Question for panel makers - engraving.. how do you do it?

[Stevos758]

What about guys with CNC machines. What Cam program are you running for engraving?

 

All I have is meshcam to work with right now and it's not ideal for engraving.

 

Thinking of giving cut2d a whirl.

 

Right now I am planning on using white acrylic for light plate and faceplate but you may have convinced me otherwise.

[cichlidfan]

Here is a good post by Gadroc, which mentions some of the software he has tried.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2024289&postcount=9

 

Not sure if this is helpful but...

[metalnwood]

Cut2d will do everything that you need for panels, it's missing the v-carving of vcarve pro but that is something that is usually used for decorative woodworking.

 

cut2d has a demo which is limited but it might give you an idea.

 

Steve, if there is something you want to try using cut2d you can give it to me and I can create the tool paths and geode for you. I will do it from vcarvepro but it will be the same output that cut2d will produce.

 

It's important when doing rotary engraving that you have a flat area so make sure that your table is surfaced properly. It wouldn't be a bad idea to put down a small piece of MDF and surface it then put your panel on top to ensure it is as flat as can be because your engraving bit has a small tip and differences in height can show up as uneven engraving.

[Stevos758]

I think I will just pick up Cut 2D. Thanks very much for the offer metalnwood!

 

I have played with the demo and it looks good to go!

[Devon Custard]

Out of interest what kind of quality can you get with a CNC? how fine can you engrave?

[Stevos758]

I'm not sure yet. I have a cutter that has a .002" tip so we will see.

 

Ill be trying some engraving out in the next few days hopefully and will report back.

[geneb]

I hate to say it, but you'll get a much better finish if you can scrounge up a laser engraver.

 

g.

[Devon Custard]

I hate to say it, but you'll get a much better finish if you can scrounge up a laser engraver.

 

g.

 

I guess with a laser you can engrave reasonably deep. But the problem with laser engraving is the heat it generates, tends to melt paint!!!

 

Finally got a working process, stumbled onto acrylic paints which can be used to fill the engraving and then the excess is simpled wiped away.

 

Cut and engrave

Base paint

Dry

Clear coat

Dry

Paint/engrave

Remove excess

Dry.

 

Getting this to work for the CDU and UFC buttons has been a royal PAIN in the ass. However finally there i think...

[geneb]

When I made the panels that I needed for the F-15, I didn't engrave deeply at all. In fact I set it up such that it would only ablate the paint mask and the black layer of paint. I'd go back over it with white paint to catch any spots that under-engraved.

 

The end result is a museum quality Type 5 panel replica. The only way to make the process more technically accurate is to screen print them. (which is something I'm going to check out at some point)

 

g.

[Warhog]

My panels were drawn in AutoCAD and then exported out as a dxf file.

 

The software I have bee using is called CamBam. It has 40 free uses before you need to buy it. I just leave it running all the time and so far I have only used 20 of the 40 uses it gives you and that's over the past 2 years.

 

Its very easy to learn how to use it and it will let you engrave, cut out the holes and anything else you may need. I also use it for PCBs.

 

http://www.cambam.info/

 

As far as quality goes, here are several examples of what a rotary type engraver can do. Compared to a laser I would say they are close but the laser is probably a little easier to use. A CNC mini mill however has so much more to offer as it can do many things a laser can not do. But it gets down to what you want to do. Besides engraving I use my CNC mill to make a lot of parts for various projects unrelated to flying.

 

 

 

 

 

If you download these pictures and then blow then up you will see how fine a cut you can get. And to put this last photo in perspective, there is a 14 pin connector on the other side of the PCB. The lettering is .1" high and the holes are .030" diameter. The plastic in photo 1 is Rowmark engraving plastic, .060" thick. The cutter is a 60 degree V cutter, .010" tip and the cutting depth I used for the PCB was .07" deep.

 

I hope that gives you an idea of what the rotary engraver can do and the quality you can obtain with it.

