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PRF and TWS

SFJackBauer

By SFJackBauer
in F-15C for DCS World

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SFJackBauer

SFJackBauer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi. Let me begin stating this:

 

The TWS mode inherits the current PRF setting of the SCN (in Su-27) or RWS (in F-15) mode.

 

Now, I and surely most others knew about this behavior, but only last night when I was teaching the basics of radar mechanization to a friend that it crossed my mind that it is never mentioned anywhere in the F-15 manual (I dont remember how I learned it, I guess its because the Flanker symbology explicitely displays the PRF while in TWS.). Due to its counter-intuitiveness it surely could wreack havok with the newbies learning the sim, since a target that should appear on TWS, depending on your PRF setting, may or may not appear.

 

Given the TWS mode can be used in the F-15 for engagements, I chose to post here instead of other forums, but this applies also to the Su-27 (and perhaps for the other planes) as far as I've tested.

 

The thing is - in RWS mode, a fighter-sized, co-altitude, high-aspect contact appears on radar at:

 

- HPRF: 62 nm

- ILV: 47 nm

- MPRF: 30 nm

 

However if you transition to TWS at HPRF, you can see the target closing at 60 nm. Then go back to RWS, change to MPRF, then go back to TWS. It isn't there.

 

Now I dont have any concrete data on which PRF the TWS mode on F-15 should operate. But if its in-game behavior is correct then please this should be added to the manual and disseminated so people know what is going on. But I would speculate that, in the real F-15, TWS mode is interleaved only.

Edited by SFJackBauer
Svend_Dellepude

Svend_Dellepude

Posted
Posted

True, but i just left it in ILV for the last few days. Worked fine. Don't to see 60nm since all engagements end up WVR anyway. :)

 

Here are the lines for PRF management.

 

//PRF management. forward-HPRF, middle-ILV, back-MPRF

MapKey(&Throttle, BSF, CHAIN(LOCK+0, D(100), PULSE+DX1, D(100), 0, LOCK));

MapKeyR(&Throttle, BSF, CHAIN(LOCK+PULSE+DX1, D(75), PULSE+DX1, D(100), 0, LOCK));

MapKey(&Throttle, BSB, CHAIN(LOCK+0, D(100), PULSE+DX1, D(75), PULSE+DX1, D(100), 0, LOCK));

MapKeyR(&Throttle, BSB, CHAIN(LOCK+PULSE+DX1, D(100), 0, LOCK));

 

Just remember to put the boatswitch in the middle position before entering the A/C.

The PRF doesn't act in the F-15 like it does in the SU-27 where this trick doesn't work.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.

104th_Maverick

104th_Maverick

Posted
Posted (edited)
But I would speculate that, in the F-15, TWS mode is interleaved only.

 

 

This is not correct sir, your opening statement was.

 

You take what ever PRF you have selected with you in RWS into TWS.

 

Although you do make a very valid point about the ranges so I can see why this would lead you to thinking this way.

 

Here is a quick way to check.... if you are in RWS and select MED PRF, then go to TWS and have a bandit 30nm away, you will not see him.... However if you then select HIGH PRF while staying in TWS you'll see that he then pops up on your radar :)

 

This is why we teach our guys to always remember what PRF mode you have set before entering in to TWS, so you can adjust the PRF manually as required to any given situation.

Pilots have to be able to know what PRF they are currently in and just as importantly what PRF is up next when you press the button once to change it.

 

I wrote more about this topic here - http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1954142&postcount=2

 

Have a read when you get some time ;)

Edited by [Maverick]
  • Like 1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



104th Phoenix Wing Commander / Total Poser / Elitist / Hero / Chad

SFJackBauer

SFJackBauer

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Maverick, in the line you quoted I was speculating about the real F-15. I am not that brain-damaged (yet??) to contradict myself in the same single post :)

 

Actually, from what I have verified, the real bird does not even allow its pilot to select the PRF directly. Perhaps we are able to do it since in the real Flanker it is available (is it?), and since all fighters share a common framework this ended up available in the F-15 too.

 

Anyway, to underline my point, this should be at least explained in the manual, because I got slapped in the face after a newbie said to me "I read the manual and it isn't there." If we can't refer newbies to the manual, then what would we do?

104th_Maverick

104th_Maverick

Posted
Posted

Ahh sorry, that was lost on me :)

 

AFAIK you are correct indeed then, most Western Pilots have no control over their PRF settings, its all done automatically depending on what the range and aspect is.

 

I remember being totally shocked after talking with an F/A-18E pilot on TeamSpeak and he didn't know what PRF even was lol :D

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104th Phoenix Wing Commander / Total Poser / Elitist / Hero / Chad

steve65

steve65

Posted
Posted
;2272742']Ahh sorry, that was lost on me :)

 

AFAIK you are correct indeed then, most Western Pilots have no control over their PRF settings, its all done automatically depending on what the range and aspect is.

 

I remember being totally shocked after talking with an F/A-18E pilot on TeamSpeak and he didn't know what PRF even was lol :D

 

So is it possible to model this automatic prf in dcs or are there game limitations?:book:

GGTharos

GGTharos

Posted
Posted

That's an interesting statement given that the PRF controls are pretty much in your face in the real C and E birds.

 

Actually, from what I have verified, the real bird does not even allow its pilot to select the PRF directly. Perhaps we are able to do it since in the real Flanker it is available (is it?), and since all fighters share a common framework this ended up available in the F-15 too.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

GGTharos

GGTharos

Posted
Posted
So is it possible to model this automatic prf in dcs or are there game limitations?:book:

 

Not likely to happen without ASM level avionics.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Frostie

Frostie

Posted
Posted

Actually, from what I have verified, the real bird does not even allow its pilot to select the PRF directly. Perhaps we are able to do it since in the real Flanker it is available (is it?), and since all fighters share a common framework this ended up available in the F-15 too.

http://www.f15sim.com/images/left_console_new.jpg

 

Check the two images in the top right for APG-70 and APG63V(1), you will notice selector positions for HI, MED and INLV.

You will also find the same on the panel in DCS.

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AussieGhost789

AussieGhost789

Posted
Posted

Advantages of manual over auto? I've always left it on automatic and I've never had any problems with re acquiring the contact when switching from RWS to TWS in the F-15. Also haven't really had issues with acquiring and tracking with the Su-27 with it on auto.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

GGTharos

GGTharos

Posted
Posted (edited)

All APG-63 versions are automated by default. They are meant to be highly automated, the switch settings are there in RL to help the pilot deal with unexpected circumstances.

 

In game, HPRF gets you best has on range, MPRF best tail on range, ILV something in between - that last is not right but we live with it.

Edited by GGTharos

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

lunaticfringe

lunaticfringe

Posted
Posted
;2272742']I remember being totally shocked after talking with an F/A-18E pilot on TeamSpeak and he didn't know what PRF even was lol :D

 

If he's flown all APG-79 birds, it wouldn't matter if he knew the difference or not. ;)

Cali

Cali

Posted
Posted
http://www.f15sim.com/images/left_console_new.jpg

 

Check the two images in the top right for APG-70 and APG63V(1), you will notice selector positions for HI, MED and INLV.

You will also find the same on the panel in DCS.

 

You bet me to it, I was sure I saw that panel and have a picture of it when we had a F-15E parked in our hangar. I don't have a picture of the different panels in the pit, but I do have this one. The other ones are back on my home computer, 7,000 miles away.

 

9ooflx292najn5o7g.jpg

 

obqvcxv1998a9vp7g.jpg

i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED

 

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