A few questions about AWACS and heading

[Alkaline]

Hi,

 

Got a few questions.

 

BRA, 080 for 120 at 9000. I understand it like this:

080 = Heading, 120???, and 9000 is his altitude.

 

And what's the difference between a HOT bandit and a COLD bandit?

 

Bearing is the same as heading, right? If AWACS says bandit at bearing/heading 080, how can that be accurate? I mean, isnt every heading different regarding where you are?

[Foss]

It tells you, if you are looking or flying to heading 80 from your current position, and the enemy is not moving anymore, you will met him in 120 miles from your position in 9000 Altitude.

[m9matt]

I believe its Bearing, Range, Altitude from your aircraft.

 

Hot = heading towards you

cold = away from you.

[104th_Maverick]

Hot = Bandit flying towards you

Cold = Bandit flying away from you

Flanking = Bandit beaming you (has you in the notch)

 

When you ask for Bogey Dope from AWACS he will always give you the BRA from YOUR aircraft to the nearest bandit!

 

So 080 for 120 at 9000 = Bearing 080 from your aircraft at 120 miles at 9000ft.

 

If you ask for a PICTURE from the AWACS he will call out all groups and give their BRA from BULLSEYE!

 

See this video if you need some training on what Bullseye is and how we use it!

 

[Backy 51]

BRA = Bearing, Range, Altitude and is referenced to the pre-briefed bullseye which you drew on your chart or entered into the mission computer. The mission designer places a red and/or blue bullseye when building the mission file.

 

Say the mission designer put the blue bullseye overhead Batumi airfield.

 

You're taxiing fat, dumb and happy on the Batumi ramp behind the big ass C-17 cock-blocking your takeoff. Suddenly, you hear AWACS say BRA, 270 for 50 at 5000. Unknown to you, a MiG-21 at 600 KIAS is screaming at you with a 10 kiloton crowd pleaser. Which cardinal direction should you look to see the pending intruder? Hint: you should see lots of water.

 

The C-17 is oblivious to the AWACS call because the copilot has the wrong radio freq set. Four minutes and thirty seconds later you see a tiny shape hurtling your way from the west, then see a bright flash, have a sensation of heat on your face and then cease to exist.

 

Makes you want to learn those brevity codes doesn't it? Otherwise, you are FUBAR. Here are two to start with:

 

COLD - In context; attack geometry will result in a pass or roll out behind the target; or, on a leg of the CAP pointed away from the anticipated threats. Air-to-surface, dry or no-ordnance attack.

HOT - In context; attack geometry will result in rollout in front of the target; or on a leg of the CAP pointing toward the anticipated threats (A/A). Ordnance employment authorized, expected, or completed (A/G).

[Ironhand]

Hi,

...

 

Bearing is the same as heading, right?...

Actually, not. A heading is the direction in which you (or, I suppose, the referenced aircraft) is actually pointing. A bearing is the direction to the referenced aircraft from either yourself or bullseye (if there is one).

 

Rich

[GGTharos]

BRAA (Bearing, range, altitude, aspect).

 

Bearing is not the same as heading (As explained).

 

Heading = where you are going

Bearing = where something is located with reference to something else (could be your own aircraft)

 

The definition of aspect can differ from service to service. In this game,

 

HOT = High aspect (bandit's nose is pointed in your general direction, but it's pretty wide)

FLANKING = Medium aspect, bandit has his side pointed at you. Your radar might fail to pick him up.

COLD = Bandit has is tail pointed in your general direction.

 

 

In this game, the following is done:

 

1) When reporting Bogey Dope, BRAA uses your aircraft as reference

2) When reporting Picture, BRAA uses the bullseye as reference

 

Hi,

 

Got a few questions.

 

BRA, 080 for 120 at 9000. I understand it like this:

080 = Heading, 120???, and 9000 is his altitude.

 

And what's the difference between a HOT bandit and a COLD bandit?

 

Bearing is the same as heading, right? If AWACS says bandit at bearing/heading 080, how can that be accurate? I mean, isnt every heading different regarding where you are?

[Alkaline]

Hmm, alright.. I think im making this more complicated than it actually is, hehe..

