DCS WW2 fighter comparison

[Narushima]

Comparison of late war FW 190 models:

 

 

Power at sea level:

FW 190 D-9 2100PS

FW 190 A-9 2400PS

FW 190 A-8 2000PS

 

The D-9 was a quantum leap in terms of aerodynamics and high altitude performance compared to the A models. And to think it could have been operational in late 1942/early 1943 were it not blocked by the RLM.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Narushima

[MiloMorai]

Kurfurst

On April 12, `45, Lw.Kdo. West had 42 FW 190As on-hand (Stab/JG300, II./JG300, Stab/NAGr.13)

42 x 525 l = 22,050 l

 

284,000/22,050 = 13 sorties

 

Now some words by Butch (Oliver Lefrvre):

 

The problem was not the lack of C3, there were C3 being produced along with B4. Note that they dropped the addition of additives preventing formation of Gum which account for troubles using both B4 and C3 after they have stayed a few weeks in tanks. That was a problem encountered by the team in charge of the captured a/c after the war btw.

 

By 1945 airfields had usualy a few days worth of fuel counting a couple of sorties a day. Problem was that deliveries were erratic, movement of fuel was done by night only and sometimes took a long time. Some deliveries taking weeks to arrive.

 

Fuel production was virtually finished by february 1945 and the strategic stocks were used and they lasted until mid April.

 

C3 use for all units was virtually impossible due to the amount of C3 fuel being delivered first to the 190 units and then to the 109 with ASC/DC engines.

[Friedrich-4B]

Its a question of reading carefully the evidence. We know that on April 22 1945 Luftwaffenkommando West reported 284,000 liters of C-3 fuel stocks on airfields in Bavaria. Would you kindly re-read it? It says "on Airfields". Not "On depots".

 

How about Kurfurst read his own comments?:

...(keep in mind that main storage was not at the airfields themselves, they were supplied periodically)...

 

The airfields had to be resupplied - problem is it did not happen "periodically" nor even systematically; as already noted:

 

Hauptmann Roderich Cescotti, an Fw 190D pilot and Gruppe maintenance officer with II./JG 301, described the difficulty of obtaining aviation fuel for his aircraft during the early months of 1945:

“Getting fuel for the fighters was not so much a logistics operation, more an intelligence battle. We would send tankers on circuitous journeys, picking up 5,000 litres in one place, 2,500 litres at another; sometimes it might take as long as a week to collect the twenty tons of fuel needed for a single fighter operation.” Price The Last Year of the Luftwaffe 2001 p. 108.

 

As has already been shown, RAF units had to scrounge for even small supplies of fuel, and even ammo just to keep going.

 

For three days in mid-April 1945, 126(RCAF) Spitfire Wing had problems with getting supplies after moving to an ALG (Wunstorf) in Germany; because of the Allies' air supremacy Dakotas could be flown in to help alleviate the shortages, caused by the intensive rates of sorties being flown, and at no time did the shortages stop the Wing from operating during those three days:

 

 

Guaranteed Kurfurst cannot show any 2 TAF units were affected by sustained fuel/ammunition shortages, such that they could not operate.

 

Nothing like the sustained fuel shortages that plagued the Luftwaffe.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[tempestglen]

If USAAF prove Griffon Mustang in 1942......

 

606km/h only available WITHOUT ETC504?

 

Flight Report Nr. 4 of Fw 190 D-9/210002 presented the following results: Operating at 1,75 ata, a maximum speed of 606 km/h (376 mph) at ground level was obtained. The maximum speed in the first gear was 650 km/h (404 mph) at 2,7 km (8858 ft.). The condition of the aircraft was as follows: D-9 production condition with methanol installation, surface smoothed/primed and polished, seams & cracks sealed, operable wheel flaps, gap at engine sealed (D-9 Serienzustand mit Methanolanlage, Oberfl鋍he gespachtelt und poliert, Spalte abgedichtet, bewegliche Radklappen, Spalte am Triebwerk abgedichtet.) These values did not quite reach the characteristic curve from the comparison dated 15.12.44.

 

 

So we can state: D-9 without engine sealing - 15 km/h; with ETC 504 + fixed wheel covering about -10 km/h. This indicates that the D-9 reached the following speeds - minimum:

• 
  
• 606 km/h (377 mph) at sea level with MW 50 injection and engine sealing; without ETC 504 and variable wheel covering.
  
• 591 km/h (367 mph) at sea level with MW 50 injection; without engine sealing, ETC 504 and variable wheel covering.
  
