Help Advice for CCIP bombing please

[Zzenith]

I'm currently practicing CCIP bombing and although I know the basics of dive into target and wait until the pipper is on the target to release bombs, I find myself struggling to get the bomb on target unless I use a huge amount in a ripple with short spacing. I find it just luck too get a single bomb on a target.

 

Can anyone help me with regards to learning how to do the procedure properly. At the moment an kinda just turning into the target and desperately raising the nose or lowering until the pipper shows up and tracks toward the target then it seems pot luck whether it will hit or not.

 

What is the best height for CCIP.

What cockpit references can I use if any

What distance should I be from target before turning in.

What degree of bank to turn into target.

What dive angle is best.

Realistically what targets would an A10 pilot use 82 and 84 on

I've heard about mils with regards to the HUD but don't really know much about it.

 

Perhaps I am expecting too much from myself, how accurate can I expect to be using CCIP, if I do it within parameters can I expect a bomb to land slap on the top of a target every time or should I be expecting a near miss now and again regardless .

 

I would really appreciate all knowledge/ information on this matter, I know I could just use LGB's but I really want to learn how to use CCIP properly.

 

Many thanks :)

[kk0425]

Dumb bombs are always going to tough to land. Best technique I found is to dive at a 35-45 degree angle and put the PBIL on target and wait until the pipper is over the target. It is critical to be wings level and at 1 G during release. Being less than our greater than 1 will make your bomb fall short or long.

[kontiuka]

If there is little to no wind and the targets are not moving, then the bombs should fall very close to the target.

[PFunk1606688187]

Start here. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=99688

 

There's another lengthy thread that I can't find. I forget if there are any pics of HUD references in that thread.

[Boris]

First of all, make sure any inaccuracy you might be having isn't due to wind. Check out this guide I wrote about adjusting for wind: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=124711

 

You can first practice in a mission with no wind, and then try adjusting for wind later.

 

In CCIP generally try to drop my bombs from around 4500 to 6500 feet. Any lower and you risk getting hit by small arms fire, and any higher will reduce your accuracy. You also need to leave enough room for your dive.

 

Dip the nose about 1.5 miles from the target. As a rule of thumb, I tend to wait for a few seconds after the target has dissappeared below me, and I can't see it even if I stretch my head over the front to see.

Dive to about 35 to 45 degrees as kk0425 said. At this stage you should see the pipper and the vertical line (PBIL).

 

Line the PBIL up with the target and watch the pipper creep up. Wait until it's directly on the target before you push the release button.

A mistake I commonly made in the beginning is to try and compensate for the time it takes to depress the button and any lack in reflexes. Don't. Just wait until you can see the pipper on target and press the release. If it feels a bit too late it's probably right.

 

If you do this well and there is no wind, or you have adjusted for wind correctly, you will hit the target.

[Supersheep]

Here is what you are looking for:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117350

This, and the first thread linked, will get you a good understanding.

 

Notes:

-Forget about dipping the nose. Just don't do it.

-IMHO, I'd not bother with wind corrections

-^^is because there's a shitload of confusion going on about it

[Zzenith]

Thanks for all the replies folks, I will check those links out that were posted.

 

Cheers

[Boris]

Notes:

-Forget about dipping the nose. Just don't do it.

 

Well you need to get into a dive somehow...

 

-IMHO, I'd not bother with wind corrections

-^^is because there's a shitload of confusion going on about it

 

Sure, there might be confusion, but it doesn't mean it can't be done correctly. If we all gave up on something just because we're confused, most of us wouldn't be flying the A-10C anymore. :D

[Supersheep]

Sure you need to dive, that's covered in the links.

You line up your target on the side to you, left/right of the canopy bow.

Then, roll your HUD to point at it, and pull until you have the target in front of you.

Pull hard, ease to not overshoot, and roll wings level.

 

 

Regarding the wind:

Honestly, I'm a bit lazy with this topic. There were so many threads and so many knowledgeable people chimed in that I stopped keeping track of it. Then again, I missed two major versions of DCS, so that's not a big deal to me as everything might or might not have changed twice again already.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Supersheep

[PFunk1606688187]

In this context as a rule (meaning there are exceptions) I try not to push the nose except to keep the dive angle from shallowing out.

[Boris]

In this context as a rule (meaning there are exceptions) I try not to push the nose except to keep the dive angle from shallowing out.

 

Any reason nose dives are generally discouraged?

[Nirvi]

Any reason nose dives are generally discouraged?