 

Let's say someone says "Hostile radar contact at bearing 80, at 5.000"

He is located exactly on Bullseye, but he's direction is west, and I am on my way to bullseye, and I got bullseye on my north. Then I guess the 080 heading for him, isnt the same as my 080 heading, right?

 

I mean, gah... Am I making things more complicated :p ? If we are flying in formation, then its really easy, cuz then our heading is the same u know.. But yea, what if he is att bullseye, and I have recently taken off...

With "He's" I refers to my friend who has detected hostile radar contact.

[enigma6584]

Got a question: With regards to bulls-eye; any chance when mission maker positions bulls-eye for both sides in scenario, the pilots looking at the kneeboard will have a graphic reference to their sides bulls-eye? That would be most helpful IMHO.

[Backy 51]

Alkaline,

 

You have to know your position relative to the bullseye to answer your question.

 

In your example, you don't have a distance; so all I know as your wingman is that the threat is at 5000 MSL and EAST of the bullseye. The threat could be flying in any direction. Whoever is calling the threat (could be AWACS)needs a few radar sweeps to figure out how the threat is "tracking". Think of the threat call like a RADIAL/DME from the center of the Bullseye location. So a BRA of 080, 50, 5000 tells me the threat is on the 080 "radial" (Easterly from the bullseye) and 50 miles from the Bullseye (Bulls). That threat may be heading North (360) and you may be heading South (180). If you are at Bulls 090 at 100, then the threat is off your right wing or West of you at 50 NM. AWACS could then say bogey is tracking 360 and confirm to you he is heading north while you are heading south and at that moment is no factor (no threat to you). However, if he hooks 180 (makes a 180 turn ) he could suddenly be in missile range of your wide open "six" if he's within proper altitude missile launch parameters. Air-to Air combat is a 3D chess board where time is a fourth variable that you must anticipate. PM me and I can explain this to you more clearly or in a server give you clear cut examples.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Backy 51

[Backy 51]

Enigma,

 

There are ways a mission designer can give you marked chart, say for the A-10C, other aircraft might require a mod. But you have to know where to place that file inside the directory structure. An easier method is to draw your own paper chart or use the functionality existing within the A-10C TAD. Those SADL features allow great SA to all A-10C pilots in the session if setup properly! You can also see other modern Allied air and ground friendlies if suitably equipped. This is what net-centric data linked warfare is all about ...

Edited October 24, 2014 by Backy 51

[enigma6584]

Enigma,

 

There are ways a mission designer can give you marked chart, say for the A-10C, other aircraft might require a mod. But you have to know where to place that file inside the directory structure. An easier method is to draw your own paper chart or use the functionality existing within the A-10C TAD. Those SADL features allow great SA to all A-10C pilots in the session if setup properly! You can also see other modern Allied air and ground friendlies if suitably equipped. This is what net-centric data linked warfare is all about ...

 

I understand that. I guess my question was really stemming from my flying the F-15C lately. As you know, we have no data link like the Russian aircraft. We do however have a nice kneeboard from which to view our nav route and major cities etc. I was just wondering and asking the developers if it would be possible to put a graphic automatically from the mission design into the kneeboard. In other words when the mission designer moves or places the bulls-eye icons in a mission, a player who is viewing his kneeboard in mission will see that bulls-eye marker for his side on the kneeboard. That way when AWACS is calling ENY aircraft in reference to the bulls-eye, one can then get a rough deduction as to where they are.

 

Right now when you create steer points in the mission editor for the F-15C, for example, they show up in the kneeboard. Why not the bulls-eye?

[Robin_Hood]

I'd like to point out that normally, BRA(A) never refers to the Bullseye, only to the bearing and range from your position - and then Altitude and Aspect - (and each call of that type should include "BRAA" ideally).

 

There are two main standard formats that you should expect the AWACS to use.