• 581 km/h (361 mph) at sea level with MW 50 injection, ETC 504 and fixed wheel covering; without engine sealing.
  

 

With 1900 PS engine set up:

• 
  
• 578 km/h (359 mph) at sea level without engine sealing and variable wheel covering.
  
• 568 km/h (353 mph) at sea level with ETC 504 and fixed wheel covering.
   
  
  

Edited June 28, 2014 by tempestglen

[tempestglen]

In my book I have published one chart from 3.1.45 (page 154) showing FW 190 D-9 performance with B4 fuel with MW 50 injection operating at 2,02 ata (Sondernotleistung ). However, I have no evidence showing that 2,02 ata was enabled by the end of the war. I think that the D-9 was flown either with the 1900 PS update or with MW50 injection (2100 PS).

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html

 

 

So no 2.02ATA edidence in WWII, just like 25lbs Spitfire XIV.;)

 

But 13lbs Tempy did combat in europe with 640-650km/h sea level speed and obvious better dive than Dora.

Edited June 28, 2014 by tempestglen

[tempestglen]

Comparison of late war FW 190 models:

 

 

Power at sea level:

FW 190 D-9 2100PS

FW 190 A-9 2400PS

FW 190 A-8 2100PS

 

The D-9 was a quantum leap in terms of aerodynamics and high altitude performance compared to the A models. And to think it could have been operational in late 1942/early 1943 were it not blocked by the RLM.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/fx858.html

 

 

 

 

 

While North American were concentrating on improving the performance of the P-51 through the development of the lightweight Mustangs, in Britain, other avenues of development were being pursued. To this end, two Mustang Mk IIIs (P-51Bs and P-51Cs), FX858 and FX901, were fitted with different Merlin engine variants. The first of these, FX858, was fitted with a Merlin 100 by Rolls-Royce at Hucknall; this engine was similar to the RM 14 SM fitted to the XP-51G and was capable of generating 2,080 hp (1,550 kW) at 22,800 ft (7,000 m) using a boost pressure of +25 lbf/in2 (170 kPa; 80 inHg) in war emergency setting. With this engine, FX858 reached a maximum speed of 453 mph (729 km/h) at 18,000 ft (5,500 m), and this could be maintained to 25,000 ft (7,600 m). The climb rate was 4,160 ft/min (21.1 m/s) at 14,000 ft (4,300 m).

 

 

 

You see a Tempest 9lbs flies as fast as Dora. And 11lbs will definitely outspeed Dora and only require 100/130 fuel. So 11-13lbs tempy is the nightmare of Dora.

 

Edited June 28, 2014 by tempestglen

[Narushima]

What? Why are you bringing the Tempest and prototypes into this? Do you have a compulsive need every time you seem me post something about the Dora? We get it, you love the Tempest, make your own thread about it.

 

My chart is correct. I've researched several HISTORICAL charts to find what the speed of the D-9 was at 1.8 ata. This is without engine gaps sealed and without ETC racks. I don't care what Williams says on his site because he's biased and often time likes to present British aircraft in their best configuration against the German in their worst. Stick to historical primary sources.

[tempestglen]

What? Why are you bringing the Tempest and prototypes into this? Do you have a compulsive need every time you seem me post something about the Dora? We get it, you love the Tempest, make your own thread about it.

 

My chart is correct. I've researched several HISTORICAL charts to find what the speed of the D-9 was at 1.8 ata. This is without engine gaps sealed and without ETC racks. I don't care what Williams says on his site because he's biased and often time likes to present British aircraft in their best configuration against the German in their worst. Stick to historical primary sources.

 

Because I hate the biased ill series which enhance the dora performance in order to achieve the "balance of art". I also dislike the graph of showing K4/Dora with outdated Spit IX and low boost P51P47.

 

K4/Dora's opponents are Spitfire XIV, Tempest, Mustang(high boost),Thunderbolt(also high boost). Be brave to face your real rival. DCS world will NEVER be same as ill series. Climb and run for D9/K4 will NEVER be as useful as in Il2. Most energy tactic Luftwaffers learned in il2 is WRONG when facing Spit XIV, 11lbs Tempy and Mustang III/IV, P47M. Those allied aircraft do not need to turn and they will hit and run, boom and zoom, outpace and outdive K4/D9, just like what D9/K4 did against Spit IX in il2.

