SU-35 vs F-22

[Falcon_S]

It's got another 30 pages at least...

 

So, let`s go... :)

 

Colonel Nikolay Baranov, a former Su-27 pilot, was interviewed on Russia Today on May 21, 2007. Baranov was asked about Russia's response to the US carrying out a gradual replacement of its F-15s with the new F-22 fighters. Baranov said that "Russia’s response to it already exists and we have talked about such aircraft as Su-30 and Su-35. These models also have “stealth” elements. If we compare F-22 with Su-27, “Raptor”, as F-22 is called in the U.S., often outperforms Su-27, but Su-30 and Su-35 surmount F-22, in their turn, even in terms of “stealth” elements. As you remember, it is “stealth” technology, which distinguishes F-22 from its predecessor, F-15, but almost all radars in Russia can easily find F-22. Thus, I think money spend on modernisation of F-15 were just thrown away. As far as avionics are concerned, Su-30 and Su-35 can compete with F-22 anywhere in every situation. For instance, Major General Kharchevsky have conducted 8 mock air combats in the U.S. and won all of them."

 

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-35s.htm

[hitman]

One of these days, people will look back on this thread and realize how stupid it is. From the great words of Captain Camparelli - "5th generation mafia, sir".

[hitman]

So, let`s go... :)

 

Colonel Nikolay Baranov, a former Su-27 pilot, was interviewed on Russia Today on May 21, 2007. Baranov was asked about Russia's response to the US carrying out a gradual replacement of its F-15s with the new F-22 fighters. Baranov said that "Russia’s response to it already exists and we have talked about such aircraft as Su-30 and Su-35. These models also have “stealth” elements. If we compare F-22 with Su-27, “Raptor”, as F-22 is called in the U.S., often outperforms Su-27, but Su-30 and Su-35 surmount F-22, in their turn, even in terms of “stealth” elements. As you remember, it is “stealth” technology, which distinguishes F-22 from its predecessor, F-15, but almost all radars in Russia can easily find F-22. Thus, I think money spend on modernisation of F-15 were just thrown away. As far as avionics are concerned, Su-30 and Su-35 can compete with F-22 anywhere in every situation. For instance, Major General Kharchevsky have conducted 8 mock air combats in the U.S. and won all of them."

 

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-35s.htm

If you take anything seriously on Global Security, then you should find the time to go see a psychologist. Seriously...

[TAW_Blaze]

almost all radars in Russia can easily find F-22.

 

:megalol:

[nscode]

In a defense situation, why would you go against F-22 with your top dog anyway? A combination of MiG-21 drones and MiG-25 would be my choice. Or just MiG-21s. I bet there are more of them than operational deployable amraams anyway.

[Invader ZIM]

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/logistics_material_readiness/acq_bud_fin/SARs/DEC%202011%20SAR/AMRAAM%20-%20SAR%20-%2031%20DEC%202011.pdf

 

Page 42 of the document, do you have enough older migs and Su's to soak up the 2011 figures of 9861 Aim-120 missiles, with more on the way and upgraded ones since then?

 

Boy, hate to admit it, but Stalin was right, when you have high technology, and can mass produce it, the quantity is a quality all it's own.

[TAW_Blaze]

Do you have and can you afford to have enough trained pilots to drive all of them?

 

For them this is a suicide mission and we're not in the soviet union anymore. Guess who's going to sign up for a job like that. Also, it'd take a lot of investment to bring those planes back to flyable condition. If you want to make drones out of them, you still need a massive crew, and even more money.

[GGTharos]

That's wrong. F-22's have no issues with rain, humidity, desert, or snow.

 

They are deployed in Elmendorf - very cold place.

They are deployed in Okinawa and Guam - Humid, Rainy

They are deployed in Saudi - desert

 

Additional maintenance for RCS performance is part for the course for ay aircraft, and the F-22 and F-35 have by far easier maintenance and more care-free maintenance of the RCS performance than F-117 and B-2.

 

And, guess what? J-20, J-31, PAK-FA will be subject to the exact same maintenance. It's funny how you want to rail against F-22, yet everyone in the real world wants to copy it. I guess they just want to waste money on a useless stealth plane :)

 

Thats right.You can add complicated and expesive maintance of the F 22,wich "paint job" is not water resistance.So,it is suny day fighter plane.

[Invader ZIM]

The F-22 seems to be benefiting from lessons learned, and even getting upgrades from the F-35 in regards to some of the stealth coating materials.