 

BRAA

Bearing (from your aircraft), Range (from your aircraft), Altitude, Aspect + Additional infos

 

Here's an example:

"Uzi 11, group BRAA 090, 50, 20 000, Hot, Hostile, Heavy"

 

A group of contacts is located at 090° (due east) from your position (bearing), at 50 nm from you (range), at 20 thousand feet. He is pointed towards you (aspect), he is hostile (which means you are authorized to shoot at him), and is composed of more than 2 aircrafts (Heavy is more than two).

 

Note that additionnal informations like ID and composition are not used by the in-game AWACS. The ID should be given if you call for a Declare, though.

 

Bullseye

Bearing (from Bullseye), Range (from Bullseye), Altitude, Direction of flight + Additional infos

 

Here's an example

"Darkstar, picture, one group Bullseye 090, 50, 20 000, Track West, Hostile, Heavy"

 

Now there is a group of contacts due east at 090° from the Bullseye, at 50 nm from the Bullseye, at 20 thousand feet. The group is heading west (the AWACS could also have said "heading 270"), is hostile and composed of more than 2 aircrafts.

 

An aircraft over the Bullseye is normally called just that, eg. "North group over Bullseye".

 

 

Also remember, the AWACS will never mention your own heading, because it is not relevant to the contact it is describing (unless of course he is describing you to some other group). Anyway, I think that the in-game AWACS will never mention heading whatsoever. So it's always the bearing (others described how it is different already).

The closest thing to a heading that the in-game AWACS does mention is the Aspect, in the form of "Hot", "Cold", or "Flanking", which tells you if the bandit is flying towards you, away from you, or neither (respectively).

 

I hope it helps. If you want to know more about AWACS calls in real life, you should be able to find everything you want to know in a document called AFTTP 3-1.1

[QuiGon]

I have another question regarding BRAA calls: I just started flying eastern fighter aircraft (MiG-21) and by playing the related campaign I noticed that the altitude and range given by AWACS in a BRAA call are very unprecise or even wrong. I later figured out the reason for this: The AWACS was a BLUFOR US E-2 Hawkeye which used imperial units for the BRAA calls while my georgian MiG used metric units. So there was a big difference in altitude and a smaller difference in distance.

That leads to my question: Which factor determines the unit system used by the AWACS? (I know it depends on the AWACS and not on the one who is calling AWACS for a BRAA)

So,

- is it the the side the AWACS belongs to? (blufor AWACS = imperial / redfor AWACS = metric)?

OR

- is it the country the AWACS belongs to?

OR

- is it the aircraft (E-2, E-3 = imperial / A-50 = metric)?

[audax]

blufor -> imperial

redfor -> metric

 

:)

 

(I think that everyone should us the metric system! :D)

[QuiGon]

So if i assign russia to BLUFOR and then place a russian A-50 on the map it will use imperial units?

[Check6]

The problem is that the Bullseye is not modeled is not modeled as it is in real aircraft. In real life I can see in the corner of the display where the aircraft is in relation to bull.

 

I do need to explain why we use a bullseye. It is so the enemy can't hear our comms and get "reverse GCI."

 

So let's say someone breaks into my house in the dark and my wife yells "the bad guy is 20 feet south of you " he now knows I'm 20 feet north of him! Fights On!

 

However if we decided that the bullseye is the lamp on the desk in the den , she can yell "he's 20 south of the bull". I know right where the bad guy is , but he has no clue where I am.

 

 

"Good GCI is Good, No GCI is bad , Bad GCI is treason!"

 

Rolex

[Check6]

BNS130 you are mixing a few different things there, Geometry, ASpect and Weapons Condition.

 

Cold Aspect means the Threat has his back to you. Hot (Which is always assumed) he is beak pointed at you.

 

Cold as a weapons state means either the Master Arm is off or no ordnance will be employed. "Thug 61 , off Cold, North." The opposite would be an aircraft being cleared hot by a ground agency. And the aircraft calling "Thug61 in HOT , west"

 

Geometry being hot is REALLY, REALLY bad. We are taught from day one to keep the intercept geometry colder rather than hotter. On a Stern or cutoff intercept a hot intercept means my flight path will cross the threats nose. That's a great way to get turned into hair,teeth, and eyeballs in the improper alignment!

 

 

Hope it helps,

 

Check6,

Rolex