Need a little advise on a simple project

[the_soupdragon]

Hi guys I'm hoping some of you cockpit genius's(genii)??? can help me with a simple home electronics project I would like to attempt.

I am looking to build a button/rotary box (maybe 2 or 3 rotaries a bunch of toggle switches and maybe some push buttons.

But I haven't a clue when it comes to electronics and what to buy. I do not want to go out and spend a fortune on this stuff I just want to build a simple box.

So with that in mind could some of you point me in the direction of which controller I would need and the best place to purchase buttons and switches, bearing in mid that I am in the UK.

 

Thanks

 

SD

[Warhog]

You will need to do some reading first.

 

Start with this

http://deadfrogstudios.com/warthogpit/index.php?title=Building_a_Custom_A-10_Panel_Using_a_GP-Wiz40

 

It will answer most of your questions.

 

The wiki site I have linked above is where all information regarding cockpit building is now being sent to.

[the_soupdragon]

Thanks warthog.

 

SD

[the_soupdragon]

Anyone know of a similar control board to the GP-Wiz sold in the UK? The Leo bodnar boards a really expensive, so ideally I am looking for something in a similar price of the GP-Wiz.

I want to put at least 3 rotaries on there for trimming so what should I be looking for with regards to potentiometers They come in lots of different flavours and I am at a bit of a loss as to which type I would need, 10k, 2k........?????

 

Any help gratefully received.

 

Cheers

 

SD

Edited May 21, 2014 by the_soupdragon
speeeling

[Stevos758]

Look into Teensy boards. they have a built in USB Joystick Program.

 

Plug and play basically. $20 each.

 

I'll try and get a topic made in the DCS wiki the guys are working on. Missed the link above! Whoops. that should get you started.

 

Any Pot should work. I have used 10k on mine with good results.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Stevos758

[the_soupdragon]

Thanks for the reply mate, but to be honest the teensy looks a little bit too complicated and out of my league for my basic (read non-existent) electronics prowess :)

I am looking for a sort of plug and play option like the one in the wiki.

Postage is a real killer on buying from the states.

 

Thanks for the advice regarding the pots. So it really doesn't matter what type I use? As an aside. does the k(sic) figure have any bearing on the pots accuracy? I mean is a 50k pot more accurate than a 2k pot?

 

Cheers

 

SD

Edited May 21, 2014 by the_soupdragon

[Stevos758]

Thats the thing.

 

You just plug it into your computer and open the arduino software and select Joystick..

 

It then is pre loaded with 16 switches and 6 axis for you to just solder your components on and you are good to go.

 

https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_joystick.html

 

It's rather simple. But with a little more you can have more options like with the arduino mega.

 

As far as the pots go... yes and no.

 

The arduinos can only use so much resolution any way. Someone may come along and give you the technical explanation.

 

Technically yes it will be more accurate but you prob wont notice and the board cant really use that much res anyway. They will work though at a greater cost.

 

If you want plug and play no hassle just get a leo bodnar. You wont be dissapointed.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Stevos758

[the_soupdragon]

Thanks Stevos.

I may try the teensy option just to cut my teeth on anyway. As its the cheaper option and I am not very good with electronics.

 

Which teensy board would you suggest I use? I can see at least 3 different ones.

 

Also a quick non related question. what is the difference between a potentiometer and a rotary encoder? Is it that the rotary is detented (ie it has x amount of physical positions whereas a pot just spins around.) Is that about right?

I only ask as some of these boards say that they support rotary's so I am presuming that they are connected to the board in a different way.

 

Sorry for all the questions but I am a total newb at this type of thing

 

Your help has been Much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

SD

[Stevos758]

Teensy 3.1 or the 2.0 ++ depending on the amount of buttons you need. They are only $20 os it's not much to mess around with one. I suggest getting the one with pins and getting a solderless breadboard for experimenting.

 

Here you can see my teensy 2.0 experiment. Ignore the arduino in the vid. That was just attached to the breadboard mount I made for it.

 

 

You can see the teensy 2.0 in the middle of the breadboard there.

 

http://www.amazon.com/hacktronics-Solderless-Breadboard/dp/B001M0KGME

 

I have yet to get an encoder working on the teensy. I know it can be done but have not had time to mess with it. I almost had it working I just haven't come to grasp the whole programming thing yet. I've used pots and switches no problem.