 

http://www.dailytech.com/F35+Stealth+Coatings+Applied+to+F22/article21321.htm

 

The F-22 and the F-35 are similar in that they are both fighter aircraft that are designed from the outset to have stealth characteristics to make them harder to see by enemy radar. With the F-35 being the newer aircraft, it has more advanced radar-absorbing coatings on the surface than the F-22. Lockheed has announced that it is now integrating some of the more advanced coatings the F-35 uses onto the F-22 fighters coming of the assembly line.

 

"Some of the [low observables] coatings system and gap-fillers that the F-35 had an advantage on, we have incorporated into the Raptor," said Jeff Babione, vice president and general manager of the F-22 program for Lockheed Martin.

 

Defense News reports that Babione claims that the new coatings don’t change the radar cross section of the F-22. The coatings according to Babione are simply to reduce maintenance costs. He said, "[The F-35 program] had some more robust materials that were more durable and we were able to pull those back on to the F-22. So our system is better, and the life-cycle cost of the F-22 is reduced."

- See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/F35+Stealth+Coatings+Applied+to+F22/article21321.htm#sthash.mj08030a.dpuf

 

However, some doubt that the new coatings won't improve the radar visibility of the F-22. Goure also noted, "I would be very surprised if this wasn't an improvement in stealth characteristics."

 

Lockheed had to make some changes to the coatings to be used on the F-22 that the F-35 didn’t require. Goure said, "It's [the F-22] operating at a higher altitude typically and [at] faster speeds, and that would put different stresses on the material."

 

The only F-22 fighters that are using the new coating for now are the most recent Lot 9 aircraft and other new and improved materials are still in the final qualification phase. Lockheed hopes to roll the coatings out to the entire fleet next year. At that point, all existing aircraft will be retrofitted with the new coating. - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/F35+Stealth+Coatings+Applied+to+F22/article21321.htm#sthash.mj08030a.dpuf

 

Looks like that training article I posted earlier was true, the F-22 is going to "Be all it can be."

[Falcon_S]

If you take anything seriously on Global Security, then you should find the time to go see a psychologist. Seriously...

 

According to experts, the analysis of the executed amount of works allows to draw already today a conclusion that the potential characteristics put in the plane will allow to surpass all tactical fighters of generation 4 and 4 + (the Rafale and EF 2000 type, the upgraded fighters of the F-15, F-16, F-18 and Mirage 2000 type) and to counteract the F-22A plane, and also the tactical fighter F-35A.

 

Source: my psychologist

[GGTharos]

If he's talking about PAK-FA, ok. If he's talking about Su-30/35, he's lying. Plain and simple. The man's job is to generate sales.

 

According to experts, the analysis of the executed amount of works allows to draw already today a conclusion that the potential characteristics put in the plane will allow to surpass all tactical fighters of generation 4 and 4 + (the Rafale and EF 2000 type, the upgraded fighters of the F-15, F-16, F-18 and Mirage 2000 type) and to counteract the F-22A plane, and also the tactical fighter F-35A.

 

Source: my psychologist

[ФрогФут]

If we are talking about the PAK FA, it is also stealthy, but how would it and F-22 find each other, if both can get to the enemy unnoticed? Back to the ages of visual search?:)

[hitman]

According to experts, the analysis of the executed amount of works allows to draw already today a conclusion that the potential characteristics put in the plane will allow to surpass all tactical fighters of generation 4 and 4 + (the Rafale and EF 2000 type, the upgraded fighters of the F-15, F-16, F-18 and Mirage 2000 type) and to counteract the F-22A plane, and also the tactical fighter F-35A.

 

Source: my psychologist

Ive taken a few years of english, and have been reading since I was 3. I did not understand a damn thing about this analysis. What, exactly, is the objective here? Your psychologist needs to learn language skills first..but of course, the Russians can say anything about their product first. On paper, it may look impressive. In reality, its about a 20% chance -if that- that one of your vaunted Su-30s would even get within range -much less see first- to score a kill against a stealth aircraft. Over the course of 30 years, only 1 stealth aircraft has been shot down. Statistics tell me a whole different story compared to your analysis.

Edited May 19, 2014 by hitman

[Invader ZIM]

Huyck pointed out that F-22s fighting F-22s is like two blindfolded boxers feeling around for each other, trying to land a lucky blow. It’s not especially useful training.

 

However, going by the basic rules of VLO stealth outlined here: http://www.harpoonhq.com/waypoint/articles/Article_021.pdf

 

 

 

The T-50 isn't adhering to all of them, so I would think it's a little more detectable than the F-22 would be.

