Very small point = cosmetic

[VIMANAMAN]

Hi ED,

 

I know we're in Beta, so this might be in the works already, but any chance of some improved textures for the (what I'm gonna call) the 'lft line' bar, and the 'A' frame texture. It's just that in a dogfight they're in my face, all the time and the symmetry is going to bug me, and be a bit of an immersion killer, to a small degree .

 

 

 

 

love this Module!

V!

[Fox One]

About windshield’s “A-frame” texture, I have gigantic doubts they actually built this from wood. I can easily modify its texture to my liking, however I can’t modify its inaccurate geometry in the upper part, see picture. In the picture is a D-13, but it doesn’t matter, D-9 is identical. Also see location of various bolts and holes.

 

Interestingly, the characteristic shape of the upper part of windshield’s A-frame was correctly captured by all Fw 190 simulations of the last decade, except for DCS…

[rrohde]

When looking up further reference photos, you can see that the wood is attached to the metal frame. So the wooden piece is sandwiched between the metal frame and the canopy (when closed).

 

I am not exactly sure what the wood piece does, but it's authentic (at least on some photos of the Dora; not sure how common this was). Maybe it helps eliminate vibrations or provides a better seal for high altitudes?

 

Anyway, here are a couple of pictures from a 190 that clearly shows the wooden add-on:

Edited August 24, 2014 by rrohde
One more pic - in color this time.

[Fox One]

^^^ All pictures you posted are of Fw 190 D-9 W.Nr. 601088 from an US museum, all taken after restoration. In Jerry Crandall's book Fw 190 Dora, vol 1 there are a few very rare colour cockpit pictures of precisely this particular plane, taken before restoration. There is no wood...

[Fox One]

Speculation on my part as to why they put the wooden part:

 

The museum got the plane without the canopy, for whatever reason. They built a ridiculous caricature of a replica canopy that is on the plane to this very day. Because the canopy fitted quite poorly to the windshield leaving a noticeable gap, they added wood to fill that so it doesn't look that bad.

 

See the fit of the replica canopy, manufactured to the highest precision standards :D

 

[rrohde]

Interesting. So ED seems to have picked that particular Dora for their reference to model our 190. Makes me wonder why, when hundreds of other references don't have that piece of wood.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Fox One. Guess the ball is really in ED's hand to return our Dora to the "fine German engineering" standard it deserves, without that wood. :)

Edited August 24, 2014 by rrohde

[Krupi]

Well, at the end of the war the certainly started to rely on wood, it was used a hell of a lot more in the Ta152 cockpits.

 

I really like the wood cockpit, it gives that aircraft some more character :)

[VIMANAMAN]

Interesting...

 

I was surprised when I worked out it wasn't rough 'brushed' metal, as I first assumed, and was indeed rendered as wood, together with the instrument panel base structure if I'm not mistaken - but looks fine to me - but I'm no authority on WWII Luftwaffe machines!

 

If anyone thinks something's not right then, I guess you'll need to provide very good data to show a change is needed.

 

I can believe a variety of materials were used as the war entered the latter phases.

 

I was just hoping some small texture improvements could be made.

 

But interesting discussion none the less, as I said...

[Fox One]

Well, at the end of the war the certainly started to rely on wood, it was used a hell of a lot more in the Ta152 cockpits.

 

 

...and all such parts with altenative wooden construction are clearly pointed out in plane's parts catalogue. I'm not seeing any wooden windshield A-frame there.

 

The windshield's A-frame was made of high-strength steel and it had quite a sturdy construction, as it was designed to save pilot's life if the plane overturned. But hey, feel free to believe it was made of expanded polystyrene if you want, who am I to stop you...

[Krupi]

...and all such parts with altenative wooden construction are clearly pointed out in plane's parts catalogue. I'm not seeing any wooden windshield A-frame there.

 

The windshield's A-frame was made of high-strength steel and it had quite a sturdy construction, as it was designed to save pilot's life if the plane overturned. But hey, feel free to believe it was made of expanded polystyrene if you want, who am I to stop you...