Negative G

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1941427&postcount=26

Edited May 21, 2014 by Nirvi

[Eddie]

Any reason nose dives are generally discouraged?

 

Negative G

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1941427&postcount=26

 

And in addition to those listed above, it's quite simply bad airmanship, and something only flight simmers do.

 

To this day I don't get why people decide negative G is the best way to dive on a target. When I've tried doing in the past as an experiment it just feels utterly wrong and unnatural in every respect.

 

As for the OP. I've covered these things before, so won't repeat myself as the threads in question have already been linked. The only thing I'll add is recommending the viewing of the demo videos on the youtube channel in my sig.

 

Oh and I'll also point out that the question itself is flawed and incorrect from the outset. There is no such thing as "CCIP bombing", CCIP is a method of weapon aiming (just like CCRP), not a method of delivering weapons. ;)

Edited May 21, 2014 by Eddie

[Flagrum]

To this day I don't get why people decide negative G is the best way to dive on a target. When I've tried doing in the past as an experiment it just feels utterly wrong and unnatural in every respect.

As it has not the consequences as in RL, it just comes down to what you are used to. Stick backwards -> aircraft goes up, stick forward -> aircraft goes down. Simple. :o)

[Supersheep]

Pretty much. I needed someone to point this out to me, too - how would I know that experiencing, let alone sustaining, negative G makes for a very unhappy head?

 

The only reason I was wondering about it is that it was always so dang hard to figure out where exactly I'm supposed to drop those babies... Seemed off indeed.

[PFunk1606688187]

I think its to some degree the aversion to the disorientation that comes from flying in a sim looking through a narrow field of view. Even those who have a TrackIR have to train themselves to maintain situational awareness differently than a real person would since there are no seat-of-the-pants cues and while rolling and pulling its so easy to lose sight of your target since the monitor resolution is so pathetically below human acuity and on top of it the terrain is far less individual looking compared to real life and the textures are nowhere near as sharp as real life.

 

Ultimately most gamers are min maxers at heart. Pushing is slower than pulling but thats actually better for those who have a hard time keeping eyes on the target. Without a teacher to bust their asses into doing it the right way they'll take the easier road. Thats not just gamers even, thats humans.

Edited May 21, 2014 by P*Funk

[Whiskeybravo]

I think its to some degree the aversion to the disorientation that comes from flying in a sim looking through a narrow field of view. Even those who have a TrackIR have to train themselves to maintain situational awareness differently than a real person would since there are no seat-of-the-pants cues and while rolling and pulling its so easy to lose sight of your target since the monitor resolution is so pathetically below human acuity and on top of it the terrain is far less individual looking compared to real life and the textures are nowhere near as sharp as real life.

 

Ultimately most gamers are min maxers at heart. Pushing is slower than pulling but thats actually better for those who have a hard time keeping eyes on the target. Without a teacher to bust their asses into doing it the right way they'll take the easier road. Thats not just gamers even, thats humans.

 

This raises an interesting question as to whether the likes of Oculus Rift or other VR kit will improve the sort of limitations mentioned above?

 

WB.

[Zzenith]

I'm finding the CCIP bombing a bit better now.

 

So basically at the moment I'm flying at at 90 degree to target then I take a hard left or right bank pull back on joystick pulling a 3 g turn whilst letting my nose drop through the turn. Then when the target is almost on the pitch ladder I go to level flight as quickly as possible and line up for pickle.

 

My only problem is now trying to work out what distances from the target I need to start my hard bank toward the target. Of course this will change with regards to my altitude also.

 

Is there any rule of thumb that will give you a good idea of when to bank toward target taking into account my altitude and distance to target. Or is it all just experience and practice.

 

Cheers guys this is getting easier

[Supersheep]

That's in the first post in the first link (post #4) and then in post #103 in said link (this one: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1724366&postcount=103, esp. the second half)

Apologies if this sounds arsy, I don't intend to. It's just that there, it's explained much clearer and correcter than I'm able to.

[PFunk1606688187]

This raises an interesting question as to whether the likes of Oculus Rift or other VR kit will improve the sort of limitations mentioned above?

 

WB.

Probably to some extent, though the whole resolution, textures, terrain detail, and FOV issues won't be solved by it, not to mention the lack of G effect.

 

The only thing Oculus will fix is the peripheral vision issue, but its offset by the new issue of having total sensory deprivation with respect to your computer. I don't know if that'll be worth it for me.

