. How the markings are set up is different. Our instruments have individual tick marks, not the color bands you see in most illustrations.

Rich

 

Seems similar here to a degree, though here blue is used instead of green and I don't know if the meaning is the same. I've tried searching for descriptions but everything I find is for private and/or commerial aviation. How the markings are set up is different. Our instruments have individual tick marks, not the color bands you see in most illustrations. Rich

Blue is used as well as green in US aircraft...I think its for prop pitch, but Ill edit this post when I find the answer. The book is right here, Ill just look it up.

This is civil aviation only, but it pertains to some US military aircraft range markings. I dont know about russian aircraft since these range markings are only mandated by the US/Canadian FAA.

Edit:

Blue Arc is for twin engines best rate of climb

Yellow Arc is limited flight ops

Red Radial line is vne, engine rpm no-go ranges (2900rpm engine limits, out of balance zones due to high vibrations)

Green is normal airspeed , with bottom of arc being stall speed and top of the arc is top speed in rough air

White arc is used for flap range, with the lower arc being minimum stall speed with flaps in full down, upper arc indicates max speed flaps down.

Except for the blue arc, that sounds like what I've seen. Too bad our aircraft don't have arcs painted on the gauges. I'd make things easier to interpret. Still not sure exactly what the single white and single blue tick marks signify.

Rich

Would be nice to mod it into the cockpit into something more useful...:D

Think I might have a go with this. I need a way to memorize this stuff anyways for my FAA writtens in a few months.

Heres what I have decyphered so far:

Limited ops can be construed as "you can operate here, but dont get too close to the yellow line". Vne actually starts closer between 6.5-7 on the dial, and shrinks even lower than that above 5k alt...this is where the aircraft starts to shake and bake. The red tick mark indicates mach speed, and no control surfaces respond to input. Control surfaces and wing chord start to separate at the "BTH" line at approx 5-6g's of lateral movement.

All in all, I just confirmed what you just posted a few posts ago Rich...I just re-read them ;)

whats "Vne" .................?

whats "Vne" .................?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds

Vne = Velocity Never Exceed...means that bad things happen to the airframe after that speed is passed. Vacuum lines in the avionics might suffer from this as well since both the barometric altitude indicator and the machmeter run off of the pitot-static lines.

ahhhh.... Thanks :D

Heres what I have decyphered so far:

 

Limited ops can be construed as "you can operate here, but dont get too close to the yellow line". Vne actually starts closer between 6.5-7 on the dial, and shrinks even lower than that above 5k alt...this is where the aircraft starts to shake and bake. The red tick mark indicates mach speed, and no control surfaces respond to input. Control surfaces and wing chord start to separate at the "BTH" line at approx 5-6g's of lateral movement.

 

All in all, I just confirmed what you just posted a few posts ago Rich...I just re-read them ;)

I always thought that VNE is above the red mark...

Noo! No. No no no noo noooOoo. Vne is considered the top sustainable speed the aircraft can handle without braking apart. The wing span is far too wide to sustain any kind of speed like that. Since every single aircraft is built differently, whether the materials are the same, the dimensions will always be off in one way or another, and the Vne is set by the aircraft mfg in the flight manual. Structural integrity is considered compromised after Vne. May not be true for that individual aircraft, but its best to stay AWAY from Vne.

well I've done 1070 km/h and nothing happened to the Su-25T... My mate dived at 1400+ and nothing, just shaky ride.

The Su-25T in-game and the actual aircraft are 2 different things. The wings would literally rip right off over a certain threshold. Where exactly that threshold is is dependant on how well built the aircraft is. Essentially, the wing produces too much drag. Ill look for the proper drag formula to calculate drag ratio of the wings...what this formula tells you is how much drag in lbs the wing actually produces. I cant find it in my text books, but I have it here somewhere.

Heres some reading I should post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_loading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)

Ill post more when I find the appropriate subjects I am thinking about...Im too hyped up on coffee! :D

Edit: Dont quote me on this, but drag is calculated like this: (using an antenna for reference)

.023(circumference of antenna) x 220mph (Velocity) = 5lbs of force (the formula I am using is wrong, but its close)

Ill update this when I get to school on monday. I dont have the drag formula in my notes.

The devs were nice and didn't punish you with a non-tolerant aircraft.

At Vne you would probably begin suffering from compressibility effects (loss of control)

dam hitman were quizing you for your exams now :P ................. now get those formulas or you get an F :D

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I don't mean to change the subject here, but I did manage to get some TFrog flying in along the past couple of days. I'm taking back what I said earlier. One you figure out the sweet spots, it doesn't fly bad at all. Like GG said, it isn't zippy, but I'm not calling it a "truck" anymore. :D And I agree with others, flaps can be your friend in a turn.

I think Cobrabase also started a thread a while back about landing. After a few hours flying around the Caucuses making good use of the IR jammer, I managed to pull off a visual landing. Good weather and no wind mind you, but no ILS. I honestly think the advance FM helps you land it better. Its like I could instinctively feel how much I need to flare when landing. I'm hoping this this is a good sign of things to come!