Ground Attack: Roll the Dice?

[Zilch]

Hey!

 

I'm loving flying the P-51, but I can't seem to actually kill much with it that is actually fighting back.

 

I'm trying to focus on ground attack now. On the campaign mission to attack a convoy that is protected by 4 sets of 23mm guns, one of which is within the convoy itself. I got the idea to try to eliminate the AAA first and then take my time with the convoy.

 

The problem is, the instant you line up your guns on a AAA target, they have to calculate for zero deflection. When this happens, the 23mm rips apart my Merlin engine like it's butter. The .50's don't have the stand-off capability compared to the 23mm to do the fire and break like I do with the A-10. This leaves you flying directly into a threat that can and will out-gun you. Aside from accurate high-level bombing, I can't think of a way to avoid this threat.

 

I've tried rockets, as well. Here, you have the same problem. When you employ a weapon, you're probably going to be straight and level at least for a short time. When there are 4 AAA systems within a mile, it's just rolling the dice to see if you get shredded or not.

 

I tried not attacking the AAA and trying to rely on evasion, and while I last longer, it's just a matter of time before they hit me while I'm strafing and can't jink.

 

I've been trying the mission like mad, but I'm figuring there has to be a way to reliably succeed here that doesn't just rely on getting lucky and hoping you don't get hit.

 

Any suggestions?

[Zilch]

In an A-10, I would, too.

 

However, the HVAR's in the P-51 are hardly a precision weapon. You spray six or ten of them at an area target and hope one or two hit. I've not had success using them against a specific target, like a AAA battery. You don't have any CCIP mode, obviously, so you fly at a known angle at a known speed and use a fixed point on your sight to aim.

 

However, maybe someone else is good at this?

[fastfreddie]

Steep angle or high dive speed help to avoid AAA and try to get the one in the convoy on the first pass. If I remember correctly the others will eventually run out of ammo but don't stay straight or level for long periods of time.

 

In real life most pilots used the one strafing run rule because they would often catch them by surprise on the first run. Any runs after that and the AAA units would know exactly where you were and greatly increased the chances of getting shot down.

[dooom]

you are shooting too close. zu23 are a tough target for p51 but not insurmountable. i never place zu23 in my miz at anything above average skill. That said, fire from farther out... they take very little ammo to kill so I usually do an area spray with a bit of rudder to hose around. typically i can then kill them before they kill me.

[Zilch]

Ah! I thought the 23's out-ranged me. I'll try again and see if I can manage.

[Zilch]

Ok, follow up question after getting shot down again.

 

How the hell do you see them that far out? I can barely see dots beyond 1.5 miles. Bear in mind, I'm running at my monitor's max 1680x1250. Labels clutter the picture pretty badly and I can't aim right.

 

Is this a hardware limitation?

[fastfreddie]

Don't use labels and once you play it a couple of times you should have a good idea where they are. Spotting is very hard in this game and use zoom to help you find your targets before you turn in to attack. Honestly most of the online missions the AAA doesn't use the ZSU.

[Zilch]

Some progress! I managed to scrap all of the AAA and two of the trucks...before I ran out of ammo. Sigh...need more accuracy.

[fixen]

Since we are playing a simulator, you could ask yourself how realistic this scenario is (apart from the AAA being zsu-23). Being able to destroy 4 AAA in close proximity of another and an entire convoy might be a bit to much for a single P-51D.

 

I haven't played this mission at all and only reply to what i've read so far though.

[OutOnTheOP]

I agree with the above that it's not a terribly plausible scenario for a single pilot... unless you're in an action movie. But if that were the case, you'd just smash your fist in to the Michael Bay Explosions Button and call it a day. ;)

 

That said, my advice for dealing with ZU23s: Come in at a 20-ish degree offset, about 5,000 feet, and snake your plane (smooth jinking) until pretty close (half mile or so). This lets you get close without giving them an easy low-crossing-speed target. Once in a half mile (*almost* gun range), pull hard into the target- you want to end up wings almost level, but with your gun pipper slightly low (about the height of the gunsight glass; 3-5 degrees low). As you come in, pull up onto the target and drag the pipper across him; start firing just before the pipper is on him, and drag it through. This allows you to put rounds on without ever flying *quite* straight. Works well for me.

 

Also, try to time your attack for a lull in his firing. They will fire in bursts, with a 3-5 second pause between bursts. Start that final pull-up-and-gunshot right as he fires a burst; this will ensure that you pull above his final burst with that pull-up maneuver, and will ensure that he's not firing while your nose is pointed directly at him.

 

I know it sounds complicated, but once you get it down, it's really not all that bad.

[Pikey]

Simulation vs reality argument again.

