Putting out feelers, who wants laser cutting services?

Devon Custard · April 29, 2014

Now that im getting some decent results from the laser. And also considering buying in bulk is cheaper, whos interested in getting panels laser cut/engraved? Kinda curious how many pit builders out there are active.

Im not looking to turn this into a business i.e. im not planning on charging huge prices. Basically im planning on charging for materials and labour (i have to sit and watch the laser and ensure it doesnt erupt into flame!). As long as you guys are only paying for me to operate the laser i wont charge a fortune either. Ive found some LaserMax equivalent laminate, its about 60% cheaper but theres a minimum order of 5 sheets. As well as that im going to order some 3mm acrylic (again in bulk) .

Im not planning on competing with Glider at this point. This is more a cutting service, you want it cut, ill cut it - and cheap. Im going to be buying the stuff anyway so its an oppurtunity for you .

Kubi · April 29, 2014

hi Devon,

i am definitely interested. my building stucks since a couple month, but i still need some panels.

Jimbo · April 29, 2014

I'd be interested. Am working on a couple of designs at the moment that may need a cleaner cut than I can do on mu cnc.

NeilWillis · April 29, 2014

If you have patterns for all the panels in the A10C cockpit, I'd be interested in a set.

Any idea of the cost of said items?

Cali · April 29, 2014

Devon, you might want to post your location.

Devon Custard · April 29, 2014

UK, Surrey,

As for panels. I could cut reactor ones panels from his PDF. But that's not going to work if you don't use the exact parts. I could take your money and cut the panels but I think it would be a waste of your money. Much better that you take the design, make sure you can work it with your parts and then let me know. Not putting you off but I've been there very recently and I know how much designs may need to he adjusted.

I have my own plans but I'm working thru each panel one by one. I have CMSP / UFC / CDU pretty much figured out and I'm starting on the rest. Btw I'll be sharing the link to my plans in the next day or so. Feel free to have a look and use.

Devon Custard · April 29, 2014

As for cost I'm just working out if there's enough interest. I'll be PMing those that show interest to talk about what they want.

Boltz · April 29, 2014

Hi DC. I'm interested in a full set of panels.

don_sangria · April 29, 2014

Hi DC!

I would also be interrested in laser cutting service, but just have to mention that i go for a blackshark pit and my skills for creating panels are not yet existing, so this might take some weeks, months (hopefully not years)...

just to announce my interrests...

Best Regards

Adrian

doveman · April 30, 2014

I'd be very interested DC. I'm planning to make some panels for my Dad and was wondering how to get them looking nice without spending a fortune, so it will be fantastic if I could pay you to laser cut and engrave them for me. I'm at the early stages of designing the panels at the moment, so it would probably be helpful to know what format you'd need the design in so I can make sure I use the right software.

I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of my panels yet but they'll be around 200x200mm, maybe 200x300mm and I'll need at least two, maybe six if I'm going for multi-layered backlit ones but only the top layer will need to be engraved. Will you be able to paint the engraving as well so that they're basically ready to fit when I receive them? You've clearly got a good technique down from reading your other thread, so I would prefer you to do it rather than risk screwing them up myself!

I'll be needing some more panels in the fairly near future for myself as well but I probably won't have time to design those for a while yet.

Devon Custard · April 30, 2014

Im currently doing all my work in sketchup and then outputting it into DXF. Probably best if you send me sketchup files

1. Because sketchup is free. Google it.

2. So many versions of the DXF format all of which have variations that screw with the laser software. The export from sketchup ive got working pretty nicely.

I can work with anything you send that coreldraw can read so PDF/DXF/AI/PNG/SVG. But if you do that it will extend the time i have to work on it so a little more expensive.

Sure i can paint and engrave for you.

MacFevre · May 1, 2014

Well DC, you know my thoughts. ;)

Devon Custard · May 1, 2014

Well, i just took reactorone's CMSP pdf and turned it into a sketchup model. Nasty work trying to weld all the polylines into a laserable model. Took about 4-5 hours to do.

Running a first cut now. hoping to have the completed prototype done this weekend.

MacFevre · May 1, 2014

Just an idea, but have you thought about bezels? I know i could use a set of instrument panel bezels. Especially the main T, and a nice set of eng indicators would be nice, too.

Devon Custard · May 1, 2014

Not quite sure what you mean. The bed of the laser is a bit smaller than A3 so thats roughly the size that i can cut. If you can fit it in there ill cut it.

Trying to figure out the optimum size to fit as much onto a sheet in one go. A4 wastes a major chunk of the sheet.

Will probably buy the larger sheets when i decide to buy. Which will be this weekend i think. Time to dip my toe in the water and go for it. I used the list of switchs that was kindly supplied to buy a bulk order from digikey.

metalnwood · May 2, 2014

Why did you take the PDF and turn it in to a sketch up model to then take to the laser?

Doesn't your laser software take the pdf directly or can't you get some software to read the pdf and output a dxf from that? For someone else I think I used a couple of his files, including the cmsp and it only took a few minutes to get it ready.

