Wing mounted Gun Pods

[fastfreddie]

The caption say 'late war Bf109G'.

 

The MK103 was only trialed on the Fw190. It was a failure.

 

Alot of weapon systems were failures ... 21cm air mortars that were used by just a few units on FW190 A-4 through A-8s were another. Most FW190 units that used 30mms had them built into the wings.

[Kurfürst]

No Beule blisters on the connecting piece, but expading, caps on wing.

 

What options are there?

 

+ a big "D" letter on the engine. (DB 605D - used in G-10 and K-4)

[MiloMorai]

Alot of weapon systems were failures ... 21cm air mortars that were used by just a few units on FW190 A-4 through A-8s were another. Most FW190 units that used 30mms had them built into the wings.

 

That is correct that the 30mm cannons were built into the wing (/R2 and /R8 ). They were MK108s NOT MK103 which were mounted below the wing in a gondola.

 

The twin MG151/20s gondolas (/R1) were used by even less units than the /R6 equipped units.

[Friedrich-4B]

 

Apart from the D on the engine block, the oil filler was higher up on the forward cowling for D powered 109s (Mermet 109 G/K engines and fittings):

 

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According to the Flugzeug Profile 44 on the 109G/K, the Rüstsatz designation for the K-4 was K-4/R4, although other sources state it was still /R6;

Edited December 9, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B

[Kurfürst]

Interesting.

 

"Ende des Monats [Februar 1945] wurde das wieder flugkläre Musterflugzeug, nachdem es ein EZ 42 Reflexvisier erhalten hatte, an 1. Fliegerdivision - vermutlich zur Einsatzeinprobung beim ein Jagdverband - abgegeben."

 

K-6 general layout - either MK 108 in the wings with 40 rpg, or MG 151 w. 100 rpg.

 

Edited December 9, 2014 by Kurfürst

[Flying-Kane]

Ok guys,

 

you convinced me. :)

 

I got it from a book, where the author states especially that.

 

But how did they manage to use the wing cannons, when there were the oxygen tanks (right wing)?

[Maulkin]

Ok guys,

 

you convinced me. :)

 

I got it from a book, where the author states especially that.

 

But how did they manage to use the wing cannons, when there were the oxygen tanks (right wing)?

 

What book/author is that from?

[Kurfürst]

I believe you are looking at the wrong wing section. The oxygen bottles were between ribs 10 and 12, near the wingtip, you can see the oxygen filler caps just under the Balkenkreuz insignia - the gondolas were hanged from the mid wing section (lower panels were detachable with screws, instead of riveted), just next to the main wheel. The gondola ammo was stored just above the gondola, in the wing.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Kurfürst
clarify O2 bottles/gondola position

[Flying-Kane]

What book/author is that from?

 

Messerschmitt Bf109 Einsatzmaschinen - Das Nachschlagewerk

(Harald Helmut Vogt)

[NineLine]

Why would anyone want to hang gun pods under the wing of a 109? They sure didn't help the performance of the a/c at all.

 

One of the excuses hears when comapring a/c is that the 109 didn't perform as well as it should of because of the gun pods.

 

I would imagine it would be mostly ground attack wouldnt it?

[fastfreddie]

I would imagine it would be mostly ground attack wouldnt it?

 

I'm not 100% sure how much if any ground attack combat the BF109 saw but the FW190 F versions were replacing Stuka units and were becoming the main ground attack aircraft for the Germans. BF109's were used mostly for fighter vs fighter combat which is why German pilots hated or didn't want the gun pods.

[NineLine]

I'm not 100% sure how much if any ground attack combat the BF109 saw but the FW190 F versions were replacing Stuka units and were becoming the main ground attack aircraft for the Germans. BF109's were used mostly for fighter vs fighter combat which is why German pilots hated or didn't want the gun pods.

 

Well dammit we dont have a Stuka yet... so give me some ground attacking 109s till then ;)

 

I know what 109s were supposed to be used for, and what they were used for, but I am sure someone thought it might be nice to have them to shoot up some tanks as well... that said, with Allied air power, a 109 dragging a couple pods probably wasnt a fun place to be... but in DCS, it might make for some fun ground attack missions.

