169th Stataistics Board up and Running

[PoleCat]

I can tell you from what I have seen that quite a few people have worked and continue to work very hard to add features and improvements to the 169th Panthers stats board.

 

I hope that we can remain civil and competitive at the same time and not let the quest to be number one sully the efforts made to produce such an excellent page.

 

IMHO the 169th Panthers always seek to be fair and equitable.

 

Out

[dodger42]

Everybody should understand also that those who create stats systems are extremely limited by what ED have written into the mp_log files. The mp_log is far from ideal. It is in fact only barely possible to get any decent stats system working from it.

 

The reason for creating stats (I believe this goes for all who have, dreYOU, 504th, S77th, 169th) is to try and encourage more to fly Lockon online. It seems to be successful so far. Stats do have their negative sides though. As a stats developer you get hounded by those that want the balance changed. Also, people learn to fly to get the most out of stats, rather than the most out of flying online.

 

It is a pretty interesting thing to watch from the stats admin side.

 

Try to be positive if you have issues with any stats system. Us stats developers spend bucket loads of time doing so and dont want to be bombarded with negativity.

 

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the various stats systems in the coming months.

 

Peace!

 

www.lomac-stats.com

[Frostie]

What i'd like to see implemented into the Stats scoring systems is a deduction of points or point for crashing without ejecting ,effectively your dead so a blackmark is needed and this would surely remove the growing trend of suicide crashes to preserve scores. Don't know how easy that would be to add but I would gladly welcome it.:)

[Ice]

Unfortunately it is impossible to do acuratley. If a SAM hits a pilot the log says player crashed also. Sometimes you can be badly damaged from a a/a missile and shortly after explode. This will also say a player "crashed"

 

I also expect this happens alot less often that what people tend to believe.

[S77th-GOYA]

What i'd like to see implemented into the Stats scoring systems is a deduction of points or point for crashing without ejecting ,effectively your dead so a blackmark is needed and this would surely remove the growing trend of suicide crashes to preserve scores. Don't know how easy that would be to add but I would gladly welcome it.:)

 

At lomac-stats.com if you die it counts as a death. It doesn't matter how it happened. In other words, you can't auger in to avoid a death. All you would be doing is depriving the other guy of a kill.

[Frostie]

Goya does that get marked as a death if you eject , as your plane goes onto crash? I imagine it dosen't.

 

Ice im sure it could work, getting blown out of the sky by a SAM is not good practise the same as TK'ing ain't so maybe losing a point for crashing combined with gaining a point for ejecting to cancel the loss out? Or could that be abused by ejecting then exiting mission before crashing.:rolleyes:

 

Just like to add that it is a fantastic service to the community you guys are doing and im totally in gratitude for your great talents, Thanx S!

[tflash]

Currently I can only open the pilot stats on 169th. If I study the VVS 504 stats, we should note that the Mig-29S of course has a BIG lead,

 

MiG-29S 4876

F-15C 3225

Su-27 2348

 

BUT ... it is also *by far* the most flown plane, look at the fighter-to-fighter stats, the Mig-29S also accounts for big part in Mig-29S deaths!

 

F-15C 889 : 1098 MiG-29S

MiG-29S 1426 : 1426 MiG-29S

F-15C 147 : 147 F-15C

 

It is not clear also what the impact of R-77 is, he most succesful missile.

 

So I compared the missile kills (excluding air-to-ground missiles) of aircraft with the kill stats and we get:

 

aircraft kills killed ratio

MiG-29S 4876 3479 1,40155217

Su-27 2348 2013 1,166418281

F-15C 3225 2867 1,124869201

Su-33 1881 1703 1,104521433

MiG-29A 270 274 0,98540146

A-10A 167 852 0,19600939

Su-25T 129 771 0,167315175

Su-25 19 115 0,165217391

 

Mig-29S stays on top, and this is somewhat independent of R-77 performance, since R-77 also accounts for majority of Mig-29S deaths.

 

Surprisingly, Su-27 does have, it seems, a slightly better stats than F-15C.