 

 

 

Yes the rotary encoders have the "click" positions. I believe most have infinite turns both ways in most cases.

[Warhog]

When you turn a rotary encoder you feel the detents as you turn it. Each time you feel it, it sends a pulse to the board which then sends it to the simulator/game. Its as if you had just pressed a momentary on button. Turning it non stop is like rapidly pressing a button.

 

Now if you turn it in one direction it's like it presses, lets say, button 1. Turning in the opposite direction makes it press button 2. That's a simplistic description but its a good analogy for now. So knowing that, just go to the options page, find the ILS channel and it will have an increase box and a decrease box for the frequency. You assign the button from a left turn of the rotary encoder to "Increase" and from a right turn of the rotary you assign that button number to "decrease". That will now let you change the frequency. You can do that with any of the functions in DCS that have an up/down set of boxes or a increase/decrease set of boxes to assign button pushes to.

 

Pots work entirely different and unfortunately I can't give you a good explanation of them.

[Stevos758]

Most pots have a wire spool in them.

 

They are wound however many turns they say they are. It takes the input signal and limits the output resistance.

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-potentiometer.htm

[metalnwood]

Soupdragin, Leo is so close to you though! He has the BBI32 board for 20 pounds but requires soldering.

 

He also has the same one with no soldering required for 32 inputs. You can attach buttons and rotaries to it.

 

If you do not require pots then this is a good board with lots of inputs.

 

A rotary can turn infinitely in either direction end every time you turn it one increment it gives off the same as one button push. This is good for something like tuning a radio where each time you turn it a little you want the game to increment the freq up a notch. The majority of controls are rotary rather than requiring a pot.

 

 

 

Thanks Stevos.

I may try the teensy option just to cut my teeth on anyway. As its the cheaper option and I am not very good with electronics.

 

Which teensy board would you suggest I use? I can see at least 3 different ones.

 

Also a quick non related question. what is the difference between a potentiometer and a rotary encoder? Is it that the rotary is detented (ie it has x amount of physical positions whereas a pot just spins around.) Is that about right?

I only ask as some of these boards say that they support rotary's so I am presuming that they are connected to the board in a different way.

 

Sorry for all the questions but I am a total newb at this type of thing

 

Your help has been Much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

SD

[agrasyuk]

When you turn a rotary encoder you feel the detents as you turn it. Each time you feel it, it sends a pulse to the board which then sends it to the simulator/game. Its as if you had just pressed a momentary on button. Turning it non stop is like rapidly pressing a button.

 

Now if you turn it in one direction it's like it presses, lets say, button 1. Turning in the opposite direction makes it press button 2.

 

Not quite correct. encoders we use for pit building are mostly quadrature ones. Meaning that each detent two pulses will be send, its the direction of the turn that will determine order of pulses. I used very crude AutoIT script to translate those pulses into individual key presses.

[Sokol1_br]

Cheap?

 

(Arduino) Pro Micro Clones.

 

MMjoy firmware - write via USB cable. 6 axis, 36 buttons. (8/64 with Teensy 2.0).

 

Sokol1

[Warhog]

Here is an example of what you could start out with.

 

This is an incredibly BASIC set of panels I recently built. But more importantly a really easy set of panels to build. I wanted to easily adjust radio frequencies as well as Tacan/ILS frequencies on the fly so to speak.;) I didn't want to take my hand off the stick to use a mouse to adjust them them (I`m right handed) so I built these panels for each side of my monitor to help me with this.

 

It uses a Bodnar board, the BBI-32, 13 rotary encoders with 2 of them using the built in push button and four mom (on) push buttons. All 32 inputs of the BBI-32 are used. You need to fashion a panel face and enclosure and maybe back lighting but the basics are really easy and perfect for a first project. It doesn't get easier than this.

 

Everything beyond this requires some background in programming and electronics and you may get frustrated biting off more than you can chew at this point in time. Once you have built a functioning panel it will inspire you to undertake more complex projects. But for now start simple or you may get overwhelmed and give up.