One thing to note as I have seen it from other people, coreldraw can have rubbish dxf. When you say 'weld the polylines' is corel outputting lots of individual lines instead of arcs or bezier curves? I have seen cmc machines run slowly from coreldraw dxf's because it can generate some really strange files.

Edited May 2, 2014 by metalnwood

Devon Custard · May 2, 2014

The lasercut software doesnt import pdf, and to be honest the pdfs need cleaning up and adjusting for the components im using, i.e. the holes are too small. The pdfs arent optimised either, you might have 100 nodes where only 5 will do.

Also when you import the pdfs its a series of lines that arent joined together into a polygon. Means the laser can skip all over the place instead of following a nice smooth line. End result is that you get a lot of small cuts joined up which doesnt look as good.

Additionally some regions need to be engraved which requires a closed polygon, think paintfill. And then you have to mark those lines as engrave instead of cut.

I do the node "welding" in sketchup not Corel. I only use Corel as its DXF export isnt buggy. I simply load it and export it. When i find time ill probably write a macro and automate it.

The basic rule of thumb is that the more curves you have (DZUS cutouts and text) the more complicated it is.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Devon Custard

doveman · May 2, 2014

Im currently doing all my work in sketchup and then outputting it into DXF. Probably best if you send me sketchup files

1. Because sketchup is free. Google it.
2. So many versions of the DXF format all of which have variations that screw with the laser software. The export from sketchup ive got working pretty nicely.

I can work with anything you send that coreldraw can read so PDF/DXF/AI/PNG/SVG. But if you do that it will extend the time i have to work on it so a little more expensive.

Sure i can paint and engrave for you.

Thanks, that'll be great.

I've actually got Sketch already and have played around with it a bit to make rough 3D models but I've never tried it for panel layouts. To be honest, I've always struggled with it a bit but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually.

What would really help me is if you could share a basic Sketch template. I don't expect you to share the finished designs you've spent hours on but just a basic outline of a panel, showing the corner mounting holes and maybe one or two component holes with lettering will be a great starting point for me to then use as a guide when designing the panels for my Dad. If it doesn't display it in Sketch, information about what font and size you're using would be really useful as well.

Regarding DCS panels, I'd probably be interested in buying some standard A-10 (and KA-50 and UH-1H) panels, if you have a template for those, as soon as you're ready. Even if I won't have time to set them up for a while, having them will probably inspire and encourage me to get on with it :)

I'd only be looking to buy a few particular panels for now but I figured it would help you to recoup some of your investment sooner rather than later. I may want to design some custom generic panels I can use with multiple aircraft in the future but for now the standard ones will be something to start with.

Depending on price, I might want the full three layers for each panel, including the two custom ones for my Dad, so that they can be backlit but if I can't afford that, maybe I can get by with just the top panel attached to the base layer (maybe the base layer would need to be black, not clear, for this to work though, or maybe I could just use wood for the base layer) and backlight them like Hans Krohn has done here http://www.hanskrohn.com/BuildingTips/Backlit_Panels/Backlit.htm

Maybe it won't look quite as nice as doing it properly with three layers of acrylic but it looks pretty good from his pictures.

When you're ready, if you can provide a list of the parts your panels are designed around as well, that will be great and make it easier to order them, or look for alternatives with the same dimensions.

Devon Custard · May 2, 2014

CMSP sketch attached. Always said i would provide these to the community for free. Im not planning on gauging people for work im doing anyway.

Prototype cutout done. Just need to wire up the various components now. Also need to find some very fine grit paper to polish off the tap layer to remove paint smudges. When i lasermax that shouldnt be there....

cmsp.zip

Devon Custard · May 2, 2014

Thanks, that'll be great.

I've actually got Sketch already and have played around with it a bit to make rough 3D models but I've never tried it for panel layouts. To be honest, I've always struggled with it a bit but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually.

What would really help me is if you could share a basic Sketch template. I don't expect you to share the finished designs you've spent hours on but just a basic outline of a panel, showing the corner mounting holes and maybe one or two component holes with lettering will be a great starting point for me to then use as a guide when designing the panels for my Dad. If it doesn't display it in Sketch, information about what font and size you're using would be really useful as well.

Regarding DCS panels, I'd probably be interested in buying some standard A-10 (and KA-50 and UH-1H) panels, if you have a template for those, as soon as you're ready. Even if I won't have time to set them up for a while, having them will probably inspire and encourage me to get on with it :)

I'd only be looking to buy a few particular panels for now but I figured it would help you to recoup some of your investment sooner rather than later. I may want to design some custom generic panels I can use with multiple aircraft in the future but for now the standard ones will be something to start with.