 

I've been waiting for several years to see the scenario where D9/K4 are outpaced and dived by allied planes. "Game balance", go to hell, :D

Edited June 28, 2014 by tempestglen

[Krupi]

Because I hate the biased ill series which enhance the dora performance in order to achieve the "balance of art". I also dislike the graph of showing K4/Dora with outdated low boost Spit IX and P51P47.

 

K4/Dora's opponent is Spitfire XIV, Tempest, Mustang(high boost),Thunderbolt(also high boost) be brave to face your real rival.

 

After the war two mock tempest dogfights vs D9 and a D13 were held both times the Dora came off best...

 

I love the Tempest as much as I love the Fw190 both aircraft had up sides and downsides and have very similar performance...

 

At least wait until we get the 190 before you start calling out bias this is not Il2 this is DCS. For example all previous games have left me loathing the P-51 especially in Il2, however in DCS P-51 I actually enjoy flying a pony so you can stop this Il2 bias nonsense right now.

[tempestglen]

After the war two mock tempest dogfights vs D9 and a D13 were held both times the Dora came off best...

 

I love the Tempest as much as I love the Fw190 both aircraft had up sides and downsides and have very similar performance...

 

At least wait until we get the 190 before you start calling out bias this is not Il2 this is DCS. For example all previous games have left me loathing the P-51 especially in Il2, however in DCS P-51 I actually enjoy flying a pony so you can stop this Il2 bias nonsense right now.

 

Could you give the original record of mock tempest dogfights vs D9 and a D13?

[Krupi]

It was the mock flights by Günther Josten and Heinz Lange.

 

And my apologies it says both aircraft were evenly matched :)

 

Anyway, I have said my piece I will leave the aircraft performance in the hands of someone with experience and a clear understanding namely Yo-Yo not the armchair generals.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Krupi

[tempestglen]

Major Götz had flown Yellow 10 operationally right up to the last days of the war. By May, the remnants of JG 26 had found themselves flying armed reconnaissance missions from Schleswig airfield near the Danish border. By the end of hostilities, Major Götz had surrendered Yellow 10 to the RAF at Flensburg Airfield.

 

While at Flensburg, the British had over painted the German insignia and replaced them with small white stars. They had also assigned the code; USA 14 to the aircraft. The USA numbers were allotted by RAF intelligence teams to aircraft earmarked for American evaluation. The British were also interested in evaluating this advanced aircraft while they still had it in their possession and conducted at least two mock dogfights against the Hawker Tempest, with the help of two POW pilots. The results were that both machines were fairly evenly matched.

 

From Flensburg, Yellow 10 was ferried to Glize-Rijen airbase in Holland and then to Cherbourg, where it was assigned the code; FE-118 and loaded aboard the HMS Reaper to be transported to the U.S. along with many other examples of Luftwaffe aircraft. Leaving Cherbourg on 19th of July 1945, the Reaper arrived at New York Harbor twelve days later and off loaded its cargo onto barges to be transported to Ford Field in Newark NJ for storage and eventual transport to Freeman Field at Seymour, Indiana.

 

11-13lbs Tempest is as good as D9 /D13 in a dogfight, and definitely outdives and outpaces D9.

 

So Tempest MKV is better.

[gavagai]

Tempestglen,

 

In your view the Allied fighters were better in almost every way compared to their German opponents in 1945?

 

When we take into account the fuel shortages and maintenance problems that plagued the Luftwaffe late in the war you may have a point. However, I wouldn't want those things to impact my opponents in DCS WWII. If I'm flying a P-51 I want to fight a 190D-9 that is in good shape. In the future I bet we'll get 75" MP for the P-51, and even without it my bet is that the P-51 is going to be the easier fighter to succeed with.

[Krupi]

11-13lbs Tempest is as good as D9 /D13 in a dogfight, and definitely outdives and outpaces D9.

 

So Tempest MKV is better.

 

That is a rather narrow minded way of thinking...

 

Just because it dives slightly faster and is slightly quicker does not make it "better", if it did the mock test would have shown that to be so.... :doh:

 

Anyway, I will not post any more on the subject... I have some paint to watch dry.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Krupi

[DB 605]

11-13lbs Tempest is as good as D9 /D13 in a dogfight, and definitely outdives and outpaces D9.

 

So Tempest MKV is better.

 

My favourite is better than your favourite :megalol:

"The results were that both machines were fairly evenly matched."

 

Tempest may be faster than D9/13 in low level but in high alt fight results might be different. In my opinion both planes had some advantages above other and therefore it's not possible to simply say "this one is better than that".