 

Anyway, the margin of the Mig-29S over the competition is quite large. I think Ice has it right: it is not only just R-77 versus bugged Amraam, but presumably also some advantages of the Mig-29S also.

 

Of course, these are only first guesstmates, I would need access to the real data for true statistics and testing this hypothesis.

[GGTharos]

It depends very heavily on pilot skill I find. A MiG-29S won't be doing so hot against a good F-15 pilot, but a MiG-29S with a good pilot will give anyone a run for their money.

 

Please note that the R77 and AMRAAM are bugged IN THE EXACT SAME WAY.

 

The issue here is that while the 120 is the main BVR and even WVR weapon for the Eagle, it is bugged and not good competition for the R-73 (which is should be. You really shouldn't even be thinking of taking your R73's to an AMRAAM-toting F-15 head to head). I bet if you looked at missile kill scores you'd see heaters vs. amraams have an advantage.

 

Of course, I might lose that bet but still ;)

[tflash]

You're certainly right on the first point: we have to take the pilot into account (so need a pilot - aircraft - weapon - kill matching)

 

The second; yes, it's plausible, but no way we would get that out of the data I fear.

[GGTharos]

It might be possible ... should look at percentage of kills does with R-27T/ET and R-72's vs. kills with radar missiles and guns, specifically against F-15's.

[Ice]

To say that mig29 pilots are more skilled than F15 Pilots is a Ridiculous statement IMO. Especially when SOME of us fly all the aircraft and DONT have a preference

 

It is only natural that the Most effective aircraft would have the most people flying it. Especially on a Stats board.

 

Think about this: IF the Mig 29 and the F15 were Evenly matched and IF the were were 50% more migs on the map, There would be more Targets for the F15 and therefore More kills for the F15 than the Mig29.

[S77th-GOYA]

Goya does that get marked as a death if you eject , as your plane goes onto crash? I imagine it dosen't.

 

It doesn't count as a death. Ejections are counted separately. Also the ejections are totalled combining a2a and a2g. There simply isn't a way to stop those that want to cheat the system.

 

Regarding the MiG v F-15 thing, this is a very telling stat from the 504th:

 

MiG-29S killed MiG-29S 1426 times

 

F-15 killed F-15 147 times

[Ice]

What does it tell?

 

That F15's very often arent on both sides is what it tells me

 

In fact I just checked the mission running now. Russia Verses Ukraine USA and Germany. So F15 Killing F15 is not possible.

[504 Wolverine]

IIRC there is only one mission that there is F-15's on both sides where as the Mig-29S is in all but one mission (the MiG-29A for both sides mission).

[capttrob]

It doesn't count as a death. Ejections are counted separately. Also the ejections are totalled combining a2a and a2g. There simply isn't a way to stop those that want to cheat the system.

 

Regarding the MiG v F-15 thing, this is a very telling stat from the 504th:

 

MiG-29S killed MiG-29S 1426 times

 

F-15 killed F-15 147 times

 

Is ejecting considered "cheating the system"? If so, give me some damn fire suppression and i wont have to eject when i get a simple engine fire. I can put it out and keep fighting single engine...

[Ice]

What he means is. Instread of crashing into the gorund player could eject. Personall if people want to go to these extremes for the sake of cheating the system. Let em. The best pilots wont cheat. Only ordinary pilots cheat and they will NEVER get the high quality stas of the best. So it really doesnt matter.

[capttrob]

So let me see if i understand this. If a pilot sees that he is going to crash and pulls the ejection handles... this is considered cheating the system? He should just "ride it in" with his hair on fire yelling YEEEE HAAAAAW!?!?!? for the sake of someone else getting a kill? Yet vulching is perfectly ok?

 

I say if vulching is ok because "this is war", then a pilot that is able to reach the ejection handles when he knows he is a smoking hole should be ok... because after all.. "this is war"... I applaud the pilot who can reach his handles before moving mud with his radome.

 

If pilots are deliberately crashing to avoid being hit by a missle and it doesnt count as a loss or kill... then i see your point. That IS very frustrating.. had alot of that in CFS1.

