Bug Reports / Testing Process / Updates?

[NineLine]

But what is happening? There are bugs that nobody - except ED - knows their status. And maybe not even ED knows about all bugs that were reported ... but what do I know - I have no clue about the status ...

Is it really so bad if we would know more about it? Or what is the reason why that information is hidd... erm ... not made available to us?

 

 

If you report a bug, and I respond to it, I will let you know if its reported, if I can, I will reply when its fixed and near release or you will see it on the patch notes. Again, you guys should watch the vid I shared... it will make things a little more clearer. (its in my sig now as well)

 

As a side note, sometimes we cant comment on stuff as its related to things in development. Its just a fact of development here, I cant help that, its just the way it has to be.

[NineLine]

Ok, will try it. Never thought of asking per PM or so since Moderators are shy end mighty creatures like fairies or god :D

 

Sobek is more like a fairy, GG thinks he is more like a god (shooting AMRAAMs from is arse) .... I fall somewhere in the middle :P

[Flagrum]

If you report a bug, and I respond to it, I will let you know if its reported, if I can, I will reply when its fixed and near release or you will see it on the patch notes.

All well and great, but in practice this is not what is happening (speaking in general, not accusing you personally of anything! :o). Not for the open beta bug forums and even less for the regular bug forums. My estimation is that about 40% in the open beta forums and about 60% in the regular forums get/got no visible feedback about their respective status.

 

As a side note, sometimes we cant comment on stuff as its related to things in development. Its just a fact of development here, I cant help that, its just the way it has to be.

Hints on when what might be fixed would be optimal, but I really would not expect that. I would be happy already (as a first step :o) if we could be sure that ED knows about it.

[NineLine]

All well and great, but in practice this is not what is happening (speaking in general, not accusing you personally of anything! :o). Not for the open beta bug forums and even less for the regular bug forums. My estimation is that about 40% in the open beta forums and about 60% in the regular forums get/got no visible feedback about their respective status.

 

 

Hints on when what might be fixed would be optimal, but I really would not expect that. I would be happy already (as a first step :o) if we could be sure that ED knows about it.

 

 

Like I said... things could improve.

[Snoopy]

Ranger is frustrated and he has every right to be.

 

I started typing a huge post but it will only get deleted or I'll get banned. Members of this forum who have provided a ton of things to the community are leaving because of all the frustrations listed already.

 

If ED truly is 100% focused on EDGE integration say so. ED to simply Express that we understand the frustration but they're trying to complete something that has been in the works for 3 plus years. Some will complain but most members of the community will understand.

 

Anyways, anyone wanting to ask questions and get answers concerning the A-10C come to the 476th vFighter Groups forums and we'll be happy to assist. We've got some great things in the works but honestly most of us dont spend much time on the ED boards simply because besides some 3rd party aircraft and the "hope" of Nevada someday ED isn't working on anything that we plan to adopt. And please don't say anything about the F/A-18C because that's at least 2 years away (gut feeling I don't have any inside info).

[Flagrum]

Like I said... things could improve.

Thats why we are discussing here ... :o)

 

My idea was just that, if ED would open the bug tracker for us for read access, it would probably one of the easier solutions. Compared to the effords necessary to keep threads and bug tracker in sync ... in both directions.

[159th_Viper]

I would be happy already (as a first step :o) if we could be sure that ED knows about it.

 

If it is posted in the relevant forum/sub-forum then you can be sure that they know about it.

[cichlidfan]

An example of why the bug sections are confusing.

 

Every once in a while you run into a thread with '[REPORTED]' at the beginning of a title, or [FIXED], or even my favorite [OPEN] (what does that one mean, not reported?). Meanwhile most of the threads have no prefix. Are these untagged threads not bugs, not reported or what?

 

If it is in the bug section it should have a status, that makes sense. If it is not a bug, it should be moved/deleted (possibly with notification to the poster if needed).

[NineLine]

Thats why we are discussing here ... :o)

 

My idea was just that, if ED would open the bug tracker for us for read access, it would probably one of the easier solutions. Compared to the effords necessary to keep threads and bug tracker in sync ... in both directions.

 

Its just not gonna happen, ED's bug tracker covers more than just current, and open beta releases. I doubt they want all that out there, and its not so easy just to pull out those items. I hope the Open Beta process evolves some more, but thats just a personal wishlist item.

[NineLine]

An example of why the bug sections are confusing.

 

Every once in a while you run into a thread with '[REPORTED]' at the beginning of a title, or [FIXED], or even my favorite [OPEN] (what does that one mean, not reported?). Meanwhile most of the threads have no prefix. Are these untagged threads not bugs, not reported or what?

 

If it is in the bug section it should have a status, that makes sense. If it is not a bug, it should be moved/deleted (possibly with notification to the poster if needed).

 

 

Open generally means someone is looking into it to see if its actually a bug or if its on the user side, or something else... not all testers have mod powers, so they cant re-tag threads... its more work than it sounds like... I did do it in the Game Crash section for a time, but again its hard to keep up with.

[cichlidfan]

... not all testers have mod powers, so they cant re-tag threads...

 

I realize it could be a lot of work but this ^^^ needs to be fixed. Those reviewing the threads must have the ability to annotate.

 

Any filing system is a lot of work when you start with a backlog of unfiled material.