 

Certain scenarios vs AI don't play out well in a sim.

 

Post a human in that ZSU. Put him on duty for 8 hours. Give him a drink the night before. Let him have a colleague to talk to. Unload the gun and put the safety on. Put the Sun behind you on the dive. List goes on, but you get the idea.

[miaig]

If you want to make this mission easier, wait until the trucks are on the bridge or they just finished crossing it (they will stop because the road finishes as well). There will be only one stationary aaa firing at you if you do that, the one that's close to the bridge. You don't have to kill any aaa if let them reach that point. Other than that, just swerve, try to make yourself unpredictable.

[HornedGod]

I was stuck on this one for a while too but finished it similarly to how miaig describes.

 

First, I took out the AAA just beside the bridge. Then I waited until the convoy was crossing the bridge before going after them. On the first convoy pass concentrate on taking out the last truck that has the AAA on it. After that it's just a case of picking off the other vehicles and avoided some triple-A from the other batteries, but they're normally far enough away that you don't have to worry about them. Then it's just a case of using zoom to pinpoint where the vehicles stop and conserving ammo on your passes so you have to enough to take them all out.

[SFC Tako]

I've been playing ground attack all day as I'm new to this P-51 and boy is it fun! I could sure use a Thunderbolt 'cause that bird is more Butch than anything from WWII but still, the P-51 is such a joy to fly up them narrow canyons. I've found a sweet place just northwest of Gudauta. Just fly 20km NW and follow a river up a canyon. Put in some armored colums travelling south from the northern lake, throw in a FAC, put in low cloud cover and rain to make it gritty and you're all set for bombing and rocket practice. So far I've only used trucks, BTRs and the odd T-55 - I don't know if I need any heavy AAA in the mix, guess I'll get there later ;)

I'm sure this is old news to most of you guys, but I haven't had this much sim-fun for years as I have with DCS :)

[NakedSquirrel]

Diving Oval

 

Check out Dart's Tutorials

 

 

An old game, but the concepts are the same.

 

Enjoy! :smartass:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Additional videos on the subject:

 

 

Edited December 14, 2014 by NakedSquirrel

[Slayer_42]

Really old thread now but still extremely relevant i feel. Just made a diagram of the Diving Oval technique featured in Darts videos posted by NakedSquirrel. Just posting this here for a bit of fun!

 

Cheers!

[Zilch]

Wow, this got unearthed? Heh! I've done a bit of flying since then...some changes in AI behavior and better tactical yield some more recent success:

 

[DieHard]

Hey!

 

I'm loving flying the P-51, but I can't seem to actually kill much with it that is actually fighting back.

 

I'm trying to focus on ground attack now. On the campaign mission to attack a convoy that is protected by 4 sets of 23mm guns, one of which is within the convoy itself. I got the idea to try to eliminate the AAA first and then take my time with the convoy.

 

The problem is, the instant you line up your guns on a AAA target, they have to calculate for zero deflection. When this happens, the 23mm rips apart my Merlin engine like it's butter. The .50's don't have the stand-off capability compared to the 23mm to do the fire and break like I do with the A-10. This leaves you flying directly into a threat that can and will out-gun you. Aside from accurate high-level bombing, I can't think of a way to avoid this threat.

 

I've tried rockets, as well. Here, you have the same problem. When you employ a weapon, you're probably going to be straight and level at least for a short time. When there are 4 AAA systems within a mile, it's just rolling the dice to see if you get shredded or not.

 

I tried not attacking the AAA and trying to rely on evasion, and while I last longer, it's just a matter of time before they hit me while I'm strafing and can't jink.

 

I've been trying the mission like mad, but I'm figuring there has to be a way to reliably succeed here that doesn't just rely on getting lucky and hoping you don't get hit.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Go to MULTIPLAYER = "Burning Skies" server.

 

Fly 109 to kill targets to appreciate the better kill ratios and more ordnance availability to appreciate using the P-51. P-51 is the ONLY plane to use to kill ground "GV" (ground vehicles) targets as to its massive ordnance availability.

 

Don't fly straight line leaving target area, use ailerons and rudder. Attacking I don't fly straight line, but alter altitude so enemy guns have to re-aim; also true if enemy is on your six. Most enemy guys just "spray and pray" from too far back if they have lots of ammo; use TacView" to observe what's going on.

 

I would think in Mission Editor you can set the hardness effectiveness as to what the GV AI gunners are doing and how much ords it takes to eliminate a target. I know in "Burning Skies" server, the server moderator has made the targets harder to kill.

 

I do pretty good as to end of the month scoreboard killing GVs with 109 with its only one big bomb and its limited ammo. I am going to do better with P-51!!

Edited May 5, 2017 by DieHard