Depending on price, I might want the full three layers for each panel, including the two custom ones for my Dad, so that they can be backlit but if I can't afford that, maybe I can get by with just the top panel attached to the base layer (maybe the base layer would need to be black, not clear, for this to work though, or maybe I could just use wood for the base layer) and backlight them like Hans Krohn has done here http://www.hanskrohn.com/BuildingTips/Backlit_Panels/Backlit.htm

Maybe it won't look quite as nice as doing it properly with three layers of acrylic but it looks pretty good from his pictures.

When you're ready, if you can provide a list of the parts your panels are designed around as well, that will be great and make it easier to order them, or look for alternatives with the same dimensions.

See my recent post. i included the CMSP sketch i did.

Things to bear in mind.

I cut using 3mm acrylic or 1.5mm engraving laminate (thats the top layer that will allow me to do fine engraving without having to mess around with paint)

Measure your components and ensure you leave enough space for nuts / washers.

Ideally you want at least 2.5 mm between cut edges. Otherwise the acrylic warps or snaps when detaching the cut pieces. Really important to think about this for buttons if you are using the old method of using a shoulder on the underside of the button. 10mm square on the top layer is 12mm square on the bottom layer if youre using a 1mm shoulder.

Make sure you have holes for bolts/screws etc and that they line up.

The laser has an effective burn width of 1mm on the top of the substrate your cutting through. At the bottom its not. Theres a slight slant. This is called the kerf. Basically when you stack layers on top of one another they dont line up straight as each layer as mentioned has that curve. You may want to sand that down to get a smooth edge.

Glueing acrylic can be a nightmare. I recommend using EMA Plastic Weld(get it from Amazon). Also recommend you line everything up and then bolt thru to hold your layers in place before you apply. Then triple check everything as it really does WELD the plastic together.

doveman · May 2, 2014

CMSP sketch attached. Always said i would provide these to the community for free. Im not planning on gauging people for work im doing anyway.

Good man DC, thanks for that and for the tips in your other post. Will help me a lot :thumbup:

Your prototype's looking great as well, looking forward to having one of my own :)

Regarding glueing the layers together, if I've understood correctly the components are fixed to the base layer with their nuts, so I presume you just glue the top and middle layers, not the base layer as well and the bolts hold the top/middle and base layers together, as you'd need to separate them to get to the nuts to replace any faulty switches? Or have I misunderstood?

MacFevre · May 2, 2014

DC, PM'd you. (email actually)

Devon Custard · May 2, 2014

Good man DC, thanks for that and for the tips in your other post. Will help me a lot :thumbup:

Your prototype's looking great as well, looking forward to having one of my own :)

Regarding glueing the layers together, if I've understood correctly the components are fixed to the base layer with their nuts, so I presume you just glue the top and middle layers, not the base layer as well and the bolts hold the top/middle and base layers together, as you'd need to separate them to get to the nuts to replace any faulty switches? Or have I misunderstood?

tbh whichever way works for you. at present i glue the base and middle layers together because im going to use those to mount the switches and rotaries etc.

The top layer (because i forsee it being replaceable when its get damaged or scratched or i need to remove/replace/adjust a toggle switch i simply place on top of the glued layers and then bolt through.

Any last components i.e. tactiles/arduino/leds will sit on a matrix board under the base layer and will attach to the bolts that come thru.

metalnwood · May 3, 2014

The lasercut software doesnt import pdf, and to be honest the pdfs need cleaning up and adjusting for the components im using, i.e. the holes are too small. The pdfs arent optimised either, you might have 100 nodes where only 5 will do.

Also when you import the pdfs its a series of lines that arent joined together into a polygon. Means the laser can skip all over the place instead of following a nice smooth line. End result is that you get a lot of small cuts joined up which doesnt look as good.

Additionally some regions need to be engraved which requires a closed polygon, think paintfill. And then you have to mark those lines as engrave instead of cut.

I do the node "welding" in sketchup not Corel. I only use Corel as its DXF export isnt buggy. I simply load it and export it. When i find time ill probably write a macro and automate it.

The basic rule of thumb is that the more curves you have (DZUS cutouts and text) the more complicated it is.

Yikes, that sounds terrible. If you want to I can export clean ones for you, the software I use will import those pdfs and give you perfect DXF's, no trouble at all. I don't mind spending 15 minutes doing the files you want to work with if it's gone to take you that long per file.

My machine is also running lasercut, I don't do any design in it I just load up the dxf from my other software.

pm me if interested and I will give you an email for where to send the files you want done. As I say, if it's going to save you hours then I will do it for you.

Devon Custard · May 3, 2014

Is your laser using a leetro microcontroller then? Nice, got someone i can bounce ideas off :)

I think my "problem" is that part of my process is the need to visualise it in 3d so that i can place and plan where the components go. It takes long because normally i convert something cut it, assemble and find out that the parts are in the wrong place or are too close together or in fact ive missed one set of cuts completely and then i have to go back and juggle.

Getting the DXF into sketchup and making it viable in there is the slow part, (and im thinking it would be easier to use something like solidworks but not everyone can access that and SU is free).

Dont you find with lasercut that you have to unite lines? And then remove the duplicate nodes?

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