[Narushima]

It was the mock flights by Günther Josten and Heinz Lange.

 

And my apologies it says both aircraft were evenly matched :)

 

Anyway, I have said my piece I will leave the aircraft performance in the hands of someone with experience and a clear understanding namely Yo-Yo not the armchair generals.

 

The D-13 actually did win the engagement. The German pilot was able to gain the upper hand. Later on the British observers concluded that the fighters were sufficiently evenly matched that the fight would be decided by pilot skills, and both pilots agreed.

 

What you have to note though is that the fight happened at low altitude (bellow 3000m) and the D-13 did not have MW-50 installed.

 

Though it's useless to discuss this here, seeing how there won't be a Tempest in DCS any time soon.

 

EDIT:

Forgot to post this. The German pilot's (Major Heinz Lange) take on the dogfight

On 2 May we were transferred to Flensburg. This was my last flight in the Fw 190D-9 during the war, but not my last flight in this wonderful machine. We were interned by the English. Then on 25 June 1945, almost 2 moths after the surrender, our colleges of the Royal Air Force proposed a fly-off between our Dora 9 and one of the Hawker Tempests stationed in Flensburg. The Tempest was just about the best English piston-engined fighter, but having been stationed in the east we had never encountered the type.

The ammunition was removed from my aircraft - of course - and the tanks were filled with just enough fuel for a half-hour flight.

and then up we went. I was assigned an area near Husum and a maximum altitude of 3000 meters. A dogfight was held in this area, I in the Dora 9 and a Canadian pilot in the Royal Air Force Tempest. We flew as in wartime, and after some time I succeeded in outclimbing the Tempest and engaged it in a turning fight from above.

Of course our pilots and ground crews, some of whom were able to observe the spectacle from the ground, were enthusiastic about the outcome. After landing we had an exchange of technical thoughts with the British. Prior to this they hadn't spoken to us much, as there was a ban on fraternization.

This brought my career as a fighter pilot to an end. Even though I and my comrades of JG 51 Mölders only flew the Fw 190D-9 a few times and therefore are unable to offer a more detailed assessment of its qualities.

Note that he thought he was flying the D-9. It was revealed to him later that it was in fact a D-13. Edited June 28, 2014 by Narushima

[tempestglen]

That is a rather narrow minded way of thinking...

 

Just because it dives slightly faster and is slightly quicker does not make it "better", if it did the mock test would have shown that to be so.... :doh:

 

Anyway, I will not post any more on the subject... I have some paint to watch dry.

 

SLIGHTLY dive faster?????? Are you sure? It seems the cripple Il2 dive FM misleads you a lot.

 

A Tempest MKV could outdive Dora easily just like a P47C outdived a Spitfire IX in 1943 (Johnson vs RAF instructor.) And with "dive extend & pitch back" tactic, tempest could beat dora with same initial energy.

 

 

When the Spitfire IX available in DCS, I'll definitely test the dive acceleration between P51(as good as P47's dive) and Spit IX, if I can NOT reproduce the Johnson's story, DCS's FM blamed.:D

 

[gavagai]

I don't even know what that chart is supposed to mean. There is good primary source data at that website, but some of the British secondary sources read like propaganda. You should be able to detect that yourself if you are an objective reader.

[tempestglen]

My favourite is better than your favourite :megalol:

"The results were that both machines were fairly evenly matched."

 

Tempest may be faster than D9/13 in low level but in high alt fight results might be different. In my opinion both planes had some advantages above other and therefore it's not possible to simply say "this one is better than that".

 

"The results were that both machines were fairly evenly matched." IN A DOGFIGHT.

 

A Spitfire IX CW can beat Dora in a dogfight(low-medium speed, turning, rolling etc), but a smart Dora never let himself tangled with Spit in dogfight, Dora could hit and run, BnZ, so Dora can handle spit IX easily if you don't dogfight.

 

A tempest MKV is as good as Dora in a dogfight, and outperforms Dora in diving/zooming and hit&run, so which one is overall better?

[tempestglen]

I don't even know what that chart is supposed to mean. There is good primary source data at that website, but some of the British secondary sources read like propaganda. You should be able to detect that yourself if you are an objective reader.