 

I didnt read the whole thread... so i could be misunderstanding the point altogether... in that case, i get what i deserve for coming in, in the middle of a conversation....;)

 

edit: and i agree with your assessment of the mig vs. mig/f15 vs. 15 stats.

[Ice]

Check these out capttrob. Taken just before and just after (Check Time Stamp) my "Collision" with hill :-(

[S77th-GOYA]

If pilots are deliberately crashing to avoid being hit by a missle and it doesnt count as a loss or kill... then i see your point. That IS very frustrating.. had alot of that in CFS1.

 

Yes, unfortunately that is what we're talking about. There's absolutely nothing wrong with ejecting if your plane is damaged or can't be landed. But if you eject after being hit, the pilot that hit you will still score the kill, as he should.

[capttrob]

S! Ice,

 

It seems there is only one thumbnail there.... Pretty picture though... what kind of rig you running?

 

Im trying to rope in more 54th so we can get more in the LOFC community. Several are upgrading their old LOMAC's to FC with 1.12a and a few others are getting the full kit-an-kabootle. So hopefully we'll get some good matches going once these guys learn their systems. But i warn you, these guys are master marksmen. Give them that radar gunsight and watchout in close range.

 

The 54th i was flying with tonight used to fly LOFC, but needed to get back up to speed on the bells and whistles. When he felt comfortable, we decided to turn and find ya.... we were about 50 miles out to sea when we turned. I see you were way high trying to find us...lol 450 or thereabouts...

 

When i tossed my first two 120's, i thought you were going down with that dive. I had you visually at that point cause you were leaving a nice contrail which i misinterpreted as a hit. Then you disappeared off radar. I checked to see if i got the kill, and only saw the loss on your side... That must've been one helluva dive out of FL450. I threw in a few more 120's and 7's for good measure when i saw smoke (contrails) coming from your ship... mainly cause i love the zzzspace sound pack missle launch sounds... especially the Aim 7 sounds... ;)

 

It was fun... once again.. thank you so much for the server... S!

[Ice]

:redface: check again, i was trying to load the same image twice

[capttrob]

Yes, unfortunately that is what we're talking about. There's absolutely nothing wrong with ejecting if your plane is damaged or can't be landed. But if you eject after being hit, the pilot that hit you will still score the kill, as he should.

 

No offense.. .but if i screw up, or get a bit too slow and get in a deep stall, or hit someone's wake, im punchin out if i cant recover (hasnt happen to me yet, but im sure it will at some point). Just as i would in real life. Pilots do make mistakes, it doesnt mean they are a bad pilot. It means they're human. Being that this is a game, and that vulching is allowed on defenseless victims with their canopy open, i think punching out after trying to recover from a deep stall takes more skill than blasting a guy sitting on the ramp. Now of course some rookies will punch out as soon as they drop a wing, but others may be fighting it till 100 agl. Just my opinion of course... but yeah, it is frustrating when pilots dump their plane when they dont want to get hit... lots of that going around when i used to play CFS1. Personally, flying with one hand on the ejection lever doesnt leave any hands left to work the radar... ;)

 

:cheers: <~~~ they really need to put that cheers smiley in here...

[Ice]

Well Here's the Track. You might like to see what happened. My next move "If" I wasnt rudely interupted by the invisible ground was to double back in EOS. If as you say you only had 1 AIM7 left my chances would have been pretty good.

[capttrob]

Never know, one of them may have hit if you didnt hit the ground.. ;)

 

Then again, yeah.. you probably would have gotten me. Im gettin there though...

 

How well did you guys perform after having this game for two weeks? :icon_supe

Keep in mind i have only flown mission 1 and 2 on the F15 campaign. All my training has been online in your server.

 

edit: i checked out the second picture... thats strange stuff man.... I did find it kind of odd that you had crashed. I figured something must have gone really wrong.... i guess it doesnt get any more "wrong" than that...lol

[capttrob]

PS, do any of these planes have WX radar? I cant imagine an F-15 flying cross country without some sort of WX radar.