Upgrading the PC core

[Griffin]

I think I'm having enough of my old Q9550 rig which isn't enough for modern games even overclocked and I even had to reduce the overclock considerably due to skyrocketing temperatures. Seems like the CPU just got enough of the years running overclocked.

 

So I need a new core for my PC ie. CPU, MoBo and RAM.

 

Choosing the CPU seems quite easy as Tom's Hardware gives the best for the buck, right now being the Intel Core i5-4670K in the 200€ range.

 

RAM is the second easiest. It should also allow basic overclocking, nothing too fiddly, so I think Kingston HyperX series RAM will have enough headroom while being affordable.

 

Choosing a motherboard seems like the most difficult part as there are millions of options to choose from. This is where I need help. Let's say my budget is 150€ and it should allow basic overclocking.

 

Questions regarding the above:

 

- Is the i5 CPU still modern enough with a socket that will live on for a while? Or should I wait for some new technology to be released as I'm not in a particular hurry and ignorant of the current developments.

 

- Is 8GB of RAM still enough for sims (DCS, IL-2 BOS) or should I get 16GB?

 

 

The i5-4670K has a bit lower Thermal Design Power than the Q9550 so I think my Antec Kuhler 620 cooler will suffice at least for the time being before I start overclocking at a later time.

[Rangi]

Sounds like your on the right track. I have been reading up on an upgrade and yes the 4670K is best bang for buck at the moment. 8GB ram is plenty for dcs (not sure if that will change with EDGE). Most 150 euro mother boards (Z87 chipset) will be fine,my personal preference is MSI G45 gaming but you cant go wrong with any gigabyte, asus or asrock in the same price range. Dont hold your breath for any new processors as there is not much coming in the near future (next 3-4 months) and when they do they will have a high price penalty for early adopters. I plan on waiting for EDGE and see if others with this system are getting good fps. I would have thought in Finland you wouldnt even need a cooler, maybe just a vent to the outside (joking).

 

ps. I am no expert but this is my take on the upgrade dilema, maybe someone more knowledgeable like Skatezilla could help us out.

[Griffin]

Dont hold your breath for any new processors as there is not much coming in the near future (next 3-4 months) and when they do they will have a high price penalty for early adopters.

That's true but do you think they will still have the same socket? I wouldn't want to buy a core that can't be upgraded with a new CPU in a couple of years if need be.

I would have thought in Finland you wouldnt even need a cooler, maybe just a vent to the outside (joking).

I've actually dreamt of the balcony air intake but it's not possible in our current room arrangement. It would also bring problems with filtering the air and condensation/carburetor icing. ;)

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Keep in mind that haswell's run pretty hot just like ivy's

 

You're gonna need a bigger boat if you going to overclock .

 

For 80 dollars you can have a very clean and super easy watercooling system (corsair H80i just to name one) , idle temps will be about the same as that air cooler of yours, but when the voltage is increased, so will the efficiency of a watercooling system.

 

edit* sorry nevermind, just looked up your "kuhler", it's a watercooling and comparable to corsair H80i or Corsair H100 .

[Rangi]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/9-series-broadwell-k-intel,24767.html

 

Sounds like they fit in 1150 socket but you need a new chipset so new motherboard anyway, but nothing is confirmed until it releases. So unless you want to wait a year and pay top dollar the 4670K is the only way to go as I see it.....

[Griffin]

Thanks Rangi. This is important information and I'll go on from this base if I still have enthusiasm to upgrade a couple of weeks from now.

 

Thanks for contributing anyway Maximus. My Kuhler will definitely have to step aside if I decide to overclock properly.

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Don't think so , i think that cooler will do fine for a sane voltage (somewhere up to 1.35 Volt) overclock

[SkateZilla]

Do you really have to stick to Intel? I've built at least 2 dozen AMD systems for people with no complaints.

 

AMD Boards and CPU Prices are dropping like bricks a 990FX Board + A FX83xx CPU would be like $300-$350 USD

 

At this point you can prolly get a FX8320, which is cheaper and easily over clock it from 3.5 to 4.5+ Ghz.

Due to the fact that the Pile Driver architecture and Manufacturing process has been tuned to the point where the yields are simply used to fill a bin in a performance order when binned.

(So they bin the FX9xxx Series first then fill in the 8350s, then the 8320s, then move down the line.)

a FX8320 can easily hit 8350 speeds.

 

pretty sure the 5 Ghz 9590s are on ebay for like $220 now.

 

That being Said.. Going back to you Mainboard Selection

Choose VERY Wisely.

 

For gaming/light overclocking,:

- do NOT buy any budget/entry level boards.

Reasoning for this is simple, budget boards have cheaper components, smaller VRM Arrays, Weaker ones, and Weaker NB/SB Chipsets,

Simply put if you dropped a Performance level CPU into a Budget board and tried to overclock, you'll run into issues with stability and power.