[Solty]

I would imagine it would be mostly ground attack wouldnt it?

Those additional guns were for anti-bomber missions, especially 30mm MK108, but MG151/20 are also good at fighting against fighters.

[NeilWillis]

Gun pods would be a good option, but of course we'd definitely need the B-17 to go with that package.

 

Oh and yeah, I'm with Sithspawn, we need the Stuka too - obviously, with the option for the 37mm pods so we can go chew up some T34s - which would have to be included in that package, along with the KV1, KV2, JS2, JS3, SU100, SU120....

 

Well, OK, I can wish!

[Solty]

Well dammit we dont have a Stuka yet... so give me some ground attacking 109s till then ;)

 

I know what 109s were supposed to be used for, and what they were used for, but I am sure someone thought it might be nice to have them to shoot up some tanks as well... that said, with Allied air power, a 109 dragging a couple pods probably wasnt a fun place to be... but in DCS, it might make for some fun ground attack missions.

 

But 109 never had Gun pods that would be good against armour. They don't have good enough penetration to even scrach armour.

[fastfreddie]

Well dammit we dont have a Stuka yet... so give me some ground attacking 109s till then ;)

 

I know what 109s were supposed to be used for, and what they were used for, but I am sure someone thought it might be nice to have them to shoot up some tanks as well... that said, with Allied air power, a 109 dragging a couple pods probably wasnt a fun place to be... but in DCS, it might make for some fun ground attack missions.

 

I know that the FW190 units that did ground attack missions didn't have alot of success with the 30mm against armor but this was almost always on the eastern front. How 30mm cannons would fare against Shermans in DCS ... who knows.

[cliffy229]

Since we are supposed to have Normandy, a major player in the US army there was the hellcat. Pretty much any of the guns that the German planes are sporting should have an effect on those.

[Friedrich-4B]

Since we are supposed to have Normandy, a major player in the US army there was the hellcat. Pretty much any of the guns that the German planes are sporting should have an effect on those.

 

Then there were the M2 & M3 halftracks. Anything from .50 cal up could knock those out.

[MiloMorai]

I know that the FW190 units that did ground attack missions didn't have alot of success with the 30mm against armor but this was almost always on the eastern front. How 30mm cannons would fare against Shermans in DCS ... who knows.

 

Fw190 units that did ground attack were the Fw190Fs. No 30mm cannons but retained 2 of their 20mm MG151/20s.

[Thumper1606688436]

Günther Rall claimed the firing link chain in the wings would snap under high G jamming the entire system so he chose never to fit them.

[Kodoss]

From the spare sparts list for the Bf 109 K-4.:book:

 

removable hatches

 

GM-1 bottles

 

Oxygen bottles

 

Gun pod left wing

[MiloMorai]

Günther Rall claimed the firing link chain in the wings would snap under high G jamming the entire system so he chose never to fit them.

 

Similar for the MK108 in the Bf109. The heavy belt would not feed.

[NineLine]

So general consensus is they could carry 20mm MG151 or 30mm MK.108 gunpods? Correct? Just not ideal with performance trade offs.

[Kurfürst]

There is no doubt that the ability was there - the K-4 manual lists the MG 151/20 gondolas specifically as Rüstsatz IV and there are numerous other references elsewhere, for example in the electronic switchboard. The gondolas weren't used much in practice because of tactical considerations, not because of technical...

 

There was a performance hit, but these MW boosted planes were still potent with the gondolas, see http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G14_PBLeistungen/Leistungen_g14u4_am-asm.html

 

which shows figures for the G-14/ASM which is only a bit weaker in engine profile and output.

 

This table from another report shows the associated weight and drag penalty. http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G_Leistungzusammenstellung/Leistungzusammenstellung109G.html#dragitems_table

Edited December 11, 2014 by Kurfürst

[NineLine]

Ok guys, thanks for all the info, if you come across anything else post it here, but this and an option for the "nose cannon" have been feature requested.