 

http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/multimedia/movies

 

Let's watch a movie (hawk tempest gun camera)where the historical Tempy pilot said "I think I've told you tempest is a beautiful and clean aircraft and build up speed very rapidly in a dive"(00:20-00:30)

"Generally the focke wulf used to dive to get out of it if they are high to do so, now that was a very bad move because tempest would outdive them and those we shot down generally because the focke wolf thought they could get away in a dive, but they couldn't get away from tempest in dive"(01:30-02:00).

 

IMO, fw190's dive maneuver is a suicide when chased by a tempest. But German pilots got used to dive to get away from (Spit?) and their habitual behavior----dive----finished themselves.

[Narushima]

I don't even know what that chart is supposed to mean. There is good primary source data at that website, but some of the British secondary sources read like propaganda. You should be able to detect that yourself if you are an objective reader.

 

That's not an actual source. It's from an article done for a magazine somewhere in the 50s.

 

No actual aircraft were tested to make these graphs, it's all just an opinion piece from a single RAF officer.

[tempestglen]

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/tempest-V.html

 

 

Those Fw190s caught by Tempest in a dive.........

 

S/Ldr G. M. Cotes Preddy of 56 Squadron recorded in his Combat Report for 29 September 1944:

 

I was leading 56 Sqdn on a patrol in the Arnhem � Nijmegen area. When at 8000 ft just South of Nijmegen Control told me to turn East as huns were coming up. When over Emmerich I saw some Spitfires engaging about 20 e/a at my own height. As we approached the melee I saw one 190 break away and dive towards thin cloud. I followed him down with my No. 4 and fired a short burst 30 degs deflection from 100 yds. I saw 2 or 3 strikes on his port wing tip. He climbed and started a stall turn. I then fired a fairly long burst with no deflection from 100 to 30 yds and saw strikes on engine cowling and cockpit. Light grey smoke streamed out and the engine seemed to have stopped as the e/a dived away. I then had to break as another hun was on my tail. I did not see the e/a again, but Red 4 confirms that it went over the vertical and exploded 50 feet from the ground, the pilot not getting out. I claim 1 FW 190 destroyed.

I saw another 190 with a Tempest firing at it from 30 yds. The e/a burst into flames and went into a grass field. The pilot did not appear.

In all I saw 5 hun a/c burning in the air. 4

 

F/O D. E. Ness (Can.) of 56 Squadron recorded in his Combat Report for 29 September 1944:

 

I was flying Blue 2. When my section got into the melee I fired at three passing huns without result and then overtook one flying in my own general direction. I was doing about 300 (3500 revs) and overhauled the e/a steadily. He saw me and half rolled and the dived, but I was able to keep behind him although his initial acceleration slightly increased his lead. He dived through thin cloud. When we broke cloud he was at an angle of 20 degs to my line of flight about 300 yds in front of me, still diving steeply. I fired a quick burst without allowing enough deflection. I then closed to about 100 yds and fired a 3-second burst, angle of 10 degs, � ring deflection, seeing strikes on the starboard side of the fuselage. The e/a continued in its dive, hit the ground in a field, and exploded. This is confirmed by S/Ldr. Cotes-Preddy.

I then climbed to 3000 ft and saw another 190 1000 ft below me diving away towards home. I overtook him very fast, doing approx 350, and as I closed he turned in to me. I fired a 1-second burst from about 200 yds, 20 degs deflection, seeing no strikes. We then had a turning match lasting 4 minutes, mainly at tree-top height, with the hun apparently anxious to go home. I found I was able to hold him in the turns, in the course of which I fired about 3 short bursts seeing strikes on the starboard wing and a large piece coming off the port wing. I noticed vapour trails from both aircraft. The hun then climbed and did a stall turn, immediately repeating the manoeuvre. The second time I overshot. Coming back for a final attack I saw his hood fly off and the pilot baled out, the parachute opening the a/c turned and dived straight at me. I took evasive action as it shot past and continued earthwards.

I claim 2 FW 190抯 destroyed.

 

 

 

/

Lt. A. R. Moore D.F.C. of 56 Squadron recorded in his Combat Report for 29 September 1944:

 

I was flying Yellow 1. I sighted a 190 crossing from right to left in front of me at my own height (6000 ft) I got on his tail. He did a half-roll, almost immediately pulling up from the dive, which I followed, having no difficulty in closing to about 50 yds, at which range I fired a 4-second burst, seeing strikes along side of cockpit and engine. A large piece of the tail unit came off (confirmed by F/Lt. Ryan) The hun went straight down in a steep (70.80 degs) dive. I pulled up to one side, watching him go down, and then saw P/O Watts firing at it, noticing strikes. I turned away when E/A was about 2000 ft from ground.