 

 

 

 

 

As for RAM, DDR3 has almost tripled in price in the last 2 years...

an 8GB Set for Gaming will set you back nearly $80, I paid $75 for 16 GB Sets i built in 2012/2013, the same sets have jumped to $170 USD

Edited May 2, 2014 by SkateZilla

[Griffin]

Don't think so , i think that cooler will do fine for a sane voltage (somewhere up to 1.35 Volt) overclock

I sure hope it does. It would save me a long penny! Pardon my Finnish.

 

Here's a preliminary Intel kit. I'll check out what AMD has to offer thanks to SkateZilla for making this difficult. ;)

 

MSI Z87-G45 Gaming Which fits the budget just well. 130€

 

Intel Core i5-4670K For being the best bang for buck according to THW. 204€

 

Kingston HyperX Genesis 8GB 1600MHz CL9 XMP I assume getting higher frequency RAM will not benefit me really. I hope these take basic overclocking well when I decide to do it in the future. 80€

 

= 414€

[Maximus_Lazarus]

good, sli/crossfire board . Can't hurt, you never know :)

 

oh and for DCS, Intel is the better choice.

 

This goes for everything else to . ....

 

FLAME WARRRRRRRRRR

[lunaticfringe]

Haswell performance with overclocked RAM is negligible. You OC the processor, and get your RAM to default speed and leave it alone, unless you've got a lucky CPU and can eek out a bit more. The overhead on both sides has been found to be somewhat tied, meaning you can only really push one or the other. And in that case, you go with the CPU.

[Sorin]

Griffin,

I am running a CPU very similar with what you have, Q9450 overclocked at 3.9 GHz with water cooling. It works great for DCS, even with lots of pixels to be driven :)

 

What video card do you have? I have found that the GPU is the bottleneck in my configuration, in particular the VRAM. My next video card will have 4GB or more.

 

Also how many monitors you use and what resolutions?

[Griffin]

Thanks for clearing it up lunatic.

 

I have Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 Windforce 2GB so I think it should suffice for now. I'm running only one monitor 1680 wide.

The CPU can't take the OC anymore as the temperature rockets up. I think it's getting old and it's time for a new core.

 

Do you think the preliminary Intel kit could handle Oculus Rift with the HD7870?

Edited May 2, 2014 by Griffin

[SkateZilla]

Thanks for clearing it up lunatic.

 

I have Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 Windforce 2GB so I think it should suffice for now. I'm running only one monitor 1680 wide.

The CPU can't take the OC anymore as the temperature rockets up. I think it's getting old and it's time for a new core.

 

Do you think the preliminary Intel kit could handle Oculus Rift with the HD7870?

 

Create a custom Monitor Config to Run 2 Viewports at 960x1080 each on a single screen ... and it should give you a general idea.

[hitman]

Keep in mind that haswell's run pretty hot just like ivy's

 

You're gonna need a bigger boat if you going to overclock .

 

For 80 dollars you can have a very clean and super easy watercooling system (corsair H80i just to name one) , idle temps will be about the same as that air cooler of yours, but when the voltage is increased, so will the efficiency of a watercooling system.

 

edit* sorry nevermind, just looked up your "kuhler", it's a watercooling and comparable to corsair H80i or Corsair H100 .

Thats not true. You can get a decent overclock on air. I have a Cooler Master n520, and it keeps my overclock under 70c with a load @ 1.285v.

[hitman]

As for RAM, I just "happen" to have some Corsair Vengeance DDR3 16gb pc12800 modules for sale (4x4gb). I just upgraded to 2133mhz 8gb modules last week. If you want some, I can sell them to you for cheap.

[lunaticfringe]

My 4770k with air cooling (Prolimatech Megahalems with two of their Vortex blowers) will do 4.5 in the mid 60s with 1.26v, and 4.7, like Hitman, with 1.28v high 60s. However, I didn't find actual value in that 200mhz difference in my usage, and preferred the lower overclock because I don't like having to be lead around by ambient fluctuations all the time.

 

RONCO overlock: "Set it and forget it!"

[Griffin]

Do you really have to stick to Intel? I've built at least 2 dozen AMD systems for people with no complaints.

 

The AMD front sure looks very tempting with the lower prices. But isn't that because they are older than the Intel counterparts? Is there some new AMD technology right around the corner? I know it'll cost more when it's out.

 

AMD seems to have some drawbacks mainly because of the 50% higher power consumption. What I would save in the CPU/MoBo price, I would have to use for a new cooler.

That's due to the eight cores vs four I suppose. Besides, more cores won't help me in games currently especially in DCS.

 

I'm sure theyr'e great chips but there is some evidence that gives Intel the edge and with a new cooler, the price difference is non-existent.