[geneb]

You're preaching to the choir. Check out http://www.f15sim.com/index.html - that links to the pre-blog site and the first few entries show how the fuel panel was done. That's as close as you're going to get to a real Type 5 without screen printing it.

 

At that time I used VCarve Pro for all my tool paths. I've since upgraded to Aspire.

 

g.

[metalnwood]

You shouldn't get melting paint and a bad finish because of it. You should just get vaporised paint and something is not right otherwise.

 

Like Gene said most people I have seen work with paint, professionals, not just hobbyists will only try to remove a layer or two of paint, as little as needed to get to the other colour layer below.

 

Lasers and cnc mills both have pro's and cons. Thats why you need both :)

[geneb]

Lasers and cnc mills both have pro's and cons. Thats why you need both :)

 

This helps meet the "He who dies with the most toys, wins." mandate in the Man Caves 101 Handbook. :D

 

g.

[Devon Custard]

youre playing with a better toy than most lols

 

gauging that correct scan gap to ensure a clean cut vs minimal overlap and therefore burning thru too many layers? ouch

[metalnwood]

I never found the scan gap to interfere with things to much.

 

Just set your scan gap and test for power and speed to get you where you want to. Make sure focus is OK first.

[geneb]

I've never seen a "scan gap" parameter to work with. I just treat it like a printer (literally). I set the power & speed of the laser and make sure I tick the "auto-focus" box. :) (I use an Epilog Mini-24 with a 45W laser)

 

g.

[metalnwood]

Gene, I think on the epilog you set the DPI, on these machines the scan gap another way of essentially saying this. It's the gaps between the lines when doing the engraving.

 

E.g. 0.085 is the same as 300 dpi, 0.05 is the same as 500dpi.

[geneb]

Ahh, ok. I get it. I typically use either 600 or 1200 dpi.

 

g.

[Stevos758]

Ok, now you all really did it. Recommend a laser cutter for 1-2K

 

I "NEED" one!

[metalnwood]

Off the top of my head, not sure. $2k is a little below getting a machine that will pretty much run without any coaxing.

 

For any reasonable price you are looking at a chinese laser, not an epilog or similar american/european brand.

 

Whatever you do, do not run off and buy a cheap desktop one off ebay until you fully understand what will be required to make it work. Search back for some posts about lasers and see what it took Gadroc to turn his cheap one in to a properly working one. From memory it cost about the same as the base machine in upgrades.

[Devon Custard]

Heartily agree with metalnwood. I spend £3k on mine and i love it but it still feels like a hobbyists laser :) And you will spend a good month or two playing with it before you get results youre happy with (assuming you work for a living, have a wife/gf etc all of which will get in the way)

 

However you will love it when it starts chucking out nice clean cuts and your panels look (more) professional than a "cut by dremmel" look.

 

Also make sure you have a workshop away from kids/family etc. The outgassing on these things is rough on the lungs, i literally made myself sick in the first week breathing in the fumes. Good ventilation/extraction is a must.

[Stevos758]

Any brand names you could recommend?

 

I may be willing to spend 3k

 

I have a job that will pay for most of it lined up already.

[Stevos758]

What about this guy here?

 

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/laser-engraving/35w-co2-laser-machine-19-7%E2%80%B3-x-11-8%E2%80%B3

[agrasyuk]

thats where i got my laser. cheap but immediately required controller upgrade to be usefull. Can't say much about the company, i think those are generic china lasers that they redistribute and they have a messy website without much info. might be quite a drive for you however

Edited May 22, 2014 by agrasyuk

[Stevos758]

thats where i got my laser. cheap but immediately required controller upgrade to be usefull. Can't say much about the company, i think those are generic china lasers that they redistribute. might be quite a drive for you however

 

They will ship for a reasonable fee.

 

What do I need for a controller? I'll start pricing one out.

 

Something like this?

 

http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives.html

 

How do you like the laser?

Edited May 22, 2014 by Stevos758