 

Wow... a bit on the aggressive side there.... :huh:

[VIMANAMAN]

^^^....of Fw 190 D-9 W.Nr. 601088 from an US museum, all taken after restoration. In Jerry Crandall's book Fw 190 Dora, vol 1 there are a few very rare colour cockpit pictures of precisely this particular plane, taken before restoration. There is no wood...

 

This has been troubling me a tad...

 

Hey Fox any chance you could scan a photo or two for us?

 

Anyone else think the wooden A-frame looks out of place - I know ED will have done there home work, as always, but what with the 'classification curtain' restricting data for anything newish, and the simple rarity of data restricting information for any older projects... it would be not impossible for mistakes due to dodgy restorations, etc, to happen?

 

From my research - the A series all had metal A-Frames, as did models later than the D9's?

 

A series cockpit.

 

D13 series cockpit.

 

I don't want to cause work for people but seems Fox MAY have a point? Any WWII Luftwaffe experts out there?

Edited September 7, 2014 by VIMANAMAN

[Krupi]

This can be mostly resolved if someone made a cockpit re-skin :D

[rrohde]

If only one restored Dora had this for whatever makeshift reasons, and none of the production Doras in the field had this, ED should indeed redo the 3D aspect of the A-frame to match the production planes. :)

[VIMANAMAN]

Absolutely - I could do it meself I'm sure, but while we're in open beta...

 

S!

[rrohde]

Anyone else think the wooden A-frame looks out of place

 

Keep in mind that it's not a wooden A-frame, but a piece of wood attached to the metal A-frame on the restored Dora in question. Not sure why ED picked that particular museums piece as reference....

[Krupi]

Well, I personally like it :)

[leafer]

Been wondering about this as well. Was surprised when I realized it was wood. Even disappointed one of my favorite warbirds was made from wood.

[VIMANAMAN]

Well, I personally like it :)

 

No offence (really) but that's besides the point.:D

 

I was just hoping we could objectively look at what the real D9 cockpit was made of.

 

S!

[Kodoss]

I looked into the drawings of the canopy frames 8-190.166-33 and 8-190.166-41 which were used for the Fw 190 A-8 and D-9.

 

Both have no wood at this area, only a 2mm thick metall frame.

[VIMANAMAN]

I looked into the drawings of the canopy frames 8-190.166-33 and 8-190.166-41 which were used for the Fw 190 A-8 and D-9.

 

Both have no wood at this area, only a 2mm thick metall frame.

 

Hey Kodoss - sounds like good data you have there! Is there any chance you could upload that somehow, to here, so ED can have a look at it? Sounds like the full story you've got there... maybe?

 

To me at least something seems odd.

 

Thanks

[Krupi]

No offence (really) but that's besides the point.:D

 

I was just hoping we could objectively look at what the real D9 cockpit was made of.

 

S!

 

There were cockpits made from wood...

 

Edit...

 

I will look to see if the A frame was one of the components.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Krupi

[Skulleader]

Fox One you have right,

 

The wood A-Frames can be using in the museum no problem but with our simulator we try to have the most possible the real warbirds and if during the WW2 the FW-190 was the metal A-Frames so change the wood texture to metal texture, I think that's it's not a real problem, no ?

About the 3D model it's one other problem but about the wood texture for me I prefer the metal texture, it's more real dor the WW2.

 

For me I really love your version, the real version (metal):

[ARM505]

:D FW190 Cockpits, confounding 3D modellers since the dawn of flight sims! :D

[Kodoss]

Drawing of main frame, one piece instrument carrier out of 5-10mm metall (al? ), A-frame screwed and riveted.

 

Drawing of spare frame, instrument carrier out of riveted metall plates, A-frame glued and riveted

 

Shows the riveting of the the -41 A-frame.

 

Both A-frames are out of 2mm metall as you can see in cut C-D.

 

Have fun.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Kodoss

[NeilWillis]

High time the museum made use of the original drawings and put right the bodge job then.

 

I am also of the opinion that the historic evidence is persuasive, and the model should be changed to make it look like a real Fw190, and not like a museum exhibit.