 

As far as cost goes, be advised right now... cockpit building is an expensive proposition and there are no cheap ways out. You can maximize you purchasing power by ordering Chinese parts. That's a big savings. But overall it still expensive to do this stuff. I think the BBI-32 is one of the best least expensive idiot proof boards out there. As far as pots go stop thinking pots and think rotary encoders. Using pots are problematic. Rotary encoders will do the same thing with less issues. Most rotary encoders also have a push button built that could add even more functionality should you require it. I just purchased 10 of them from China for $8.00 US

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can build the enclosure from white sheet plastic. Have you ever built plastic models when you were younger? This plastic is very similar and you can buy it from your local hobby store. It use the same plastic glue you use on models. Just use a hobby knife to cut everything out you need to build a long box. Paint it black with some Tamiya semi gloss black acrylic paint (water wash up and no stink). Install your parts and double side tape it to the side of you monitor. You can add strip LEDS inside but you need to paint the inside black as well to avoid light leaks except at the face where you want light to penetrate. Oh yes, you will need to buy some knobs as well.

 

That's it my friend. :)

[the_soupdragon]

nice job there Warthog.

I am not looking to build a panel as such. All I am looking to do is build a button/switch box. I am looking to put my trim axis in the box as well as some switches and buttons.

You say to keep away from pots, but wouldn't I need to use pots rather than rotaries/encoders for my trim controls? I am still a little confused regarding the terminology.

 

Cheers

SD

[mr_mojo97]

All a panel is a button/switch box though in its basic form. In my opinion if you can save up and ge a Leo Bodnar BU0836X board you won't go wrong as it enables you to use 8 pots, 32 switches or buttons and another 8 for the likes of a hat switch. And it is plug and play.

 

Pots are best for the likes of trim and lighting controls, encoders more for radio, ILS, TACAN and switches for everything else. This board in particular enables you to simply push the wire into the socket and then you just solder the ore end to the switch etc. only thing is you'll have to use something like Helios to correctly configure the switches to be on or off. Which again is a very simple program and free I think now.

[the_soupdragon]

Cheers Mate.

I was thinking of biting the bullet with regards to the BU0836X board but it looks like its sold out.

 

SD

[Stevos758]

If only you were in the states. I have one laying around unused.

[the_soupdragon]

shame :(

 

SD

[Stevos758]

Can you solder?

 

If so I would just pick up a teensy 2.0++ or 3.1

 

You can flash the USB firmware and hook up 3 pots for trim control and switches and buttons.

 

That will hold you over and get you on the learning path for a decent cost. You can always use it for other projects if you decide to get a LEO down the road.

[brydling]

Thanks for the advice regarding the pots. So it really doesn't matter what type I use? As an aside. does the k(sic) figure have any bearing on the pots accuracy? I mean is a 50k pot more accurate than a 2k pot?

 

I see that you have been told otherwise, so I just want to clarify. Higher resistance does NOT give better accuracy. It gives more electric noise however, giving poorer accuracy. I would recommend 1k, not more. They are the same price.

 

Edit:

 

Just to clarify some more. You probably won't notice much difference between 1k and 10k, so if you already have some pots with resistance >1k you can use them without a problem. When buying new ones however, there is no reason to buy ones with a resistance larger than 1k. If you notice problems with unstable values from your >1k potentiometers you can try changing them to 1k. Long cables and a noisy environment will make them more susceptible to noise.

Edited May 28, 2014 by brydling

[grainny]

soup dragon,

 

you may try mapins for electronic parts, but they are not cheap. they have arduino cards which are very popular now.

if you want cheaper (but less flexibility) try opencockpits card, it vey tiny but effective and super cheap.

 

as you are in the UK if you want to pay 50p for switches instead of £2.50 then forgo the normal electronic shops and visit a model train enthusiasts fair like they have at alexandra palace in summer. all the items sold are for geeks and nerds so they are well cheap (i bought too much when i went).

 

if you are looking for cheap hand tools, you can also try the what! store. they sell 200 M5 nuts for 90p! B&Q sells 10 M5 nuts for £3.45, so no competition there. take your choice.

 

 

yours

grainny

Edited June 12, 2014 by grainny

[tacno]

@The_soupdragon

 

You wrote "button/rotary"

What did you said about rotary ?

For example, as Yaw trim or as frequency selector or radio mode.

 

Yaw trim = dimmer (10k ohms)(310°) : all USB joystick cards are compatible.

radio mode = rotary switch = buttons: all USB joystick cards are compatible.

 

But if you want a rotary function as frequency selector, with infinity turns, you must use a "rotary encoder" to get the direction : clock wise / counter clock wise.

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/ builds USB joystick cards work with rotary encoder and buttons and dimmers.