 

I think significantly better terrain detail, a much higher resolution, and a wrap around projector set up would be far more effective at fixing these CCIP specific issues.

 

Is there any rule of thumb that will give you a good idea of when to bank toward target taking into account my altitude and distance to target. Or is it all just experience and practice.

 

 

Its also about a LOT of experience.

[Eddie]

Its also about a LOT of experience.

 

This, this, 1000 times this.

 

As with all things aviation (simulated or otherwise) much can be said to repeated practice, it may sound, or even be, a bit boring/monotonous but it's the only way you'll ever develop the muscle memory needed to perform the manoeuvres involved in weapon delivery (or any other phase of flight for that matter) with precision and without having to apply all your concentration to it.

 

You know you're "combat ready" when you can do the perfect roll in on target and deliver weapons "by the numbers" while talking on two separate radios, listening to the RWR tones, keeping visual on your wingman and avoid enemy fire. Without feelin overwhelmed, and actually finding yourself becoming addicted to the rush of such things. ;)

[Supersheep]

Uh, what was that? Nevermind, only the sound of a dozen bubbles popping :book:

Realizing that droppnig bombs isn't all shiny is hard. (Don't worry Eddie, you got my bubble a while back already)

 

Another tip: Practice with someone. You'll feel when a practice run was off, but those extra two eyes won't miss anything.

[Zzenith]

Just want to thank you guys for all those posts / links.

 

They have explained things well, I didn't realise how hard of a turn into the target you needed to do but after watching some of Eddies utube vids and reading some of the links. I know what expected of me now to do a fast dive bomb and escape.

 

Cheers lads now just gotta practice it a hell of a lot :)

[Mike5560]

Ive practiced this many times with tanks (now mind you, you may want to start your approach a little higher against apcs and 2000-3000ft higher for IFVs). I start at 5000 feet, generally 2.5 to 3 miles away. I zoom in on the HUD and keep the jet level and on horizon until about 2.5nm away when i gently dive until the target is within the HUD. I make slight corrections to keep the target between the pitch bars and gently dive more to keep the target near the bottom of the HUD. When the CCIP line turns solid, I sharply dive down so i am pointed only about 10 degrees above the target. Keep the CCIP line over the target until it's time to release. I pickle about 1/10th of a second or one tank length after the pipper has crossed the target. Then I pull up quckly to about 20-25 degrees up to stay away from gunfire. Timing and a gentle hand is key.

 

I just tried it and was able to get 7 t-72s with 10 mk-82s. Try to avoid diving too steep too early as this causes the pipper to race past the target. The method above is good for tanks and allows quick reattacks. For higher angle bombing, you can try starting your dive from 10000ft at 2.5nm (as indicated on the pod), or around 2.3nm from 8000 feet. Reattacks this way will take longer, since you have to climb.

 

And this is just me, but I alternate which wing the bombs fall between attacks to keep the jet balanced.

[Flagrum]

Ive practiced this many times with tanks (now mind you, you may want to start your approach a little higher against apcs and 2000-3000ft higher for IFVs). I start at 5000 feet, generally 2.5 to 3 miles away. I zoom in on the HUD and keep the jet level and on horizon until about 2.5nm away when i gently dive until the target is within the HUD. I make slight corrections to keep the target between the pitch bars and gently dive more to keep the target near the bottom of the HUD. When the CCIP line turns solid, I sharply dive down so i am pointed only about 10 degrees above the target. Keep the CCIP line over the target until it's time to release. I pickle about 1/10th of a second or one tank length after the pipper has crossed the target. Then I pull up quckly to about 20-25 degrees up to stay away from gunfire. Timing and a gentle hand is key.

 

I just tried it and was able to get 7 t-72s with 10 mk-82s. Try to avoid diving too steep too early as this causes the pipper to race past the target. The method above is good for tanks and allows quick reattacks. For higher angle bombing, you can try starting your dive from 10000ft at 2.5nm (as indicated on the pod), or around 2.3nm from 8000 feet. Reattacks this way will take longer, since you have to climb.

 

And this is just me, but I alternate which wing the bombs fall between attacks to keep the jet balanced.

You, too, might want to follow Supersheeps advice (and the others given in this thread already):

Here is what you are looking for:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117350

This, and the first thread linked, will get you a good understanding.

 

Notes:

-Forget about dipping the nose. Just don't do it.

-IMHO, I'd not bother with wind corrections

-^^is because there's a shitload of confusion going on about it