Getting a lock on low flying helos (F-15C)

[lo999]

I'm having a lot of trouble seeing low flying helos on my VSD. Whenever I do manage to get a lock on them, it only lasts for a couple of seconds and then they'll disappear again. Is there something I can do to counter this? I thought the F-15C's radar was supposed to be able to look down and not get confused by ground clutter.

 

Also I have a second unrelated question: why is it that whenever I get shot by an AI missile, my pilot dies instantly? AI pilots on the other hand always manage to eject no matter where I hit them or which type of missile I use. It just happened again a few minutes ago. I shot down an Su-27 by hitting him head on with a slammer. He still managed to eject and I tried to gun down his parachute out of frustration, but that didn't work either. What's the deal here?

[Pyroflash]

I'm having a lot of trouble seeing low flying helos on my VSD. Whenever I do manage to get a lock on them, it only lasts for a couple of seconds and then they'll disappear again. Is there something I can do to counter this? I thought the F-15C's radar was supposed to be able to look down and not get confused by ground clutter.

 

Also I have a second unrelated question: why is it that whenever I get shot by an AI missile, my pilot dies instantly? AI pilots on the other hand always manage to eject no matter where I hit them or which type of missile I use. It just happened again a few minutes ago. I shot down an Su-27 by hitting him head on with a slammer. He still managed to eject and I tried to gun down his parachute out of frustration, but that didn't work either. What's the deal here?

 

1. Helicopters have unrealistic RADAR detection ranges. This was done for game balancing purposes. Nobody understands, but presumably it was intended as a minor aid to helo pilots in multiplayer servers.

 

2. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on the HE power of the missile and where it impacts. It's nothing you can impact directly, except maybe try getting a face shot.

[FLANKERATOR]

Choppers should be hard to pick up on radar, especially if low and slow.

[xxJohnxx]

Choppers should be hard to pick up on radar, especially if low and slow.

 

If you are low, there could be terrain masking.

 

However the speed shouldn't matter, as your fast spinning rotor is a very good radar reflector.

[Pyroflash]

Choppers should be hard to pick up on radar, especially if low and slow.

 

Yeah, spinning rotors make up a huge percentage of any aircraft's RCS. This applies for turbine fans, and applies doubly so for helicopters.

[sobek]

Choppers should be hard to pick up on radar,

 

If by hard to pick up you mean stand out like a pink tutu at a slipknot concert i agree.

[VincentLaw]

game balancing

I didn't realize that was something ED did to their vehicles.

[FLANKERATOR]

If by hard to pick up you mean stand out like a pink tutu at a slipknot concert i agree.

 

You must have failed to see 'on radar' after 'pick up', haven't you.

 

Back on topic, there seems to be a ''jamming'' effect inherent to the helicopter rotor:

 

A Doppler radar sees only moving targets, the real target will appear to be surrounded by small other ''targets'', as each of the rotor blades alternatively increases and decreases its speed over the ground with every revolution.A Doppler radar normally will have great difficulty maintaining s steady track on the helo itself with all this distraction, which can result in erratic guidance, increasing miss distance, and possibly missile-ground impact.

- Robert Shaw - Fighter Combat

[sobek]

Robert Shaw - Fighter Combat

 

From a pure signal processing standpoint, i refuse to believe that something as trivial as circular motion can not be adequately tracked by the processing power available to radars of that generation.

[GGTharos]

Depends on which radar you are using, some radars can handle it, some not. For an F-15 radar it is the same as dealing with JEM lines - the jet engine modulation when it can see the blades spinning. At short ranges the radar can lock onto that and it will look like an AOJ target, but the radar will sort it out and 'fix it'.

 

F-15's have been known to pick up and track low and slow helis from over 40nm, including helis sitting on the ground.

 

On the other hand, I heard the original Su-27/MiG-29 radars can't handle this and present an AOJ line, but my sources for those aircraft were not as reliable, whereas for the F-15 there's actual combat data.

 

You must have failed to see 'on radar' after 'pick up', haven't you.

 

Back on topic, there seems to be a ''jamming'' effect inherent to the helicopter rotor:

 

- Robert Shaw - Fighter Combat

[Cali]

F-15's actually dropped bombs on hovering copters in the Gulf War. Like GG said, they picked them up from over 30 miles away.

[hvymtal]

N001 and N019 aren't going to be as long ranged, but from experience using it in DCS against planes and the like and the occasional word i hear on it here and there it should be able to fix helis intelligently using the blades. Dunno how. N001 definitely better than the N019 for this purpose

[Vampyr]

I've managed to get locks on low flying helos if I fly at the same altitude as them.

[GGTharos]

The picked the heli up from 50nm using the A/A radar, and once close enough they used the pod for the bomb drop.

[blkspade]

In general I find issues maintaining lock at range can also be attributed to not being in high PRF. It should also be noted that its almost pointless trying to hit helis with the radar guided missiles. Seeming for the same reasons you end up loosing lock can cause the missile to lose track. Since I almost always carry sidewinders, those will typically get used on helis/strikers if the opportunity presents itself. Save the amraams for more threatening aircraft, or 25Ts trying so run SEAD on my airfield.

[Pyroflash]

In general I find issues maintaining lock at range can also be attributed to not being in high PRF.

 

High PRF is good for high aspect targets. When in close, I prefer to use interleaved, or medium if they are med-low aspect. same rules apply for copters.

[winchesterdelta1]

When you fly high and you scan super low you can find choppers up to 60 miles. Atleast in 1.2.7. But i was never able to hit them with AIM-120 |no matter what range and aspect.

[DieHard]

DCS MP sim, not real life:

Not often, but does happen, infrared missile and I was twenty meters off the deck in mixed, low hills flying Shark at medium speed. Usually always the same guy, the server I usually am on. But I did violate one of my rules, "don't be predictable" . If the same map is being played ad nauseum, enemy finds what are the planned ingress routes and they vulch it.

 

Would be nice if the trees were simulated as real trees.

 

Enemy SAMS do not see me below 6 meters, I doubt enemy aircraft do.