 

 

Stuff sticking out from the airframe, even from the front aspect already breaks the rules outlined in the waypoint article for VLO.

[GGTharos]

I think that question right now can only be answered by the guys who fly F-22's or against them, and they aren't talking :)

 

If we are talking about the PAK FA, it is also stealthy, but how would it and F-22 find each other, if both can get to the enemy unnoticed? Back to the ages of visual search?:)

[USARStarkey]

I think that question right now can only be answered by the guys who fly F-22's or against them, and they aren't talking :)

 

F-22 pilots in training scenarios vs F-22's have said it was like blind men trying to kill each other.

 

On a more speculative note, I read an analysis of the PAK-FA's design awhile back that indicated that its RCS would be even larger than the F-35s.

[Cali]

That's wrong. F-22's have no issues with rain, humidity, desert, or snow.

 

They are deployed in Elmendorf - very cold place.

They are deployed in Okinawa and Guam - Humid, Rainy

They are deployed in Saudi - desert

 

They aren't deployed in Elmendorf, they are permanently stationed there.

[NineLine]

As far as counts go, I dont think that it matters that much, Frogfoot said that there are not any Su-35s in any real service currently... but if tomorrow WWIII kicks off, you would see production kick into high gear on both sides and this would probably be a non-issue.

 

Someone also compared the 262 as well, and this was an issue of numbers, not only in aircraft but in pilots. Had the 262 come along earlier in the war, or even before it started, it could have had a much bigger impact, as it was, it was too green to make a big difference. Could you imagine if the 262 had the same time allotted to development that other German aircraft had? I could have been pretty impressive... as it was... it was too little too late.

 

Of course the 262 is a lesson in development before you need it. But now I am drifting waaaay off topic :)

 

FINE ENOUGH. Since you are clearly incapable of listening to reason and disregard all information that doesn't support your hypothesis-----HERE are some irrefutable facts:

 

THERE are 35 Su-35 in Russian service. There are only about 40 ever produced.

 

THERE are 187 Raptors in US service.

 

End result? There are so few Su-35s in existence that they may as well be considered not to exist relatively speaking. EVEN IF you were right about the drivel you have been spouting for that last 28 pages, which you are most assuredly not, the number of Su-35's in existence makes the aircraft completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

 

In summary: Who gives a hoot.

[USARStarkey]

I agree that in event of ww3 there is a lot of truth to that statement regarding increased production. However, a great deal hinges on how long the war goes. What you start a war with is extremely important, if not, then everyone would just make prototypes and never waste money on actual production.

[NineLine]

I agree that in event of ww3 there is a lot of truth to that statement regarding increased production. However, a great deal hinges on how long the war goes. What you start a war with is extremely important, if not, then everyone would just make prototypes and never waste money on actual production.

 

Of course, but the F-22 is a perfect example... you dont think that the US couldnt start pumping out those a lot faster if the need arose... I think it wouldnt be an issue...

 

I am sure the same goes for the Russians... although an aircraft that is mid-development, that would be a different story... Its not WWII where you can just convert a car factory over to aircraft :)

[USARStarkey]

No I totally agree. But, it depends on how long the fight is. What you start a fight with is important. Otherwise there would be no point In having a military at all, we could just eyeball each other with our GDP's.

[hitman]

Of course, but the F-22 is a perfect example... you dont think that the US couldnt start pumping out those a lot faster if the need arose... I think it wouldnt be an issue...

 

I am sure the same goes for the Russians... although an aircraft that is mid-development, that would be a different story... Its not WWII where you can just convert a car factory over to aircraft :)

They tore down the assembly lines for the F-22. The tooling has been disassembled and placed in storage. The planes arent made in just one location either. It would take nothing short of a miracle to bring the line back up to speed within a year...not to mention they are in the process of demilitarizing spare canopies for the F-22. If anything, the F-16 would be called upon to be built en-masse first.

[NineLine]

Less red tape during wartimes... things move faster... not saying it would happen over night, and sure, they dont need the F-22s tomorrow... but they could get them up and producing faster than peace times...

[hitman]

Less red tape during wartimes... things move faster... not saying it would happen over night, and sure, they dont need the F-22s tomorrow... but they could get them up and producing faster than peace times...

Its not so much red tape as logistics. The center wing of the F-22 was built in Everett, WA. at the boeing plant, while the wings and other stuff were put together at Ft Worth. The cockpit was built, and the ships were assembled here at Plant 6. Logistical nightmare :cry:

[USARStarkey]

Moving away from stealth, does anyone know if the su35 can super-cruise while carrying a full load of AAM's