I claim 1 FW 190 probably destroyed, shared with P/O Watts. 6

 

 

 

And the miserable fw190 dived from 25000feet and got caught by tempest from 7000 feet to the deck with 530 MPH IAS(almost 900km/h TAS)

 

P/O A. S. Millar (Aus) of 56 Squadron recorded in his Combat Report for 6 October 1944:

 

I was flying Yellow 3. Control reported 30 plus E/A at 25,000 ft when we were on a sweep just North of Nijmegen at 7000 ft. The section began to climb and I saw 2 FW 190抯 diving vertically in front of us followed by one Spitfire. With Yellow 4 I followed them down from 7000 ft to deck level at approx 80 deg. I was clocking 525/530 and closed steadily. Levelling out we chased the 190抯 at deck-level from 9/10 miles due East in a straight line. I fired 3 short bursts dead astern from about 300 yds. The shots kicked up dust in a field just in front of the E/A and he immediately broke port and slightly upwards. I turned inside him and fired another long burst about 20 degs deflection from approx 20 yds. The hun flicked on his back and crashed into the middle of a village, several housed catching fire. This was approx Nth of Goch.

I claim 1 FW 190 destroyed 10

 

 

Another fw190 was outdived by tempest at lower altitude.

 

F/O C. J. McDonald of 486 Squadron recorded in his Combat Report for 29 April 1945:

 

I was flying Orange 1 and my section of 4 a/c was operating separately to pink Section. Whilst over Lauenburg bridgehead Kenway reported bandits flying south towards the bridgehead. We sighted eight e/a through broken cloud about 1500 ft. above us, (our won height being 4000 ft.) flying south and twelve o抍lock to us. I took the section up in pursuit and the e/a dived to deck level and headed off north under low cloud at 500 ft. We followed and closed. I selected an FW.190, closed to 300 yds line astern and fired a short burst. I saw strikes on the fuselage and pieces fly off. The FW.190 rolled on its back and I saw it dive and crash on the ground. I continued the pursuit and fired short bursts at two other FW.190s from fairly long range but observed no results before the e/a disappeared into the rain cloud on the deck.

I claim one FW.190 destroyed. 135

[tempestglen]

That's not an actual source. It's from an article done for a magazine somewhere in the 50s.

 

No actual aircraft were tested to make these graphs, it's all just an opinion piece from a single RAF officer.

 

The Aeroplane June 21st 1946.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/sl-wade.html

 

 

Dives

Speed and acceleration in the dive is an essential quality to a successful fighter, but a decisive conclusion on the order of superiority is largely dependant on throttle settings, and the maximum speed in straight and level flight of the individual aircraft. Here again, however, by carrying out a number of tests under different conditions, it is reasonable to assume that the Meteor is well ahead of its rivals, followed by the Tempest, Thunderbolt, Mustang and Spitfire in that order.

 

Efficient streamlining and maximum speed both influence the dive, although a jet propelled aircraft will invariably have the advantage, particularly at the higher speeds, when the conventional fighter is progressively more handicapped by airscrew drag, and the accessory protuberances common to all conventionally powered fighters.

 

No account is taken in this order of Mach number limitations or altitude, as at around 500 mph the limitations imposed on the maximum permissible speeds for each type cause considerable change in the order, but it should be appreciated that these do not affect the diving qualities of the aircraft as opposed to maximum speed of which they are capable.

 

First prize to the Meteor.

[Narushima]

Couldn't you just make your own thread and spam posts about the tempest there?

[tempestglen]

The D-13 actually did win the engagement. The German pilot was able to gain the upper hand. Later on the British observers concluded that the fighters were sufficiently evenly matched that the fight would be decided by pilot skills, and both pilots agreed.

 

What you have to note though is that the fight happened at low altitude (bellow 3000m) and the D-13 did not have MW-50 installed.

 

Though it's useless to discuss this here, seeing how there won't be a Tempest in DCS any time soon.

 

EDIT:

Forgot to post this. The German pilot's (Major Heinz Lange) take on the dogfight

Note that he thought he was flying the D-9. It was revealed to him later that it was in fact a D-13.

 

 

D-13 and D9 are quite different because D-13 has two-stage supercharger while tempest has 1-stage so D13 can easily outperform tempy at high altitude. But D9(also 1-stage supercharger) is no better than tempy at high altitude.

 

I don't wanna talk about D-13 which is almost nowhere in WWII.