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/443/AMD_FX-Series_FX-8320_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-4670K.html

[Sorin]

The AMD front sure looks very tempting with the lower prices. But isn't that because they are older than the Intel counterparts? Is there some new AMD technology right around the corner? I know it'll cost more when it's out.

 

AMD seems to have some drawbacks mainly because of the 50% higher power consumption. What I would save in the CPU/MoBo price, I would have to use for a new cooler.

That's due to the eight cores vs four I suppose. Besides, more cores won't help me in games currently especially in DCS.

 

I'm sure theyr'e great chips but there is some evidence that gives Intel the edge and with a new cooler, the price difference is non-existent.

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/443/AMD_FX-Series_FX-8320_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-4670K.html

 

From that link: "The Intel i5-4670K is 69% faster in single-threaded programs."

I think it will take a long time for AMD to compete with Intel on high end again...

[Griffin]

According to THIS and THIS article, the Z97 boards will be compatible with 4th generation CPU's meaning that I should probably wait for a couple of weeks and get one of those, MSI Z97 Gaming 5 to be exact.

It will cost a bit more but in a couple of years I could easily upgrade to a Z97 CPU.

From that link: "The Intel i5-4670K is 69% faster in single-threaded programs."

I think it will take a long time for AMD to compete with Intel on high end again...

It's not really so black and white but gives some idea. In some cases the 8320 does beat the Intel but overall Intel seems to win.

[camsr]

AMDs are fine for concurrent computing (aka multi-threading), maybe not the fastest, but they put all the cores to work. In that type of super-computing deal, price is a bigger selling point usually. TDP and single thread performance are superior in most Intel chips, two very important factors.

 

My q9450 is OCed to 3.2 with ddr2 800, it's always stable too. This one was a real diamond in the rough of Intel offerings, large L2 cache, no L3 cache (good because less latency that way), and easily clockable to q9650 speed. You didn't even have to buy a q9650 because the q9450 just bumps up so easily... it's kinda funny.

 

Newer Intel offerings don't even double it's performance yet, so stuff it, Moore's law :thumbup:

[Griffin]

Now I'm stuck on the motherboard selection. It's hard to compare them since there are literally a million of them and the problem with the Z97 is that there are not many reviews yet.

I'm basically down to three candidates.

 

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5

 

MSI Z97 Gaming 5

 

Asus Maximus VII Ranger

 

The MSI and GB are around the same 150€ price and very similar to each other. Very hard to choose between the two. I've read before that GB uses superior VRM components but I'm not sure if I'll notice anything with my basic overclocks.

 

The Asus is 20€ more expensive but there is a nice looking bundle that would offer me a Kingston 120GB SSD with it! Sounds like a great deal but it has only 6 USB ports in the back and no SATA Express connector. Would I even need the SATAe?

It does seem to have the best software.

[hitman]

Now I'm stuck on the motherboard selection. It's hard to compare them since there are literally a million of them and the problem with the Z97 is that there are not many reviews yet.

I'm basically down to three candidates.

 

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5

 

MSI Z97 Gaming 5

 

Asus Maximus VII Ranger

 

The MSI and GB are around the same 150€ price and very similar to each other. Very hard to choose between the two. I've read before that GB uses superior VRM components but I'm not sure if I'll notice anything with my basic overclocks.

 

The Asus is 20€ more expensive but there is a nice looking bundle that would offer me a Kingston 120GB SSD with it! Sounds like a great deal but it has only 6 USB ports in the back and no SATA Express connector. Would I even need the SATAe?

It does seem to have the best software.

Not sure if eSATA is faster than USB 3.0, but its still pretty fast. You can get a USB 3.0 hub and get more functionality out of it. I bought a 10 port USB 3 hub off newegg a few months ago and havent looked back. Id go with the Asus and the extra SSD.

[cichlidfan]

I have owned 3 motherboards with eSATA and, other than one test, I have never used them. USB 3.0 ports, on the other hand, have come in very handy (especially since my newest phone supports it). Regarding the rear USB ports, get a hub or add some internal expansion. Most ASUS boards have three open USB 2.0 headers (six more ports).

 

Other than that, buy the ASUS.

 

Though I could not find a manual in english, that ASUS board has lots of both USB3 and 2 expansion on the motherboard.

 

Intel® Z97 chipset : *3

6 x USB 3.0 port(s) (4 at back panel, blue, 2 at mid-board)

Intel® Z97 chipset :

7 x USB 2.0 port(s) (2 at back panel, , 5 at mid-board)

Edited May 14, 2014 by cichlidfan

[Griffin]

Ok thanks guys for quick replies. I'll think about it for a little while. I wouldn't really even consider the Asus without the SSD bundle. It does come to real use because I'm left with 30GB of SSD space currently. Less connectivity for more price and some funny and useless features driving the price up. However a review from today gives it an excellent rating in overclocking. I hope they didn't skimp on the VRM quality too much to bring the price down.