[NineLine]

I realize it could be a lot of work but this ^^^ needs to be fixed. Those reviewing the threads must have the ability to annotate.

 

Any filing system is a lot of work when you start with a backlog of unfiled material.

 

Not all testers signed on to file forum posts... its only the crazy ones that want mod powers ;) Remember, a good chunk of us are volunteers. We do what we can.

[Flagrum]

If it is posted in the relevant forum/sub-forum then you can be sure that they know about it.

That is not enough for me, sorry.

 

But anyhow, how does ED make sure they know, that they never miss a posting, that the testers never miss a reply in an existing thread?

[Flagrum]

Its just not gonna happen, ED's bug tracker covers more than just current, and open beta releases. I doubt they want all that out there, and its not so easy just to pull out those items. I hope the Open Beta process evolves some more, but thats just a personal wishlist item.

Such systems are usually widely configurable - this issue should (heh, yeah, assumption :o) be one of the less problematic ones.

[NineLine]

That is not enough for me, sorry.

 

But anyhow, how does ED make sure they know, that they never miss a posting, that the testers never miss a reply in an existing thread?

 

No system is perfect.

[PFunk1606688187]

Who's hiding what? There seems to be a misguided sense of entitlement that pervades many posts in this thread :D

 

Customers feeling entitled to better communication and transparency from the vendor with whom they must have an ongoing relationship in order to utilize the product? Naw, thats crazy.

[ajax]

... or even my favorite [OPEN] (what does that one mean, not reported?).

I asked that same question just a day ago. (And haven't gotten an answer.)

[cichlidfan]

I asked that same question just a day ago. (And haven't gotten an answer.)

 

I guess this is your answer.

 

Open generally means someone is looking into it to see if its actually a bug or if its on the user side, or something else...

[ajax]

But anyhow, how does ED make sure they know, that they never miss a posting, that the testers never miss a reply in an existing thread?

Exactly!

 

Take my recent scripting-engine bug report for example: I made several pleas to at least acknowledge the bug. Several others chimed in, too. (Thanks, guys!) But nothing from ED to date....

Edited May 27, 2014 by ajax

[ajax]

I guess this is your answer.

Yep, I guess so... in a roundabout way.

[NineLine]

Exactly!

 

Take my recent scripting-engine bug report for example: I made several pleas to at least acknowledge the bug. Several others chimed in, too. (Thanks, guys!) But nothing from ED to date....

 

I asked that same question just a day ago. (And haven't gotten an answer.)

 

 

Yep, I guess so... in a roundabout way.

 

Well I know that Speed and Grimes are the gurus when it comes to the Scripting Engine, and I believe both of them are pretty busy right now as they havent been very active around here, they would be the best to tackle Scripting Engine bugs, I assume you are talking about MIST?

 

But again, this goes back to my point, if we were to have this huge open bug tracker, everyone would be hammering on about their specific bug they reported, again, its a small team, and that goes for us in Testing and moderation, so we try, but posts like yours are dis-heartening...

[Rider1]

From Rangers post #1:

What is the Quality Control process for a release candidate (update) to the community? Who decides which bugs are priority and which are not? How does the process involving the ED Test team work? Do the programmers and leaders of the community understand how crippling some of the bugs introduced in the latest patches have effected the community and custom missions

 

That's exactly what I am getting at. How does a patch that ruins hours of hard work by mission designers and cripple the gameplay for DCS consumers get released in that broken state?

 

My opinion and mine only.

 

I personally can think of only 2 scenarios.

 

1. That the testers and QA people completely missed this bug.

2. Testers and QA reported the bug to ED, and some entity at ED decided that it would be OK release it in this broken state.

 

Neither of these are acceptable, really.

 

So the questions then are can we expect a fix for this anytime soon?. Is it on EDs radar as critical issue? Can we expect a hot patch of some sort soon?

Edited May 27, 2014 by Rider1
A little too snarky

[NineLine]

From Rangers post #1:

What is the Quality Control process for a release candidate (update) to the community? Who decides which bugs are priority and which are not? How does the process involving the ED Test team work? Do the programmers and leaders of the community understand how crippling some of the bugs introduced in the latest patches have effected the community and custom missions

 

That's exactly what I am getting at. How does a patch that ruins hours of hard work by mission designers and cripple the gameplay for DCS consumers get released in that broken state?

 

My opinion and mine only.

 

I personally can think of only 2 scenarios.

 

1. That the testers and QA people completely missed this bug.

2. Testers and QA reported the bug to ED, and some entity at ED decided that it would be OK release it in this broken state.

 

Neither of these are acceptable, really.

 

So the question I am asking is it going to fixed, a simple yes or no. If yes, how about a no BS assessment of the time it will take to get the fix out.

Can we look out for a hot patch soon, maybe?

 

 

You arent getting it, its not so black and white. and your two scenarios arent the only scenarios, and honestly are described in a way that I find a little insulting. But this thread is just going round and round now anyways... so there ya go.

[ajax]

... I assume you are talking about MIST?

No, not at all. I am talking about the Simulation Scripting Engine built into DCS -- the one that all other mission scripts (including Mist) rely on to behave as documented.

Edited May 27, 2014 by ajax
added clarity

[Rider1]

Sorry Sith, my comments were not directed at you, but ED as an entity.

 

And I should probably eject before I get ban hammered.